Forums - Theory / composition / technique
Subject: Quantisation Theory
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Original Message 1/47 29-Oct-02 @ 03:50 PM - Quantisation Theory
As in if I quantise my drum track to 16b in logic, then do I quantise my bass to 16b?
Also I find that if I quantise my drums to 16b and then try a quantisation of say 16c/16d for the percussion, it sound messy and stilted!
Is every thing supposed to be on the same swing or not?
Message 2/47 29-Oct-02 @ 05:46 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 3/47 29-Oct-02 @ 07:18 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
psylichon
Message 4/47 30-Oct-02 @ 09:58 AM - RE: Quantisation Theory
The thing is I find the whole "groove" a bit of a mystery. I know that velocity is hugely important to groove and I do you this alot.
Generally, stuff that falls on a 1/4 or 1/8 note I leave dead on the beat. Then stuff like hats and perc that fall on the 2 or 4 16th note I put a swing on. This tends to be a 16b swing (ie 21 ticks).
However, is there not a drumming rule? Like I would say the hats are what should be what is "shaking" the most so I would of thought that you would have to put this on the most swing, like say 16d in Logic. Then the stuff like perc would want to be a bit tighter and solid so I would think that this should be a bit tighter so maybe a 16b. However, this don't work so my theory is obviously wrong.
ALso what do you mean about "the bass playing empathicaly with the drums" K?
Also, listening to my favorite tunes, it seems that the snares are coming in earlier a bit. Even the records that I have that are 125 BPM seem alot faster and I pressume this is down to pro programming. There is a real energy and a kind of "push-pull" thing going on.
Maybe I'm just hearing pumping compression but I am sure there is more to a grooving drum track then a punping stereo compressor.
Any more help would be greatly appreciated.
Message 5/47 30-Oct-02 @ 02:35 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
whatever... it has to gel musicaly feel-wise... so use your ears
dont think flinging some preset quantise on stuff will make a good beat or groove for you is what we are saying i think...
Message 6/47 30-Oct-02 @ 09:15 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 7/47 30-Oct-02 @ 11:12 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Whoops.
Message 8/47 31-Oct-02 @ 09:52 AM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 9/47 31-Oct-02 @ 05:10 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
I meant, *I* do that, and maybe I shouldn't.
But I probably will.
Message 10/47 31-Oct-02 @ 05:23 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
you come down HARD on the ONE and
syncopate everything in between. wheee!
Message 11/47 31-Oct-02 @ 05:35 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
yes, you can put things on ANY beat in a bar, 16th, 8th, whatever - BUt, if you had say a hat swinging at a quantise of say 16D (in Logic) and then your bassline had some notes offbeat but NOT in 16D swing, they will clash badly... you cant mix swings basicaly (or it'd be hard to make it work)
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 12/47 31-Oct-02 @ 10:01 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 13/47 31-Oct-02 @ 11:28 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
You mean as in a "lets get acquainted with swing" mixer type thing?
Message 14/47 02-Nov-02 @ 06:38 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
thats exactly what i used to do. trust xoxos, he knows.
Message 16/47 29-Nov-02 @ 04:21 AM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 17/47 29-Nov-02 @ 09:01 AM - RE: Quantisation Theory
psy
Message 18/47 03-Dec-02 @ 11:22 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Swing came from Jazz, and Jazz is basically the foundation of most dance genres (house, d&b, breakz).
Message 19/47 04-Dec-02 @ 07:26 AM - RE: Quantisation Theory
psy
Message 20/47 05-Dec-02 @ 07:49 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
I work with "essex" so i know that's what he means. But his melodies DO swing, and the basslines often do... just not the beats, and I agree, for that brand of music.
You could have been clearer, yo! hehehe
That said, swing is integral to the groove in downtempo, house etc... stuff meant to be more soulfull... (friggin adjectives!)
e
Message 21/47 06-Dec-02 @ 03:45 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 22/47 06-Dec-02 @ 05:27 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
e
Message 23/47 06-Dec-02 @ 05:38 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 24/47 06-Dec-02 @ 08:55 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
to answer your question: quantise if it fit the groove of the track. if it doesnt, dont. thats the only rule.
Message 27/47 09-Dec-02 @ 09:37 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Ciao.
Message 28/47 10-Dec-02 @ 08:35 AM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 29/47 10-Dec-02 @ 05:34 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
e
Message 30/47 11-Dec-02 @ 09:50 AM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 31/47 11-Dec-02 @ 11:59 AM - RE: Quantisation Theory
quantize isn't sticking every note to exactly 16ths (that's a guitarists/drummers definition), it's putting notes to a predefined rhythmic subposition. which could be swung, straight, laidback snare playing etc.
Message 32/47 11-Dec-02 @ 12:02 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Or are we talking strict, bang on 16th note positions?
Message 33/47 11-Dec-02 @ 06:52 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
I'm talking bang on 16th note position. And groove is often dictated more by the bassline working with the drums. It's a succession of notes... working with a beat. Swing works, and I'm not knocking it, but I'm saying that it's not necesarry for a groove to swing to be groovy! Sigh...
e
Message 34/47 11-Dec-02 @ 07:59 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
all those tracks sucked!
Message 35/47 12-Dec-02 @ 02:24 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 36/47 12-Dec-02 @ 03:37 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 37/47 12-Dec-02 @ 05:44 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
I just made a track at 113... with some pretty deep funk (I think)... bassline combined with the beat... I'll post a piece of it tomorrow and you can make your own opinion.
e
Message 38/47 12-Dec-02 @ 09:21 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Message 41/47 13-Dec-02 @ 01:55 AM - RE: Quantisation Theory
From: Steve Webster
Web: no weblink
Date: 12-dec-02 - 02:24 pm
File?: no file added
errata, what bpm are your tracks? Mine are always at 128 bpm"
always?
damn bro..now THAT would be BORING
Message 42/47 13-Dec-02 @ 09:51 AM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Xoxos, if you re-arrange and re-jig the word ACID, you get A DIC. :-)
Influx, sorry but I only have enough skills to make house. Sorry for being boring. I don't pretend to have the talent to make raw songs, broken beat, nu skool breaks or funk. :-)
Message 43/47 13-Dec-02 @ 02:52 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
psy
Message 44/47 13-Dec-02 @ 03:27 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
you think i suck, you ought to look at 'normal' people from my perspectives!
Message 45/47 13-Dec-02 @ 08:16 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
As I've said before... I'm a lazy bastard! Damn, sound forge only does MP3 at 64... still too high for good ol' DT... edited the track down to 3 and a half minutes, still too big for DT!
I will, when I get home, post a "snippet" over the weekend!
my apologies.
Yeah, house does pretty much stay i the 120's and most people like it in the upper 20's so give and take afe BPM 128 sounds right!
House is an art! It CAN be easy to do passable music when it's different and strange. But a great house track has to be dependable, simply and completely FANTASTIC... takes skills...
e
Message 46/47 01-Jan-03 @ 10:28 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
This is some pretty harsh pidgeonholing for a such a wide genre.
"House is an art! It CAN be easy to do passable music when it's different and strange. But a great house track has to be dependable, simply and completely FANTASTIC... takes skills... "
And that's only for house, yea. How about pop? Is pop art?
Message 47/47 02-Jan-03 @ 08:22 PM - RE: Quantisation Theory
Did I say anything about my comment being exclusive to house? We were talking about house so i made a comment about house... in contrast to strange, experimental music (which I think there's a mighty profusion of that is mediocre)... I think House is POP. And the same goes. I have a tremendous amount of respect for people that can make GOOD pop music... Paul Simon comes to mind... not always very clever and artistic but just DAMNED fine tunes!
Hmmm... Mozart, for that matter! Hehehe
PS: Thanks for picking my post apart. I'm always feel special when people pay me so much attention.
e
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