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Subject: something interesting from waldorf


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Original Message 1/29             15-Jan-03  @  06:43 PM   -   something interesting from waldorf

nomad

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take a look at this...

http://www.waldorf-music.com/afb/



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Message 2/29             15-Jan-03  @  07:42 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

milan

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whoooaaaaaaa baybeeee!!! it was about bloody TIME people started thinking like that! YES!

oh and, i'm raving about the concept if you're wondering. no idea if i'd actually want to own the thing, but concept-wise i think this is the was to go. i remember this conversation from a while ago about why dont synth manufacturers build compact analog boxes with digital control. and now- hey! look whats this right here  



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Message 3/29             15-Jan-03  @  11:36 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

horizens

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[image file]


that's pretty damn cool. don't know if i would
buy one, but it's rad that companies are going
to start doing this.



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Message 4/29             16-Jan-03  @  12:21 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

errata

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cool idea... I feel like a luddite, though. Soon they'll stop building hardware options!!!

e



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Message 5/29             16-Jan-03  @  07:41 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

horizens

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[image file]


too bad there are only lo pass filters. hi band
and a few more would've been killer.



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Message 6/29             16-Jan-03  @  08:27 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

milan

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yeah, thats what i thought too. its probably to keep the cost down and test the waters. wait for version 2.0   i wonder what this baby is gonna cost.



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Message 7/29             16-Jan-03  @  10:14 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Stefan

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The box contains the analog filters of the Q+.
So take the pricedifference between Q and Q+...

I don't think that it will be cheap.



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Message 8/29             16-Jan-03  @  10:35 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

milan

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yeah, me neither. but its a start in right direction. hehe... imagine a uQ or a mw as a vsti like that, eh   now *that* i'd buy immediately!



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Message 9/29             16-Jan-03  @  08:41 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

errata

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Yeah, but the Waldorf Bandpass filters are just incredible... How could they? It ain't right!

e



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Message 10/29             21-Jan-03  @  11:34 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

scrotalsack

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there's a lot more difference between the Q and Q+ than just the filters...
increased polyphony is the biggest, i would say. 16/32 voice versus variable up to 100 voice?

I would imagine pricewise this will go somewhere betweent the µQ and µQ keyboard, probably closer to the µQ. i can't imagine anyone would pay much more for it than that. it's a filter module, not a synth.... and its not like it costs a lot to implement usb 2.0 on things.



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Message 11/29             22-Jan-03  @  02:58 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Stefan

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I suppose around 2000 $...



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Message 12/29             24-Jan-03  @  09:20 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

scrotalsack

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$2 grand?
no frickin way... you can get a 32 voice Q for a litte more than that... there's no way that thing would be more than $1000.... seriously, no one would buy it if it was more than that.....



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Message 13/29             24-Jan-03  @  10:42 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Stefan

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I just calculated the price difference between expanded Q and Q+ because the content of the box IS the difference between Q and Q+ ;-)
I think that Waldorf aims to the professionals market where softsynth are on the march. The AFB might find it's place among the other expensive FX-Boxes like for example a Lexicon PCM81. This thing will be for those who pay 1700 $ for an RME ADI 8 DS AD/DA converter box etc, not for us poor home users ;-)



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Message 14/29             28-Jan-03  @  08:30 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Pongoid

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The thing I don't get though, is why drop an analog filter into a digital chain? You've got to convert from digital, back into analog, then into digital again...two conversions, two sets of interpolation, two sets of dithering, etc... ewww!!! Pain in the ass as far as I'm concerned. Fuck it, keep it simple.

$.02


Ape



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Message 15/29             30-Jan-03  @  04:09 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

nothingnewhere

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why dont they just make a two (switchable stereo or dual mono) filter box with a sequencer type interface (not software!@#) that clocks to midi. it could have both analog & digital ins/outs and still be cheap as hell. im with horizons too, needs to be more than just lp.



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Message 16/29             30-Jan-03  @  09:52 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

milan

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i think they already have two filter modules out? the 4-pole and x-pole or something?



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Message 17/29             30-Jan-03  @  11:39 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Stefan

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The AFB isn't a simple analog filterbox. You'll be able to modulate the filters from the envelopes, LFOs, Knobs of software synthesizeres that are prepared for it.



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Message 18/29             30-Jan-03  @  10:31 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

nothingnewhere

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the 4pole and xpole had lfos and maybe envs too i think.



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Message 19/29             03-Feb-03  @  08:11 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Conscience

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I'm with Ape...



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Message 20/29             04-Feb-03  @  12:00 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Stefan

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You have a software synthesizer with digital filters. Filter envelope, cutoff and resonance are programmed in a way that you get a nice filter sweep if you play a note. If you hold that note and play another not it will make a new sweep, same with every new note.
To be able to do this you need a filter per voice.
With theAFB you'll have aa anolog filter per (up to 16) voice(s).

How can you do that with an xpole or 4 pole ?



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Message 21/29             04-Feb-03  @  05:41 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Breakerbox

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i still think they should put out the pulse as a desktop unit with buncha knobs and midi sync for the lfos.



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Message 22/29             04-Feb-03  @  10:15 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Stefan

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LFO1 of the Pulse can be synchronized to midi clock.



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Message 23/29             08-Feb-03  @  09:36 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Pongoid

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What would make that unit REALLY cool, is if Waldorf offered a special OS upgrade, and modification for people who already own a Q to have it retro-fitted with maybe an umbilical or something so that one could by this unit, and upgrade their Q to a Q+. The only issue as far as I can tell, is finding the traces that need to be tapped into, and deciding on a socket, lock, and cabling type, and then just a small coding modification from the normal Q+ code. the modification operation itself would be VERY fast. No more than a few screws to open the case. Two to four minutes to locate, cut and resolder the correct traces. Five to ten minutes to alter the case, and install the new socket, and another two minutes to redo the screws. The OS upgrade (and maybe BOOT system) should take no more than a few minutes. Less than half an hour in total, including the unpack and repack of the unit. Waldorf could do it as same day service if they wanted to. Being able to upgrade your Q to a Q+ for under $700 would be VERY cool, and really nice customer relations. It's a thought. I'll ask Wolfram Franke, and couple others over there what they think of the idea.

Ape



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Message 24/29             14-Feb-03  @  10:36 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Pongoid

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Ok, so the message has been sent to Waldorf, which for those unaware, went public last month and is now available, if you want to buy into it. Now to wait and see what their reply will be.

Ape



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Message 25/29             24-Feb-03  @  07:20 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Pongoid

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After some correspondence with Joerg Heuttner about the idea of the AFB16 as a filter retrofit for the Q, I can see why it would be an impossibility to implement it per voice without a complete motherboard replacement, so it ain't happenin. Oh well, it was a thought.

Ape



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Message 26/29             26-Feb-03  @  08:23 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

scrotalsack

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yeah, as i was reading back through the
threads, it occurred to me, how is the analog
filter unit integrated into the Q+'s sound
engine... considering that the Q is essentially
a digital synth emulating analog circuitry,
integrating the analog filter unit would kind of
create the necessity to interface the analog
circuitry with the DSP algo's, and i imagine the
AFB is just merely a new application of the
technology developed there.

Has anyone seen the inside of a Q+? I
opened up my Q once a while back just for the
fun of it... really quite interesting what was
inside....



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Message 27/29             26-Feb-03  @  10:53 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

blacktrax

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[image file]


This is the additional filterboard of the Q+



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Message 28/29             27-Feb-03  @  11:03 PM     Edit: 28-Feb-03  |  12:39 AM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

Pongoid

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to integrate the analog filter, an extra set of ADACs had to be introduced into the filter section of the algorithm, which means essentially you digitally create an oscillator sound, then you have a choice to either A)convert it, then send it through the filter, then back into the filter router, then convert it and filter it again, and then to the amps and effects parts of the equation chain, or leaving it digital at all points in the routing. At either of the possible conversion points in the filter routing the signal can be left digital, and just filtered digitally instead. Implementing the filters per voice took a redesign in the entire board, not simply for space and allocation, but because of implementation per voice, and not just at the output. It was a royal pain in the ass to make this system as flexible as it is, so hats off to Waldorf for doing it the way they did, cuz it works.

The AFB could not be implemented this way as a retro fit for the Q/Q Rack, because you have to take the signal out of the CPU then send it back into it per voice to do what the Q+ does. That means and extra set of convertors in the chain from the outset of the signal generation.

Personally, I see the AFB16+ as a flop in the making. Retail is $2500 US. EEEEKKKK!!!!! For that price, spend the extra thousand, and get the 32 voice synth engine, nice keyboard, control surfaces, sequencer, and effects thrown in as well, if you're so desperate for the Waldorf VCF sound.


Ape



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Message 29/29             14-Mar-03  @  11:09 PM   -   RE: something interesting from waldorf

scrotalsack

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where did you read $2500 US????
flop in the making is right!!!!!



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