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Forums - Music techology
Subject: how loud?
Viewing all 16 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2
Original Message 1/16 13-Sep-07 @ 12:16 PM Edit: 13-Sep-07 | 12:19 PM - how loud should it be?
What is the loudness with you - as a listener - would be happy with? To me the -8 dB RMS levels in commercial pop are just ridiculous, I would be more happy with -11, but there is still too much being lost with that much of limiting.
Message 2/16 13-Sep-07 @ 03:01 PM - RE: how loud?
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I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 3/16 13-Sep-07 @ 07:02 PM - RE: how loud?
To put the question differently, do you know any recent stuff out there, that seems to be just right when it comes to the dynamics/loudness tradeoff (preferably similar stuff to what I usually make, ie. experimental/idm)
Message 4/16 13-Sep-07 @ 08:06 PM - RE: how loud?
bring it in line with some commercial stuff, but ive started to just do gentle limiting compression
stuff just to keep quiet bits quiet and retain depth, I hope it goes away soon coz its a stupid thing
thats just ego based, my tracks louder than yours, yeah but my dads tracks louder than your
loud track, butr theres this guy down the pub sezs hes made the loudest track in this spiral arm
ect.
As for good recent tunes that sound similar to yours ill have a look around to see if some
comparisons can be made, wierd thing is there r a lot of older stuff that sounds perfect and dont
sound to quiet.
I expect though someone will bring out a new plugin called "BIG UP YER MUSIC" which adds
160 db to the mix with extra bass more mid and more highs without overloading and everyone
will use that, maybe when we reach the wall we will get a reversal and end up with a new trend ,
mixes so quiet they do not light up the first bar/led of you amp/channel strip and new albums
called"The Sonics of Silence" so quiet you need a pre amp to your amp before you can here it,
all at 24bit mind you lol
Malk
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -
Message 5/16 13-Sep-07 @ 09:30 PM - RE: how loud?
new albums
called"The Sonics of Silence" so quiet you need a pre amp to your amp before you can here it,
all at 24bit mind you lol
Gentle limiting compression, hmmm, you could talk a ittle bit more about that I'm all ears!
(threshold, ratio, is it any kind of limiter/compressor combo, or just a limiter, is it multiband, etc...)
Message 6/16 14-Sep-07 @ 05:10 PM - RE: how loud?
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I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 7/16 18-Sep-07 @ 02:03 PM - RE: how loud?
of bass, mid and high, and it is possible to gentle squeeze stuff and sound ok, limiting well you
can use Logic pros adaptive limiter which allows scary amounts of limiting and you can get it
real loud.
But iam no mastering expert and your mix to start with really dictates what can be done after, its
funny simply knowledge makes better mixes, better mixes master better and mastered tracks
sound good if they retain some dynamics, but remember the average punter now listens to
compressed audio with reduced dynamic range, and most people dont give a rats arse how or
what was done to a track, just that they like it. I know people who would rather listen to their all in
one stereo with bass on full and the loudness button on, and if it distorts they luv it its percieved
as being louder better give me more.
Try some experiments to see how far you can go on making it louder some tracks work great,
others it totaly messes up, and remember pro mastering houses do it so much better but only if
the mix was perfect in the first place, home mixes rarely sound that much better unless you got
a perfect studio, just shows up the areas you need treat, ive heard stuff in the charts which has
been terribly recorded but it still sold loads!
Malk
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -
Message 8/16 18-Sep-07 @ 02:39 PM - RE: how loud?
sonalksis's compressor, best one mind you was psp vintage warmer plug it in turn the big knob
add bass and mid to taste off u go, great plugin.You can always limit after the psp as well if it will
take it.
will delete file Rags.
all gone
Malk
___________________________________
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -
Message 9/16 18-Sep-07 @ 02:40 PM - RE: how loud?
Malk
___________________________________
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -
Message 10/16 19-Sep-07 @ 06:49 PM - RE: how loud?
Don't worry about those files... and thanks for the props. Now I have experimented a little bit and Vintage Warmer 2 is very powerful indeed. The trick seems to be to get the ratio between compression and limiting right (and to set the time constants)... I was able to get very loud levels out of my stuff, on the other hand things still get 1-dimensional sooner or later, but that is lack of dynamics I guess...
Thing is I really liked about VW2 was how you can add nonlinear coloration to the individual frequency bands.
On the other hand think I prefer the sound of the Elephant, it sounds less "clippy", less fatiguing because it doesn't introduce any distortion. But it is only forgiving up to a point... and if you push it a little bit more the sound just collapses...
I have been playing around with multiband compression in the last few days, I won't dare to say I have mastered it, but I could get some pretty nice results with 5 bands. Somehow it seems like the multiband compression makes the life of the limiter easier, I guess it is the "dynamics reduction in two steps is always more transparent than in one step" thing...
Message 11/16 19-Sep-07 @ 07:45 PM - RE: how loud?
Message 12/16 25-Sep-07 @ 12:25 PM - RE: how loud?
compressor if iam honest is the one that 9 times out of 10 ruins the track, which is probably
inexpierience on my part coz if all it does id make it louder then sitck to limiting, but if you can
use it to keep bass ends thick and defined you can sink them into the mix and make them
smaller but still solid, so then you got some more room to adjust mid and high bands(by the way
start with only 3 bands coz thats hard enough to judge, more than that and you are running
before walking) now u can squeeze the mid and maybe reduce the highs, careful on the
compression coz sometimes it causes harshness, do all of this gentley and keep the master out
below overload, in fact leave some headroom , and if you got it right you might! have a smaller
detailed solid mix, that then will take some nice limiting/psp ect.
However as some of the masters of mastering say you need to to then make an equal volume
comparison ie the original track at 0dbs and the mastered track at 0dbs and if the mastered
version sounds better in several ways ,depth thickness,warmth and definition then cool but if it is
nothing but louder then you failed and u might as well have just limited it to the wall.
Malk
___________________________________
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -
Message 13/16 25-Sep-07 @ 12:30 PM - RE: how loud?
overdrive knob turned up can add a lot of bass to the track which needs to be kept under control
make sure it adds bass where you need it and back off a bit when your happy, bass plays tricks
on the brain and its amazing how much sounds ok when there is loads to much, take it right
back until it is just a shadow you will be surprised once your brain accepts this shadow of bass
compaired to the original that it still sounds better without being overblown fluffyness.
Phew
Malk
___________________________________
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -
Message 14/16 25-Sep-07 @ 12:30 PM - RE: how loud?
overdrive knob turned up can add a lot of bass to the track which needs to be kept under control
make sure it adds bass where you need it and back off a bit when your happy, bass plays tricks
on the brain and its amazing how much sounds ok when there is loads to much, take it right
back until it is just a shadow you will be surprised once your brain accepts this shadow of bass
compaired to the original that it still sounds better without being overblown fluffyness.
Phew
Malk
___________________________________
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -
Message 15/16 25-Sep-07 @ 01:09 PM - RE: how loud?
), but I treat the stuff with har-bal first, add some ~5-15% stereo widening (depending on the material), and then use whatever is neccesary to add loudness.The good thing with har-bal that it not only helps improving spectral balance, but makes everything sound more clear and defined by reducing frequency masking. It could be overdone of course, so half of the effort is to knwo where to stop adjusting
Another advantage is that one can almost absolutely eliminate any "peaks" in the frequency plot, ie. there will be no resonant frequencies "standing out" afterwards. It essentially does what multiband compression would do, only that it doesn't affect dynamics in any concievable way.
The bad thing is, if I treat the har-bal-ed stuff with just a limiter (to gain loudness) then it will get loud, but it will sound different than the stuff you usually hear elsewhere. I guess we are jut too used of the sound of bus compressors and multiband compresors etc. And this is where the VW2 comes really handy, because if you don't mess around with the bass and high knobs, it is pretty frequency-linear, I usually add about 3-4% compression (10-15% in some special cases.) The rest of the loudness comes from peak-limiting...
Elephant 2, yep, check that one out, it can start pumping if you push it too hard, but under normal circumstances it is very transparent, without any distortion (except with the "clip" algorythm, which does alias like the rest of the clippers, but in 4x oversampled mode it is still much nicer than the others...)
One neat trick is if you press the alt key while turning up the input, because then it will automatically turn down the output by the same amount so you can really hear how the dynamics is affected by the limiting.
Message 16/16 02-Oct-07 @ 11:40 PM - RE: how loud?
But please, won't anyone consider the kicks and snares? -12 is nice.
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