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Forums - Music techology
Subject: cubase or cakewalk
Viewing all 8 messages - View by pages of 10: 1
Original Message 1/8 19-May-97 @ 06:44 PM - cubase or cakewalk
which is better???
support your answer(capabilities)
support your answer(capabilities)
Message 2/8 19-May-97 @ 07:24 PM - RE: cubase or cakewalk
well...er mr /miss anonymous.....
Cakewalk pro audio is now at version 6....you get as standard...reverb, delay, eq's, 256 channel mixer,timestretch, etc etc etc...plus suppoert for multiple soundcards....it really is lookin like a total winner....
Cakewalk has an auto audio-file management system...just hit record & go.....no file naming etc etc...but yes, you can still simply import .wav files into the track at any point.
Cakewalk also has infinate undo facility, which is ...well you got to see it to believe it...you can step back like 30 or 40 edits....
also, cakewalk is FAR superior to cubase for controller data entry sysex entry etc
Cubase used to be my favourite...and for drums I still prefer cubase's drum map system, and the BOOT's to kik items around the grids in all edit windows.....BUT.....The audio always slips...then you have to set the track at Zero again.....File naming at each record is CRAP....only one undo is CRAP....but I like the drum map.....
Now I dunno about the new cubase 3.5....my friend has it, and it still loses the audio files timewise...they suddenly lag behind the midi track,and he's well pissed of after all the fiasco he's been thru with steinberg...like buying a DAL card for 600 bucks from the states only to find...NO , it doesn't work with cubase despite saying so in the manual...(It does now with version 3.5, but he had to wait a year!!)....but for the new version I'm not sure about what editing tools you get....Version3 gave none....absolutely sod all...not even a basic eq.....It seems steinberg want you to pay extra for adding audio editing tools....if it's the same with V3.5 then ...not good.....you should always get tools....now the new Cakewalk adds the lot...everything you could need....Cubase, ..Not sure...
So....er....Cakewalk seems to be coming of age.....I have to say, that over the last year, I've grown to like cakewalk the best, whereas when I first tried it, I didn't like it ..... The audio side of Cakewalk is very very good....I mean, add Cakewalk Pro Audio to a card like the new Event 8 output cards....phew !!....it's alot of power for little dosh....
In fact Cakewalk is becoming so powerful, it even seems like a competitor to an audio only programme like SAW+ now....
I think steinberg are too greedy, and have rested on their Atari/Mac laurels for too long..... I mean things like issueing a DEMO version of Wavelab, that has ALL the audio features dissabled !!!...I don't mean you cant save them...I mean, YOU CANT EVEN PROCESS THE AUDIO WITH THE FX TO HGEAR HOW THEY SOUND !!!!......well that to me is a sign of attitude....not good....
If they stuck cubase with a good FREE audio editing tools, then maybe yes...but all are having probs with audio slipping from the midi....plus no audio facilities.....it just isn't good enuff....
If you look at the near history of studio equiptment manufacturers....it doesn't take long for an established leader to lose out and become an also-ran......
Is that ok?.......
I dont think I could give up Cakewalk now....It's too good....and I never thought i'd be saying that,,...i actually phoned up the distributor, and gave the software a real slagging.....but it really started to pick up after the 32 bit version 5.1.....I'd say for all the features you get for the money...CAKEWALK RULEZ....(especially now you can get 8 20 bit seperate outs for only &£163 299 ($350)....!!!!!!!!
Cakewalk pro audio is now at version 6....you get as standard...reverb, delay, eq's, 256 channel mixer,timestretch, etc etc etc...plus suppoert for multiple soundcards....it really is lookin like a total winner....
Cakewalk has an auto audio-file management system...just hit record & go.....no file naming etc etc...but yes, you can still simply import .wav files into the track at any point.
Cakewalk also has infinate undo facility, which is ...well you got to see it to believe it...you can step back like 30 or 40 edits....
also, cakewalk is FAR superior to cubase for controller data entry sysex entry etc
Cubase used to be my favourite...and for drums I still prefer cubase's drum map system, and the BOOT's to kik items around the grids in all edit windows.....BUT.....The audio always slips...then you have to set the track at Zero again.....File naming at each record is CRAP....only one undo is CRAP....but I like the drum map.....
Now I dunno about the new cubase 3.5....my friend has it, and it still loses the audio files timewise...they suddenly lag behind the midi track,and he's well pissed of after all the fiasco he's been thru with steinberg...like buying a DAL card for 600 bucks from the states only to find...NO , it doesn't work with cubase despite saying so in the manual...(It does now with version 3.5, but he had to wait a year!!)....but for the new version I'm not sure about what editing tools you get....Version3 gave none....absolutely sod all...not even a basic eq.....It seems steinberg want you to pay extra for adding audio editing tools....if it's the same with V3.5 then ...not good.....you should always get tools....now the new Cakewalk adds the lot...everything you could need....Cubase, ..Not sure...
So....er....Cakewalk seems to be coming of age.....I have to say, that over the last year, I've grown to like cakewalk the best, whereas when I first tried it, I didn't like it ..... The audio side of Cakewalk is very very good....I mean, add Cakewalk Pro Audio to a card like the new Event 8 output cards....phew !!....it's alot of power for little dosh....
In fact Cakewalk is becoming so powerful, it even seems like a competitor to an audio only programme like SAW+ now....
I think steinberg are too greedy, and have rested on their Atari/Mac laurels for too long..... I mean things like issueing a DEMO version of Wavelab, that has ALL the audio features dissabled !!!...I don't mean you cant save them...I mean, YOU CANT EVEN PROCESS THE AUDIO WITH THE FX TO HGEAR HOW THEY SOUND !!!!......well that to me is a sign of attitude....not good....
If they stuck cubase with a good FREE audio editing tools, then maybe yes...but all are having probs with audio slipping from the midi....plus no audio facilities.....it just isn't good enuff....
If you look at the near history of studio equiptment manufacturers....it doesn't take long for an established leader to lose out and become an also-ran......
Is that ok?.......
I dont think I could give up Cakewalk now....It's too good....and I never thought i'd be saying that,,...i actually phoned up the distributor, and gave the software a real slagging.....but it really started to pick up after the 32 bit version 5.1.....I'd say for all the features you get for the money...CAKEWALK RULEZ....(especially now you can get 8 20 bit seperate outs for only &£163 299 ($350)....!!!!!!!!
Message 3/8 19-May-97 @ 07:31 PM - RE: cubase or cakewalk
Oh yeah....that's £ 299 for an 8 output card....by the way, Cakewalk has unlimited audio tyracks, so you can use more than 8......
go to the review, and check out how the disk utility management looks after the audio data....
also, alot of Cakewalks bad reputation on the newsgroups is from people using old warez versions of 4.1 or earlier....which is 16 bit and was a tad unstable on 95...(or win 3.1)
go to the review, and check out how the disk utility management looks after the audio data....
also, alot of Cakewalks bad reputation on the newsgroups is from people using old warez versions of 4.1 or earlier....which is 16 bit and was a tad unstable on 95...(or win 3.1)
Message 4/8 20-May-97 @ 12:14 AM - RE: cubase or cakewalk
No problems losing audio timing with Cubase Audio XT
but I'm still cheesed off (exceedingly) with Steinberg.
I bought XT essentially so that I could monitor the input
level. When I phoned Steinberg at Harman Audio to find
out what they thought of the Pinnacle, they said there
was no point in having XT unless I bought something
like an Audiomedia III. £799 spent, I thought this isn't
bad except for the fact that to use the FX send and
returns, you either have to unplug the analogue in/outs
and plug them into an external FX processor or purchase
an extremely expensive SP/DIF compatible thing. Enter
my well meaning music shop manager. "Buy Wavelab
1.5, and your audio stays in the digital domain for a
quarter of the price (£325)." "Excellent," I said and off I
went.
Now it turns out that because the AMIII has special
drivers not recognized by Windows, Wavelab, even with the pointless half-duplex Windows wave driver
available from Digidesign/Avid, cannot use the card
while XT is running. To process audio recorded in XT,
you have to close it down and launch Wavelab. Why?
When I phoned Steinberg, they said, "Install the
AMIII_DSP.DLL driver in the Windows system directory."
I told them that this was not a Windows compatible driver
to which they replied, "Install the AMIII etc" as if they
knew what I was talking about. Today, I phoned to ask
if the new Korg 12/12 would work, i.e., is there any point
in owning XT with this card and if so does it use windows
drivers in XT as well as Wavelab 1.5. "Yes" they said so
I phoned Korg. The friendly and helpful lady wasn't that
sure but thought that the card was only compatible with
the Mac platform as she understood the question about
Windows to mean I had a PC. Why didn't Steinberg
mention this. Perhaps they don't have a clue.
Anyway, the upshot is that I've spent £700 on XT, £699
on the AMIII and £325 on Wavelab 1.5 at least one of
which appears to have been a waste of money. The
only way that I can see to cut my losses is to get rid of
the AMIII and replace it with a Windows driven card. I
can't seem to find the site but I seem to remember
reading that the Terratec EWS64 XT card is on
Steinberg's XT recommended list; perhaps someone
could confirm or recommend an alternative.
One last thing. Since VST will be available for the PC
in August, I asked the aforementioned Steinberg rep
whether Wavelab would become obsolete. He replied,
"Although VST is essentially an effects rack with
plug-ins like Wavelab, Wavelab 1.5 will do a better job."
So, what's the point in VST?
but I'm still cheesed off (exceedingly) with Steinberg.
I bought XT essentially so that I could monitor the input
level. When I phoned Steinberg at Harman Audio to find
out what they thought of the Pinnacle, they said there
was no point in having XT unless I bought something
like an Audiomedia III. £799 spent, I thought this isn't
bad except for the fact that to use the FX send and
returns, you either have to unplug the analogue in/outs
and plug them into an external FX processor or purchase
an extremely expensive SP/DIF compatible thing. Enter
my well meaning music shop manager. "Buy Wavelab
1.5, and your audio stays in the digital domain for a
quarter of the price (£325)." "Excellent," I said and off I
went.
Now it turns out that because the AMIII has special
drivers not recognized by Windows, Wavelab, even with the pointless half-duplex Windows wave driver
available from Digidesign/Avid, cannot use the card
while XT is running. To process audio recorded in XT,
you have to close it down and launch Wavelab. Why?
When I phoned Steinberg, they said, "Install the
AMIII_DSP.DLL driver in the Windows system directory."
I told them that this was not a Windows compatible driver
to which they replied, "Install the AMIII etc" as if they
knew what I was talking about. Today, I phoned to ask
if the new Korg 12/12 would work, i.e., is there any point
in owning XT with this card and if so does it use windows
drivers in XT as well as Wavelab 1.5. "Yes" they said so
I phoned Korg. The friendly and helpful lady wasn't that
sure but thought that the card was only compatible with
the Mac platform as she understood the question about
Windows to mean I had a PC. Why didn't Steinberg
mention this. Perhaps they don't have a clue.
Anyway, the upshot is that I've spent £700 on XT, £699
on the AMIII and £325 on Wavelab 1.5 at least one of
which appears to have been a waste of money. The
only way that I can see to cut my losses is to get rid of
the AMIII and replace it with a Windows driven card. I
can't seem to find the site but I seem to remember
reading that the Terratec EWS64 XT card is on
Steinberg's XT recommended list; perhaps someone
could confirm or recommend an alternative.
One last thing. Since VST will be available for the PC
in August, I asked the aforementioned Steinberg rep
whether Wavelab would become obsolete. He replied,
"Although VST is essentially an effects rack with
plug-ins like Wavelab, Wavelab 1.5 will do a better job."
So, what's the point in VST?
Message 5/8 20-May-97 @ 08:52 AM - RE: cubase or cakewalk
well...essentially, this is a similar sort of charade my friend encountered with his system...over a period of a year he went through 3 different copies of Cubase Audio (the full blown XT version)....eventually after sending 2 guys over from the dealer, they still couldn't get it working...
Next, they changed the Cubase Audio for Cubase 3.5.....But he still has problems with the audio slipping behind the midi.....
As I said....Steinberg can be a bit dodgy....but this doesn't reflect upon the staff at the UK distributors as they have always been friendly and helpful,.....This is more a company thing......
Cubase aint keeping up......or...Steinberg still think Cubase has such a reputation that it's ok to sell the audio processing side of Steinberg products seperately for another 200 or so quid.....
As for the Korg card.....the guy at Korg reckon that PC's are shite, and it isn't worth their while releasing windows drivers...unless they had a wharehouse full of cards they needed to "Get rid of "....I was told I should buy a Mac...(hah hah hah !!!)....yeah...do what the music magazines tell ya, and you'll waste your whole budget on a pair of "Studio" speakers and a "studio" amp !!...
I feel real sorry for you dude, cos it seems to me that you just have been unlucky with the timing of your purchases.....Why spend 350 quid on wavelab, when Cakewalk V6 has a complete suite of DSP fx for free.....also, Audiomedia is now looking totally overpriced....Sorry, but we're about to see the same revolution in hardware with the PC platform as we did with cheap multitracks & digital FX back in the early 80's.....
I believe that steinberg are giving the VST package away FREE with any standard cubase purchased after June, so maybe they are trying to keep up with Cakewalk there....
I reckon you spent about 1900 quid all told for the software & card, but in 4 weeks you could get Cakewalk V6 and the Event Gina card all for a total of about 800 quid...(thats 8 analog outs + s/pdif on the card, and as I said total audio toolkit in Cakewalk)...
Also, wavelab doesn't contain the all FX that you get with VST it's totally different....The VST stuff is supposed to be realtime....they act like pluggins...the Wavelab is a processing programme....You can actually use any PC wave editor with Cubase.....you simply assign it to cubase as the dedicated editor, then if you click to edit some audio, it automatically opens the linked programme....(only cos Cubase aint got any processing tools)
All I can say is,,....read this site regularly, and save a bucketful of dosh....READ ABOUT THE EVENT CARDS...(8 X 20 bit outputs starting at 300 quid !!!compatible with any PC audio & midi software).....read the software reviews.....and mail me....
The real reason for all this stuff is....The shops don't really know alot...or maybe the boss does, but the poorly paid staff are not usually PC literate.....so everyone says...Macs are the only thing to get...audiomedia is the best...cubase is the best...why???.....cos they can unpack it....plug it in...and it works.....PC's do require a little work...but the difference is...when someone buys a Mac system, they usually use it for ONLY music...but yer average PC person is also trying to run graphics, modem & internet software, games, and any crap they can load into the PC....I say..."OI !!...NO !!!!!.....PC's are now SO cheap, that you can use them as a dedicated studio tool.....
Next, they changed the Cubase Audio for Cubase 3.5.....But he still has problems with the audio slipping behind the midi.....
As I said....Steinberg can be a bit dodgy....but this doesn't reflect upon the staff at the UK distributors as they have always been friendly and helpful,.....This is more a company thing......
Cubase aint keeping up......or...Steinberg still think Cubase has such a reputation that it's ok to sell the audio processing side of Steinberg products seperately for another 200 or so quid.....
As for the Korg card.....the guy at Korg reckon that PC's are shite, and it isn't worth their while releasing windows drivers...unless they had a wharehouse full of cards they needed to "Get rid of "....I was told I should buy a Mac...(hah hah hah !!!)....yeah...do what the music magazines tell ya, and you'll waste your whole budget on a pair of "Studio" speakers and a "studio" amp !!...
I feel real sorry for you dude, cos it seems to me that you just have been unlucky with the timing of your purchases.....Why spend 350 quid on wavelab, when Cakewalk V6 has a complete suite of DSP fx for free.....also, Audiomedia is now looking totally overpriced....Sorry, but we're about to see the same revolution in hardware with the PC platform as we did with cheap multitracks & digital FX back in the early 80's.....
I believe that steinberg are giving the VST package away FREE with any standard cubase purchased after June, so maybe they are trying to keep up with Cakewalk there....
I reckon you spent about 1900 quid all told for the software & card, but in 4 weeks you could get Cakewalk V6 and the Event Gina card all for a total of about 800 quid...(thats 8 analog outs + s/pdif on the card, and as I said total audio toolkit in Cakewalk)...
Also, wavelab doesn't contain the all FX that you get with VST it's totally different....The VST stuff is supposed to be realtime....they act like pluggins...the Wavelab is a processing programme....You can actually use any PC wave editor with Cubase.....you simply assign it to cubase as the dedicated editor, then if you click to edit some audio, it automatically opens the linked programme....(only cos Cubase aint got any processing tools)
All I can say is,,....read this site regularly, and save a bucketful of dosh....READ ABOUT THE EVENT CARDS...(8 X 20 bit outputs starting at 300 quid !!!compatible with any PC audio & midi software).....read the software reviews.....and mail me....
The real reason for all this stuff is....The shops don't really know alot...or maybe the boss does, but the poorly paid staff are not usually PC literate.....so everyone says...Macs are the only thing to get...audiomedia is the best...cubase is the best...why???.....cos they can unpack it....plug it in...and it works.....PC's do require a little work...but the difference is...when someone buys a Mac system, they usually use it for ONLY music...but yer average PC person is also trying to run graphics, modem & internet software, games, and any crap they can load into the PC....I say..."OI !!...NO !!!!!.....PC's are now SO cheap, that you can use them as a dedicated studio tool.....
Message 6/8 20-May-97 @ 10:17 AM - RE: cubase or cakewalk
OK here's the WORD from Steinberg.....
VST will be released this month for the pc.....anyone who purchased standard Cubase after FEB 1st 97 will get a free VST package upon release...all others must pay for the update.....
I still think Cakewalk's a better programme tho'....If only it had a grid layout like cubase for the drum editing....
VST will be released this month for the pc.....anyone who purchased standard Cubase after FEB 1st 97 will get a free VST package upon release...all others must pay for the update.....
I still think Cakewalk's a better programme tho'....If only it had a grid layout like cubase for the drum editing....
Message 7/8 20-May-97 @ 10:20 AM - RE: cubase or cakewalk
Also....Steinberg reckon Cubase will never support multiple soundcards....but it will support some multi-out PCI cards....
Message 8/8 20-May-97 @ 01:17 PM - RE: cubase or cakewalk
Thanks for the speedy reply to many questions.
Fortunately (possibly), I did purchase XT after THE date
and will be getting VST free.
I was kind of brought up with Steinberg, Pro 24 for the
Atari, so Cubase was more of a progression than a
choice. Phrases like, "industry standard" were
believable as I done a lot of good work with the Atari. I
changed to the PC for reasons you mentioned; my wife
needed a computer as well and at the time we couldn't
justify buying one each.
I think if I had the choice I would probably go for
Cakewalk but like you I appreciate the Steinberg's drum
edit page; even Pro 24 had that. Unfortunately I do not,
so I'm going to have to consider a different card. I'll
have a look at the one you mentioned and try to find out
a bit more about the Terratec as sampling would be a
useful addition if its not just a Pinnacle in disguise.
Thanks again.
Fortunately (possibly), I did purchase XT after THE date
and will be getting VST free.
I was kind of brought up with Steinberg, Pro 24 for the
Atari, so Cubase was more of a progression than a
choice. Phrases like, "industry standard" were
believable as I done a lot of good work with the Atari. I
changed to the PC for reasons you mentioned; my wife
needed a computer as well and at the time we couldn't
justify buying one each.
I think if I had the choice I would probably go for
Cakewalk but like you I appreciate the Steinberg's drum
edit page; even Pro 24 had that. Unfortunately I do not,
so I'm going to have to consider a different card. I'll
have a look at the one you mentioned and try to find out
a bit more about the Terratec as sampling would be a
useful addition if its not just a Pinnacle in disguise.
Thanks again.
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