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Forums - Drums / rhythms / programming
Subject: that Maasive timo groove
Original Message 1/18 08-Jan-01 @ 12:02 AM - that Maasive timo groove
i'm trying to get my drums and percussion to get that wet, funk groove present in tracks by people like timo maas, jark prongo, peace division and the like. but, my tracks are only slightly funky, without the big swing these tracks have. i've tried using the swing settings, setting my dbx comp to 'suck' the sound (fast release, slow attacks, 6:1+), but i can't do it, it sounds stompy, not deep and grooved. is it eq? setting the groove up in a matrix editor (i use logic)? compression? resonance? aaaaaaargh, it's really pissing me off! I have the usual set up (samp, mac, logic audio, comp, mackie desk)m so i don't think i'm missing stuff, just missing a trick somewhere.... go on, lend a hand!!
Message 2/18 08-Jan-01 @ 08:12 AM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
You want the Timo Maas sound? Get the Maasifier then, only 199£ + VAT.
Seriously... there is no magic trick that all the pros use to get that pro sound. It's about having years of experience, loads of talent and hopefully a studio that doesn't limit you. Especially with things like "groove" or "funk" or "swing" that can't really be measured.
Instead of looking for the magic trick you should look how the different sounds, rhythms and melodies interact. The groove is often about the way all the drums and the bass work together. A little bit of swing quantization will help but personally I prefer to just place the notes where I want them to be, instead of letting the computer move them about to create an artificial groove. Having a few channels worth of decent eq and compression will also help a lot, so that you have loads of control over the dynamics of the groove. 4 channels of compression should be enough, one for the kick, one for the snare, one for the hats and one for the bass. The real trick to compression (imho at least) is to eq the sounds correctly before and after the compression.
Hmm, that doesn't help much I suppose. I'm way too tired to do this.
Seriously... there is no magic trick that all the pros use to get that pro sound. It's about having years of experience, loads of talent and hopefully a studio that doesn't limit you. Especially with things like "groove" or "funk" or "swing" that can't really be measured.
Instead of looking for the magic trick you should look how the different sounds, rhythms and melodies interact. The groove is often about the way all the drums and the bass work together. A little bit of swing quantization will help but personally I prefer to just place the notes where I want them to be, instead of letting the computer move them about to create an artificial groove. Having a few channels worth of decent eq and compression will also help a lot, so that you have loads of control over the dynamics of the groove. 4 channels of compression should be enough, one for the kick, one for the snare, one for the hats and one for the bass. The real trick to compression (imho at least) is to eq the sounds correctly before and after the compression.
Hmm, that doesn't help much I suppose. I'm way too tired to do this.
Message 3/18 11-Jan-01 @ 10:48 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
Try experiementing with the swing function a bit more. Heavy swing allows you to get a drum hit just before the beat. The production things are all great but won't help at all if it doesn't groove first. You could try recording a section of the track into VST/Logic and then using the EQ to narrow down on different parts of the groove and program a drum pattern along side it.
Message 4/18 18-Jan-01 @ 12:58 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
What about groove templates?
I havn't really spent much time, but if you sample a few bars worth and then bring the wave into logic, you can create a groove template. This is a midy file that you can drop onto any track, it will include velo data as well as all that slight positional data that is apparently so essential (fuck if I get even an ounce of what really makes groove groove) to grooven. If you've the chance, please let us know what happens.
I havn't really spent much time, but if you sample a few bars worth and then bring the wave into logic, you can create a groove template. This is a midy file that you can drop onto any track, it will include velo data as well as all that slight positional data that is apparently so essential (fuck if I get even an ounce of what really makes groove groove) to grooven. If you've the chance, please let us know what happens.
Message 5/18 19-Jan-01 @ 10:13 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
How can you adjust the 'swing-faktor' in VST?? Is there anything like a swing-faktor in VST???
Message 6/18 20-Jan-01 @ 08:09 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
I agree with teemu about finding your "timo" groove. Technical is one thing, but sound interaction is another. Lay your sounds out so all of them create another, at least use that to try to get your "stomp" out of the sound. Your sounds have to follow each other, so just experiment and fuck with your swing settings =)
Message 7/18 28-Jan-01 @ 10:28 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
I've heard that if you're writing funky house type stuff...70% swing is normal to get the groove going well...try using a compressor like an FX unit..I've got an Alesis 3630 and I use it like teemu said..send the signal down to an auxiliary pot and use it on at least the bass drum, snare drum etc....then it'll bring out that in-and-out more pumping sound....like Peace Division...if you listen to that track they did called 'Feel My Drums'....especially the flip which is one of the best tech/house tunes I've ever heard....they have their own style of using compression...
It kind of annoys me how compression adds that little sparkle of professionalism to your tune because it takes you ages to figure it out...itmakes it suitable for an overall sound system...
It kind of annoys me how compression adds that little sparkle of professionalism to your tune because it takes you ages to figure it out...itmakes it suitable for an overall sound system...
Message 8/18 30-Jan-01 @ 11:39 AM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
i had similar problems. what are the rules for swing settings. ie. what sounds do you apply them to?
if you have kick, snare, hats, claps, etc. what sounds receive the swing treatment. this is an essential question i've wondered for ages.
help resolve
cheers
if you have kick, snare, hats, claps, etc. what sounds receive the swing treatment. this is an essential question i've wondered for ages.
help resolve
cheers
Message 9/18 31-Jan-01 @ 06:51 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
mostly kicks and hats I think..but I'm still figuring it out myslef so I could'nt give you too much info
Message 10/18 31-Jan-01 @ 10:37 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
regarding swing...i think everything is fair game. i think what's more important is where any particular sound falls within a beat rather than what voice that sound is. in sixteenths, basically anything that falls on the first and third division within each beat (if using standard 96 parts per quarter note, that would be for any notes that land on 24 or 72 within the beat). i used to think to just add swing to hats but i was messing with my ER1 and started using the swing function and then realized that that box adds swing to everything, even kiks, if you originally place them at those 24/96 and 72/96 positions. and it sounds damn good too! ER1 definitely has the funk wired into it :-)
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