Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: multiband compression woes
Original Message 1/11 31-May-01 @ 06:24 PM - multiband compression woes
I'm trying to use Steinbergs ME compressor (5 bands) to master a song, and I'm having some trouble....
it just seems to make a real mess of the sound unless I use it very, very slightly... maybe that's all this song needs, but I can't help but think there's something more I can get out of it.... but, I've played with it for hours and I'm not getting anywhere. right now, the overall effect on the mix is minimal.
even on low settings, the sound becomes "undefined", especially the snare drum... the snare loses all the crack and snap.. this particular snare sound has some high-freq elements to it, so I think that might be messing me up.... I think part of my problem is that I'm having a hard time finding out where to place the boundaries of the 5 compressor bands....
on heavy compression/boost settings, everything turns to mush, even though a particular band on SOLO seems might sound real snappy...
I was wondering if anyone had general advice on how to figure out what the bands should be... since this is a d&b song, I was trying to compress sub, kick, and snare on separate bands.. since the snare has some hi-freq stuff, I had to make the middle band very wide to avoid "blurring" it.... but then I lose the ability to selectively compress the other instruments in that band...
I use Waves L1 after the compression, if that matters...
any help is appreciated... thanks!!!
Message 2/11 31-May-01 @ 11:18 PM - RE: multiband compression woes
multiband doesnt mean that you can hit a specific sound, just a frequency range really.
everytime I hear someone talk about "mastering" I have this overwhelming urge to point out that there is a reason why there are places that specialize in that process
Message 3/11 01-Jun-01 @ 03:01 PM - RE: multiband compression woes
Message 4/11 02-Jun-01 @ 02:14 AM - RE: multiband compression woes
Message 5/11 02-Jun-01 @ 02:36 PM - RE: multiband compression woes
anyway, finalizers are meant for small studios who cant afford to send their stuff to masterdisk or someplace like that...
Message 6/11 02-Jun-01 @ 03:35 PM - RE: multiband compression woes
multiband compression isnt for fun!!... it isnt for tarting up a mix either!!... it is ONLY used to fix problems, the whole point of compressors used in this context is you SHOULDNT hear anything... it's pointless applying the compression until you can 'hear something' cos then youve gone to far.. if there's nothing to fix then you wont hear anything... thats the whole point...
the problem is, most people llsten to their stuff, and try to compare it to mastered commercial CD's most of which have had the loudness driven up to ludicrous levels removing any dynamic's at all in the ever-ending quest for 'instant-balls' - people get cd's from underground Brit artists and marvel at the depth of their CD's... simply, they work on the MUSIC, NOT trying to bang out something that sounds subjectively LOUDER & HOTTER than the competitors CD for cruddy FM airplay... it's a fucking plague to be honest nowadays cos everyone is just concerned about immeadiate loudness and impact...
So people get this idea that they have to fuck with a mix to 'make it better'... thats rubbish... if the track sound 'wrong' to you when played on all other peoples systems, then ask WHY it sounds rubbish?? - but dont ask WHY it doesnt sound like my CD's!!!!
make sure the eq & LOUD switch is flat when trying it on other peoples systems by the way - oh and NEVER EVER EVER mix on YOUR system with any eq or loudness switched In on your amp if you use a hi-fi amp that is -
ok... you try it on others' systems... is there too much bass?... or is the bass NOT consistant?.. is there sometimes peaks in the bass throwing the mix?.... then your mix is bass heavy OR the mix has peaks which exceed the overall bass DYNAMICS! - is there too much mid?... which bands?.. is it too sharp and trebly?.. again which bands?....
use eq to sort out these problems where the issue is the EQ itself NOT the dynamics... then you can use some enhancer mebbe to add a bit more sparkle to the whole mix etc.. but thats it... dont try to fix mix problems at the mastering point and DONT try to master your mixes destructively - always keep your master mix and a backup cos if you send it to a proper mastering house the last thing they want is YOUR attempt at mastering with compression so that they get a mix with everything fucked....
You say:
"even on low settings, the sound becomes "undefined", especially the snare drum... the snare loses all the crack and snap..
on heavy compression/boost settings, everything turns to mush, even though a particular band on SOLO seems might sound real snappy...
"
bravo!!!... now you're realising exactly what is wrong.... you're using compression where it's NOT required and totaly inapropriately cos THAT above is exactly what results.
what YOU need to do is first define WHAT is wrong with this mix if anything??... and ALSO define what exactly you are trying to acheive with this so-called 'mastering'???... tell us this first please -
if as you say: "I was trying to compress sub, kick, and snare on separate bands" - WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TRYING TO DO THAT FOR!!!?? - how on earth will that IMPROVE or in any way have any relevence to 'mastering' your track ? - is there something wrong with those elements ?...
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 7/11 02-Jun-01 @ 04:55 PM - RE: multiband compression woes
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 8/11 02-Jun-01 @ 05:04 PM - RE: multiband compression woes
an important thing you get when you have someone else master it is a set of ears that's hearing everything fresh, someone who's not so intimately and emotionally tied up in the creation of the thing. also someone who's very familiar with their own monitors and room.
again, what's possible to fix in the mix should be and not be left for mastering. and the better the mix, the less extreme the mastering needs to be with a better sounding result.
Message 9/11 03-Jun-01 @ 06:12 PM - RE: multiband compression woes
...I had been thinking that using the multicomp was something that was almost always done for mastering, so I was trying to get something out of it and do it myself.... doing the mastering myself sounds like my first mistake... not knowing what the hell I'm doing when I'm trying to master sounds like my second through fifth.
I kind of like the mix just through the L1... I am using it to limit the final signal, and it alone sounds good.... it just sounds like the mixdown I made, a little louder... that's nice!
in any case, I'm going to have it done by a pro, and see what that's all about, and see what they do, and what they say.... I'm hoping I can get a good price locally, but we'll see....
after listening to it in the car and on the home stereo, there are some EQ changes I want to make... I realized that I'm not real sure what the problems are with the mix.... I kind of like the dynamics the way they are, but (big but) I'm not objective anymore about it -- I see how that works now.
I hate to say it, but I always compare the levels and sound of my stuff to everything that's out there..... from mp3 to radio... I can't help it, but at least now I'm a little closer..
thanks all.
Message 10/11 03-Jun-01 @ 10:58 PM - RE: multiband compression woes
comparing a final mix to a commercial final mix is a little troubling because they DID have their stuff mastered (which seems to mean more and more MADE AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE)
if the kick is hittin to hard, you need to address THAT. if the snare is a little twangy, try knockin what, a little 2.5k out of it. But if you EQ, compress, etc, the main mix youre not addressing those individual sounds.
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