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Forums - Synths & synthesis
Subject: Karma or Virus? Advice needed
Original Message 1/36 20-Dec-01 @ 10:45 PM - Karma or Virus? Advice needed
Ryan Irwin
Posts: 1
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Im interested in purchasing one of these two synths because they are in the same price range. This will be my first synth and I am not sure if I need the features of the Karma workstation or just a straight up synth like the Virus. I am interested in the sonic possibilities and MIDI sequencing features of the Karma but if I am sequencing and sampling using Logic software would I be better suited for the Virus?
My main concern is sound quality, specifically bass lines for dance music but also Im looking to get as many sounds as possible from one synth. Does the Karma's MOSS expansion card come even close to the Virus in generating analog-like sounds? Also, which has better drum sounds?
Which would be better for interfacing with Logic sequencing and sampling software? I want to be able to play with samples using the keyboard. Also, which would be better suited for use with a 24bit/96khz sound card?
I know that you can expand the sound sets on the Karma with the expansion cards. Virus I believe is not expandable. Is this a limitation?
Note that I will be using the synth for home studio production, not for live performance. I am looking for ease of use (i have never had a synth before), sound quality and possibilities, and ability to interface with Logic sequencing and sampling software. Any advice would be much appreciated.
My main concern is sound quality, specifically bass lines for dance music but also Im looking to get as many sounds as possible from one synth. Does the Karma's MOSS expansion card come even close to the Virus in generating analog-like sounds? Also, which has better drum sounds?
Which would be better for interfacing with Logic sequencing and sampling software? I want to be able to play with samples using the keyboard. Also, which would be better suited for use with a 24bit/96khz sound card?
I know that you can expand the sound sets on the Karma with the expansion cards. Virus I believe is not expandable. Is this a limitation?
Note that I will be using the synth for home studio production, not for live performance. I am looking for ease of use (i have never had a synth before), sound quality and possibilities, and ability to interface with Logic sequencing and sampling software. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Message 2/36 21-Dec-01 @ 11:01 AM - RE: Karma or Virus? Advice needed
i'd say make sure you paly them some more before purchasing one.. they're very different instruments..
the karma offers much less in terms of immediate control in patching compared to the virus, but covers a much greater range of sounds (i'd think..) a va is great for patching quickly withing the purely electronic palette.
the 'performance' features on the karma are extremely intriguing, but you might be paying for a feature you don't want so much for dance.. if you're working with say typical repeating rhythmic motifs in dance, you might not really be so much into having an algorithm that emulates complex natural harp strumming, et c.
i have a z1, which uses a larger (not sure how much) version of the moss system, and it offers very extensive analog modelling.. probably more complex than the virus. recently i've had the impression that some of my higher pitched analog stuff on the z has had a very samey quality in mixes.. which may be a result of the filter, which is pretty damn satisfying, but based on other user's comments, maybe not the best in the biz. or it may be just that i've been using similar patches on songs lately.. (true..) i've had it just under a year so i really don't feel i can make a definitive statement on this. definately i've found gobs and bogs of killer awesome awesome dance synth tones that would make a track, which very different qualities in the high end range.. okay, ignore everythnig i say..
of ocurse, if you don't just do dance, the karma is going to give you loads more sounds, so you can experiemnt with different types of music, which i have found i really enjoy. with the acoustic modeling on the moss board, i'd reckon the entire world is yours.
i don't think i could live w/o my z and a va though
best of both worlds..
does the karma have a digital output expansion board? still want to get one for my z.. the concept of say.. saxophone modeling with 0% signal noise is just enthralling.. from another planet sorta stuff.
anyone else want to comment? i've never played a karma, but from hearing it in tracks, it sounds like it's got a curious produced-sound, ie. everything that comes out of it sounds like it's been mastered, with the encompassing bass, warm mids and all.. just an impression i had.
the karma offers much less in terms of immediate control in patching compared to the virus, but covers a much greater range of sounds (i'd think..) a va is great for patching quickly withing the purely electronic palette.
the 'performance' features on the karma are extremely intriguing, but you might be paying for a feature you don't want so much for dance.. if you're working with say typical repeating rhythmic motifs in dance, you might not really be so much into having an algorithm that emulates complex natural harp strumming, et c.
i have a z1, which uses a larger (not sure how much) version of the moss system, and it offers very extensive analog modelling.. probably more complex than the virus. recently i've had the impression that some of my higher pitched analog stuff on the z has had a very samey quality in mixes.. which may be a result of the filter, which is pretty damn satisfying, but based on other user's comments, maybe not the best in the biz. or it may be just that i've been using similar patches on songs lately.. (true..) i've had it just under a year so i really don't feel i can make a definitive statement on this. definately i've found gobs and bogs of killer awesome awesome dance synth tones that would make a track, which very different qualities in the high end range.. okay, ignore everythnig i say..
of ocurse, if you don't just do dance, the karma is going to give you loads more sounds, so you can experiemnt with different types of music, which i have found i really enjoy. with the acoustic modeling on the moss board, i'd reckon the entire world is yours.
i don't think i could live w/o my z and a va though
best of both worlds..does the karma have a digital output expansion board? still want to get one for my z.. the concept of say.. saxophone modeling with 0% signal noise is just enthralling.. from another planet sorta stuff.
anyone else want to comment? i've never played a karma, but from hearing it in tracks, it sounds like it's got a curious produced-sound, ie. everything that comes out of it sounds like it's been mastered, with the encompassing bass, warm mids and all.. just an impression i had.
Message 3/36 21-Dec-01 @ 03:03 PM - RE: Karma or Virus? Advice needed
It's basically the same sound engine as the Triton. Like Xoxos said, you should play them both because they are extremely different synths with vastly different capabilities.
In terms of sheer analog sound, the Virus is going to win.
But you're not going to get realistic instruments, non-analog drum sounds, or a sequencer with the Virus.
-Craig
In terms of sheer analog sound, the Virus is going to win.
But you're not going to get realistic instruments, non-analog drum sounds, or a sequencer with the Virus.
-Craig
Message 5/36 19-Jan-02 @ 07:50 PM - RE: Karma or Virus? Advice needed
a.d.d.
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depending on your karma you might get a virus.
Message 6/36 13-Feb-02 @ 02:51 AM - RE: Karma or Virus? Advice needed
depending on your virus, you might have bad karma...
Message 7/36 13-Feb-02 @ 06:49 AM - RE: Karma or Virus? Advice needed
You really need both or something equivalent. I've seen a hundred posts like yours and the reason is simple. There isn't one synth that can do everything well. Instinctively you know this and are then thrown into a quandry on how to best spend your money. I would say get the Karma as it is probably more versatile then look for a good deal on a used VA when you can afford it. I am an ametuer but have been playing for years. It goes something like this. First you want to get that killer synth. Then "Oh gee a I need a mixer." " Wait I need a hard disk recorder." "Some out board gear would be nice." "Hey how about a sequencer." "Some plug-ins anyone." "A new module, yeah that's the ticket." New gear addiction is worse than drugs. I know because I gave up drugs 15 years ago and still can't help craving new gear. Either plan on spending $5000.00 up front or spread it out over time. But don't kid yourself. Playing and recording music is like losing your virginity. You can't do it halfway.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Message 8/36 13-Feb-02 @ 09:43 AM - RE: Karma or Virus? Advice needed
but..you dont HAVE TO get the new top expensive shit!!!!
I mean..ok..karma...does a LOT...strings, pads, basses, etc...adn it has all those dope features like the KARMA deal, but...
its $1500!!!! a bit less used but not much.
SO...I suggest the kawai K5000S. Covers all the bases (even basses) pretty damn well! doesnt have as many of the bells and whistles, but if you play your cards right you could score for say $500 or $550?
THEN...maybe a VirusA (%700) or a 1st gen Nova tabletop (%700--%800)
thats the SAME amount youd spend on the karma, for TWO synths thatll do SO MANY FUCKING SOUNDS FOR SO LONG THAT YOUR HEAD WILL SPIN!!!
if you ever mastered either...or CLAIMED to...to the point where you just couldnt come up with new sounds I would say there was something wrong
add to that a nice affordable sampler (fuckin E6400 'classic' for $500!!!) and you have a HELLA powerful machine
yeah, you should get a mixer of some sort, but..if you have a good PC you can mix in there, so you dont need a huge mixer. just enough to get the stereo outs of each sound source into the PC to record...
theres a HUGE difference between what we THINK we NEED and what will really get the job done. HUGE difference, and people seem to hardly ever realize that!
I mean..ok..karma...does a LOT...strings, pads, basses, etc...adn it has all those dope features like the KARMA deal, but...
its $1500!!!! a bit less used but not much.
SO...I suggest the kawai K5000S. Covers all the bases (even basses) pretty damn well! doesnt have as many of the bells and whistles, but if you play your cards right you could score for say $500 or $550?
THEN...maybe a VirusA (%700) or a 1st gen Nova tabletop (%700--%800)
thats the SAME amount youd spend on the karma, for TWO synths thatll do SO MANY FUCKING SOUNDS FOR SO LONG THAT YOUR HEAD WILL SPIN!!!
if you ever mastered either...or CLAIMED to...to the point where you just couldnt come up with new sounds I would say there was something wrong
add to that a nice affordable sampler (fuckin E6400 'classic' for $500!!!) and you have a HELLA powerful machine
yeah, you should get a mixer of some sort, but..if you have a good PC you can mix in there, so you dont need a huge mixer. just enough to get the stereo outs of each sound source into the PC to record...
theres a HUGE difference between what we THINK we NEED and what will really get the job done. HUGE difference, and people seem to hardly ever realize that!
Message 9/36 13-Feb-02 @ 09:54 AM - RE: Karma or Virus? Advice needed
Why would he need 7 VirusA's and 7-8 Nova's Influx? I mean parts and voices enough no?
Message 10/36 13-Feb-02 @ 02:29 PM - RE: Karma or Virus? Advice needed
I think he meant $700 and $700-800 as in that's how much they go for used.
I agree with Mr. Influx. For a little more than the Karma you could get yourself an XP-50 and a used Nord Rack, or lots of other combinations of worthwhile gear. Fuck an Emu at that price and a couple hundred in sample CDs and you've got your workstation sounds and sampler.
-Craig
I agree with Mr. Influx. For a little more than the Karma you could get yourself an XP-50 and a used Nord Rack, or lots of other combinations of worthwhile gear. Fuck an Emu at that price and a couple hundred in sample CDs and you've got your workstation sounds and sampler.
-Craig
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