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Original Message 1/38 18-Oct-02 @ 11:46 PM - brittle mixes

panama

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argh, I've got digital bite. A term I've heard about for harsh brittle mixes done a digital recording setup.

I've been noticing that a lot of my recordings are really brittle. I notice that the uppermids and highs mix together in this weird way causing a digital harshness that irritates the hell out of me. On a low volume everything sounds good--nice and smooth. But once I turn the volume up, ouch, my ears begin to bleed.

I think my problem is that I dont give enough headroom or make enough headroom by cutting off and rolling off frequencies. But this all makes me wonder... I use a digi 001 and I use it's mic pre's and inputs. Could there be any link in the 001 casuing a harsh sound? Or is it that I'm not knowledgable (sp?) enough in getting a good sound that mixes good together.

I hate that feeling when I turn up some music (on the same monitors) and get absolutely no harshness or bite. bums me out.

Anyone have any ideas on what I could do or what to improve with?

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Message 2/38 19-Oct-02 @ 12:06 AM - RE: brittle mixes

bedwyr

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dunno about brittle (though i have heard this described a lot) but maybe it's just a too much upper mids thing that's hurting your ears.

every cd you hear is digital and 16 bit so this brittlness can't be all that's causing your ear bleeding. i've heard the brittle thing being discussed when there's a lot of a/d d/a conversion going on back and forth between tape and pro tools or whatever, i'm no great believer in hi-fi so i'd hazard that it's an sounds/eq thing.

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Message 3/38 19-Oct-02 @ 12:13 AM - RE: brittle mixes

xoxos

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this is how i look at it. nyquist=22kHz as top frequency.. that's 2 points defining the waveform. 4 points at 11k, 8 at 5.5k, 16 at.. wait.. 8 at 5.5k? that's only 4 points per 180� which isn't very bloody many is it. imho it's a limitation of the medium, especially if you've been sitting there making all these beautiful sounds all day and hearing them in their original, prerecorded form.

i just keep that in mind when i'm on the job.

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Message 4/38 19-Oct-02 @ 05:34 AM - RE: brittle mixes

damballah

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it also happens when you have multiple channels of stuff that's all gone through fairly low-end converters and you emphasize the highs on every one of 'em while mixing. what was passable on it's own becomes obnoxious through a cumulative build-up. look at the frequency distribution of some nice sounder older recordings and the highs slope off (this doesn't mean no "air" though) then look at some of the stuff that's passed off now -- a hyper-limited 40-15k flatline.

how do you build your mixes?

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Message 5/38 19-Oct-02 @ 06:03 AM - RE: brittle mixes

psylichon

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x- "nyquist=22kHz as top frequency.. that's 2 points defining the waveform."

I don't understand this. Explain, please.

I don't think digital mixes necessarily lead to bright mixes. I'm always criticized by studio buddies for my dark mixes. Not enough high end. I bet it has more to do with your monitors.

p- "I think my problem is that I dont give enough headroom or make enough headroom by cutting off and rolling off frequencies."

I bet you're mixing too hot. Excessive limiting and compression can hamper low end to the point that even over-mastering can't save it. Mix with your faders at 50% as a start point and see if that helps. Only limit tracks that are dynamically out of control or you deliberately want to alter the attack/release.

psylichon

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Message 6/38 19-Oct-02 @ 10:30 AM - RE: brittle mixes

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simple - START with it turned up and roll off all the tops and drop down the 5-6k mid area too... like knock all the tops off your kik over 300hz or whatever... try things.

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Message 7/38 19-Oct-02 @ 03:43 PM - RE: brittle mixes

xoxos

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oh come on, p. 22k frequency=2 samples contain all the data for one complete 360� cycle of waveform, meaning a 22k saw will record exactly the same as a 22k sine or anything.

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Message 8/38 19-Oct-02 @ 05:30 PM - RE: brittle mixes

psylichon

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Ah, I gotcha. Very true and not something I've ever really though about much.

psylichon

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Message 9/38 19-Oct-02 @ 06:24 PM Edit: 19-Oct-02 | 06:24 PM - RE: brittle mixes

milan

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yes but if you take into account that most of us can hear that high, and that any signals in those ranges are going to be only the highest overtones, and not even from majority of sounds... then what?

ok, there�s still the fact that its only 8 ponts at 5.5k. well, there�s your "why" of hi samplerate converters � guess.

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Message 10/38 19-Oct-02 @ 08:50 PM - RE: brittle mixes

psylichon

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man this is starting to sound like another website's forums...

I don't think digital is brittle right off the bat. I think it can be coaxed into such a state much easier than when mixing analog. But comeon, how many of you are mixing thinking, "damn, I wish I had just a few more points of resolution for this frequency!" 16/44.1 works fine for almost all musical applications and you're a snob if you say otherwise.

psylichon

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