 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - Music techology
Subject: bloody bass.................
Original Message 1/47 31-May-05 @ 03:45 PM - bloody bass.................
Dominic
Posts: 1128
Link?: No link
File?: No file
In my humble opinion, BASS is the single most difficult area of club music production to master. I've tried everything…………different VSTi's including ESM, ESP, ES1, ES2, TRILOGY, ALBINO, PRO-53, FM7, ALBINO, TRIANGLE, the list goes on. No, I haven't just scrolled through presets………I've tried rolling my own.
I've tried writing basslines on all the octaves in all keys……..I've tried different settings on software compression, hardware compression, software distortion, hardware distortion, software overdrive, hardware overdrive, hi and low pass filters, cutting 40-50hz from the bottom end, layering, just using one oscillator, just using 2 oscillators, blah, blah, bloody blah……
What are you chaps using for bass? How can I get that phat sounding bass I hear on pro underground electronic house tracks……….? PLEASE…………………….I can do every other element (drums, leads, gated pads, SFX, mixing, production, limiting to a 7.5 out of 10 standard). I just cannot do bloody bass.......is there a secret VSTI?
I've tried writing basslines on all the octaves in all keys……..I've tried different settings on software compression, hardware compression, software distortion, hardware distortion, software overdrive, hardware overdrive, hi and low pass filters, cutting 40-50hz from the bottom end, layering, just using one oscillator, just using 2 oscillators, blah, blah, bloody blah……
What are you chaps using for bass? How can I get that phat sounding bass I hear on pro underground electronic house tracks……….? PLEASE…………………….I can do every other element (drums, leads, gated pads, SFX, mixing, production, limiting to a 7.5 out of 10 standard). I just cannot do bloody bass.......is there a secret VSTI?
Message 2/47 31-May-05 @ 05:48 PM - RE: bloody bass.................
I'd invest some bucks for a few lessons in a professional studio. 
Message 3/47 01-Jun-05 @ 03:42 PM - RE: bloody bass.................
Try rolling off the low low frequencies of the bass. Start a gentle slope at around 100hz or so and
roll off to taste. Most of the stuff at the real low end is just sub noise, anyway. I always thought
you needed these hz in tact for *big* bass, but you need less of it than you think. Once this is all
done, you'd be surprised at how large you can make your bass - Bring it's fader up, or boost the
eq from 100 - upwards.
I've been frustrated with bass for ages and I've only just recently started rolling off the nasty bits.
For one reason or another, I'd forgotten to do this.
Also - Layer bass with a pad or another bass.
And also - Chorus!
roll off to taste. Most of the stuff at the real low end is just sub noise, anyway. I always thought
you needed these hz in tact for *big* bass, but you need less of it than you think. Once this is all
done, you'd be surprised at how large you can make your bass - Bring it's fader up, or boost the
eq from 100 - upwards.
I've been frustrated with bass for ages and I've only just recently started rolling off the nasty bits.
For one reason or another, I'd forgotten to do this.
Also - Layer bass with a pad or another bass.
And also - Chorus!
Message 4/47 01-Jun-05 @ 05:28 PM - RE: bloody bass.................
Dominic
Posts: 1128
Link?: No link
File?: No file
wicked, so maybe I should try rolling off at 100hz rather than 40hz. Nice - gonna try this tonight. Makes sense cos then as you say I will be able to push the fader up a bit and make it appear louder without robbing headroom. Thanks Boo.
Message 5/47 01-Jun-05 @ 05:56 PM - RE: bloody bass.................
gonna have to disagree with that one, big time
"BIG BASS" is 40hz, around there.
100hz wont do it.
are you using a highpass EQ or "rolling off" those are two different terms. Id try a steep sloped highpass.
I cut my bass at 30, kicks and such at 60-100 depending, and everything else that might have the slightest bit of unnecessary low at whatever I determine to be that region
do you hve an analyzer, either plugin or outboard? if not, check out INSPECTOR. it is a free spectral analyzer plug, the best Ive found so far.
make sure you put it on an insert that is post fader (on the main bus) otherwise itll clip all the time.
"BIG BASS" is 40hz, around there.
100hz wont do it.
are you using a highpass EQ or "rolling off" those are two different terms. Id try a steep sloped highpass.
I cut my bass at 30, kicks and such at 60-100 depending, and everything else that might have the slightest bit of unnecessary low at whatever I determine to be that region
do you hve an analyzer, either plugin or outboard? if not, check out INSPECTOR. it is a free spectral analyzer plug, the best Ive found so far.
make sure you put it on an insert that is post fader (on the main bus) otherwise itll clip all the time.
Message 6/47 01-Jun-05 @ 06:41 PM - RE: bloody bass.................
It depends on the source material and style?
I'm not going to disagree with Influx because he knows his stuff. However, gently hi passing at 100 seems to clean up my stuff no end. I've been experimenting with that and I'm able to get some seemingly huge basses without any mud - Got a couple of A/B mixes played out on a big sound system with and without cut and it made the world of difference to my stuff. Now, it can go as loud as you like and still sound crisp, yet heavy. Hmmm. Also, adding more bass during playback can add more lower end, yet it's still sounding good. More experimentation.
Maybe my basses just aren't that big?
But, I guess some of the industrial stuff I've heard is pretty muddy down there, though. Some people like that.
Inspector IS good and free:
Inspector
I'm not going to disagree with Influx because he knows his stuff. However, gently hi passing at 100 seems to clean up my stuff no end. I've been experimenting with that and I'm able to get some seemingly huge basses without any mud - Got a couple of A/B mixes played out on a big sound system with and without cut and it made the world of difference to my stuff. Now, it can go as loud as you like and still sound crisp, yet heavy. Hmmm. Also, adding more bass during playback can add more lower end, yet it's still sounding good. More experimentation.
Maybe my basses just aren't that big?
But, I guess some of the industrial stuff I've heard is pretty muddy down there, though. Some people like that.
Inspector IS good and free:
Inspector
Message 7/47 01-Jun-05 @ 07:11 PM Edit: 01-Jun-05 | 07:19 PM - RE: bloody bass.................
yeah i agree on the roll off - theres fuck all wrong witrh sloping off at 80-100, dep[endant on style but your ojn the house stuff dom right -
BIG BASS in your house and BIG BASS in a club / big rig is 2 entirely diff things - you dont need as much as youd think id bet - use your ears instead of numbers ( u always sound to me like your taking numbers direct from some text book no offence
) What you percieve as a stomach churning bassline in your house normally soudns like a big fucking mess once you get it played out a full on system
i posted a track on the music section recorded from radio 1 last month - called 3000 mile away - thats got a hi-ish bass cut on it and sounds fucking lovely on a big club system, comes out next month- listen out for it
as for vsts, good moog samples are your friend if your making house thumpers!
blu
BIG BASS in your house and BIG BASS in a club / big rig is 2 entirely diff things - you dont need as much as youd think id bet - use your ears instead of numbers ( u always sound to me like your taking numbers direct from some text book no offence
) What you percieve as a stomach churning bassline in your house normally soudns like a big fucking mess once you get it played out a full on systemi posted a track on the music section recorded from radio 1 last month - called 3000 mile away - thats got a hi-ish bass cut on it and sounds fucking lovely on a big club system, comes out next month- listen out for it
as for vsts, good moog samples are your friend if your making house thumpers!
blu
Message 8/47 02-Jun-05 @ 01:19 AM - RE: bloody bass.................
I dont know where this 100hz thing came from! thats "bass" but its not BASS
an open e on a bass guitar is 60hz. would you highpass that? if you did you would be cutting the meat of the sound
theres a fundamental difference between highpass and rolloff eq, so maybe thats how you guys are getting results that are satisfactory. or else youre just fucking HIGH
I just finished a tune that I wrote the B-line without thinking of where it was hitting. It does an octave drop/rise and in the higher notes its hitting around 100hz, and the "BASS" truly disappears.
I think that bass should be LOW...40hz up to maybe 60 max. Of course there can be harmonics above that, and you can add top-end sounds to accentuate the bass and make it audible on small speakers and shit, but literally CUTTING below 100hz is just ludicrous. Im really confused by you guys claimin that this is working for you. youre removing the LOW from the LOW! why?
yes, highpassing is a damn good idea as it frees up lots of room, but if a sound is supposed to have lots of low in it...why eliminate that? just clear it out of other sounds to make room for it!
an open e on a bass guitar is 60hz. would you highpass that? if you did you would be cutting the meat of the sound
theres a fundamental difference between highpass and rolloff eq, so maybe thats how you guys are getting results that are satisfactory. or else youre just fucking HIGH
I just finished a tune that I wrote the B-line without thinking of where it was hitting. It does an octave drop/rise and in the higher notes its hitting around 100hz, and the "BASS" truly disappears.
I think that bass should be LOW...40hz up to maybe 60 max. Of course there can be harmonics above that, and you can add top-end sounds to accentuate the bass and make it audible on small speakers and shit, but literally CUTTING below 100hz is just ludicrous. Im really confused by you guys claimin that this is working for you. youre removing the LOW from the LOW! why?
yes, highpassing is a damn good idea as it frees up lots of room, but if a sound is supposed to have lots of low in it...why eliminate that? just clear it out of other sounds to make room for it!
Message 9/47 02-Jun-05 @ 01:49 AM - RE: bloody bass.................
well, im talking about rolling eq , boo 'a gentle slope at around 100hz ' which suggests the same, so i think your getting mixed up a little
I dont think anybodys talking about lashing a grm tools hipass clean onto 100 hz - from what i read
blu
I dont think anybodys talking about lashing a grm tools hipass clean onto 100 hz - from what i read
blu
Message 10/47 02-Jun-05 @ 06:31 AM Edit: 02-Jun-05 | 06:32 AM - RE: bloody bass.................
electronic music? hmmm... I cannot compose good techno. There's something missing in me to do it but I do other stuff, guitar, piano, etc... and this is what I've been going by.
Ever use that bass boost function on your amp in your car or home system? If you push that button and if it sounds like shit. Even if its just a smidgen. You got a problem down the line.
I've never used a digital bass... maybe a dx7 but I've found analog to be the best bet. It has thoose natural frequiences that just gel a piece together. When I use a bass, I usually end up driving the eq on the low end. I raise the gain/q usually below 60 hz and sometimes lower the mud around 120... altering stuff below 28 hz usually causes massive problems. be careful. I have some pretty good monitors... 4 grand a pair (there not mine btw).... but, I tend to boost the bass for some reason and it works for me.
I also tend roll-off the instruments from time to time or atleast lower the back end. Most instruments like acoustic guitar boom the mic, heh. Some mic brands design mics to roll off instruments to get rid of the back-end. Thats where the bass guitar or synth fits in to me... It creates thoose near missng freq's. the back bone.
A drum kick shouldnt be too low, unless its designed to carry the track. You gotta understand what your feeling in the track... then build. But to me having analog is a big plus. Manipulation is easier than digital. But in techno, I've heard great digital stuff and it baffles me. I guess your ears are the most important part. Ppl have done great stuff with nothing.
take care dude. think of style first.
Ever use that bass boost function on your amp in your car or home system? If you push that button and if it sounds like shit. Even if its just a smidgen. You got a problem down the line.
I've never used a digital bass... maybe a dx7 but I've found analog to be the best bet. It has thoose natural frequiences that just gel a piece together. When I use a bass, I usually end up driving the eq on the low end. I raise the gain/q usually below 60 hz and sometimes lower the mud around 120... altering stuff below 28 hz usually causes massive problems. be careful. I have some pretty good monitors... 4 grand a pair (there not mine btw).... but, I tend to boost the bass for some reason and it works for me.
I also tend roll-off the instruments from time to time or atleast lower the back end. Most instruments like acoustic guitar boom the mic, heh. Some mic brands design mics to roll off instruments to get rid of the back-end. Thats where the bass guitar or synth fits in to me... It creates thoose near missng freq's. the back bone.
A drum kick shouldnt be too low, unless its designed to carry the track. You gotta understand what your feeling in the track... then build. But to me having analog is a big plus. Manipulation is easier than digital. But in techno, I've heard great digital stuff and it baffles me. I guess your ears are the most important part. Ppl have done great stuff with nothing.
take care dude. think of style first.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5
There are 47 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
