Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: Make your DAW sound better easily
Original Message 1/13 20-Jul-05 @ 09:17 AM - Make your DAW sound better easily
so enjoy... the info is nothing new, just info I've culled thus far in my career:
[3:25am]
[3:26am] <@psylichon> nah, itb can sound really fat
[3:26am] <@psylichon> it just takes getting used to
[3:26am]
[3:26am] <@psylichon> and not slamming your levels everywhere
[3:26am] <@psylichon> it's different than mixing analog
[3:26am] <@psylichon> the same rules don't apply
[3:26am] <@psylichon> headroom becomes virtual and relative
[3:27am] <@psylichon> gain structure becomes more important in regards to how hard you hit your plugins and how much space you leave for they're processing... more important than increasing your signal to noise ratio
[3:27am] <@psylichon> s/n issues are all in your analog frontend... digital gain is the cleanest in your studio, and few people use it
[3:28am] <@psylichon> they record shit all hot and then pull down the faders when they mix to make room for it all... pointless with a 24-bit system
[3:29am] <@psylichon> http://akwww.digidesign.com/support/docs/Mixing_in_the_Box.pdf
[3:29am] <@psylichon> d/l that and read it
[3:30am] <@psylichon> if you come to understand what it's saying, it will open your eyes on DAW mixing
[3:32am]
[3:32am]
[3:32am] <@psylichon> homework?
[3:33am] <@psylichon> you just need to undertand how pro tools works... its gain structure
[3:33am] <@psylichon> that article spells it out for you
[3:34am]
[3:34am] <@psylichon> well, a question for you
[3:34am] <@psylichon> when you record your individual tracks before mixing... you try to cut them as hot as possible without clipping right?
[3:35am]
[3:35am] <@psylichon> well if you do that, then you use plugins, you're leaving no room for the extra gain the most plugins induce
[3:35am] <@psylichon> and bringing down the channel fader won't help as they're post-plugin
[3:35am] <@psylichon> so you're probably clipping the crap out of most of your plugins
[3:36am] <@psylichon> the thing to remember is this:
[3:36am]
[3:36am] <@psylichon> with a 24-bit system, it's not about "resolution" it's about "dynamic range"
[3:36am] <@psylichon> you don't have to "use all the bits"
[3:36am] <@psylichon> 24-bit converters have a dynamic range well over 120 dB signal to noise floor
[3:37am] <@psylichon> on your best day in the best recording studio with the best analog frontend you can buy, you'd be lucky if you get 105 dB s/n
[3:37am] <@psylichon> so increasing the gain of your preamp to "peg the meters into PT" will only increase the noise floor that much too
[3:38am]
[3:38am] <@psylichon> you can generally safely cut with the peaks of your source hitting at -18 in PT and you can safely raise the gain digitally without losing resolution or imparting any noise whatsoever
[3:39am] <@psylichon> so cut conservatively, don't hit your mix bus hard, and simply use a compressor or limiter as the last part of your chain and raise the makeup gain there... be it 10-20 dB or more!
[3:39am] <@psylichon> it will be the cleanest, fattest sound you've ever gotten outta PT
[3:39am] <@psylichon> the dynamic range of PT's mix buss internally is ridiculous!
[3:39am] <@psylichon> it's a non-consideration
[3:39am] <@psylichon> read that paper
[3:39am]
[3:40am] <@psylichon> [3:34am] <@psylichon> when you record your individual tracks before mixing... you try to cut them as hot as possible without clipping right?
[3:40am] <@psylichon> [3:35am]
[3:40am] <@psylichon> so which do you do?
[3:40am]
[3:40am]
[3:40am] <@psylichon> it applies to all 24-bit DAWs
[3:41am] <@psylichon> where it does not apply is analog... like tape
[3:41am] <@psylichon> in that case, you're trying to beat the inherent noise of the system... which is around 80-90 dB below your nominal signal level... which is a concern when you start compressing, because the noise floor becomes quite audible.
[3:42am] <@psylichon> with a 24-bit system, the noise starts over 120 dB down from your signal.... you can gain the fuck out of that and not add noise
[3:42am] <@psylichon> so basically there is no inherent noise with a digital system... cut conservatively
[3:42am]
[3:43am]
[3:43am]
[3:43am] <@psylichon> it's absolutely the truth, just people are so caught up in convention and they're clients are like "why are my waveforms so small... you suck!".... everyone's afraid to try it
[3:43am] <@psylichon> i have and it makes PT sound like a real mofo
Message 2/13 20-Jul-05 @ 11:57 AM - RE: Make your DAW sound better easily
here's that link again - live:
Mixing_in_the_Box.pdf
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 3/13 20-Jul-05 @ 05:26 PM - RE: Make your DAW sound better easily
if your not planning on doing that is there an advantage to generally hitting the main outs lower and not just dragging the fader down when it starts to register clipping? (although i can't always hear it when it's going red)
psy has mentioned this before so when i'm recording some guitar or whatever, i generally let it hit around -10 ... though only because i'm lazy and can't be bothered getting the level as hot as i can.
i'd be wary of hitting it much lower though, it's not exactly the quietest of places in here.
Message 4/13 21-Jul-05 @ 01:49 PM - RE: Make your DAW sound better easily
So your noise floor is already 60 dB louder than the noise floor of a 24-bit recorder. So trying to get a hotter level by upping the gain on your preamp, or sticking a compressor with gain makeup before the A/D, you're also increasing your acoustic and analog noise floor. You gain no dynamic range and no resolution because rez only matters on useable dynamic range. Making your noisefloor louder is pointless.
Yes, I would turn down softsynths. It's freightening how many presets blatantly clip their own engines these days.
Message 5/13 21-Jul-05 @ 01:49 PM Edit: 21-Jul-05 | 01:51 PM - RE: Make your DAW sound better easily
Message 6/13 21-Jul-05 @ 10:35 PM - RE: Make your DAW sound better easily
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 7/13 22-Jul-05 @ 12:26 AM - RE: Make your DAW sound better easily
Message 8/13 22-Jul-05 @ 10:44 AM - RE: Make your DAW sound better easily
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 9/13 28-Jul-05 @ 05:19 PM - RE: Make your DAW sound better easily
Message 10/13 02-Aug-05 @ 11:33 AM - RE: Make your DAW sound better easily
Floating point arithmetics could retain precision even with very low levels without adding any "extra bits".
Also, Psy, what do you think about this idea of dithering on each and every track? Have you tried such things? For me it sounds scary to introduce dithering noise and let it all add up when individual tracks are mixed together...
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