Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: digital & analogue combi gain structure
Original Message 1/21 10-Oct-05 @ 12:34 PM - digital & analogue combi gain structure
I like to sub group my drums through one of my focusrite compounders but am having problems deciding on whether to use the +4db inputs or -10db inputs. When I use the -10 db inputs - the signal peaks nicely at 0db on the compounder. When I flick the switch to +4db inputs then the compounder metre peaks at about -10db on the LED metre. The Mackie manual says that -10 db inputs are semi pro and +4db inputs are pro. Does that mean the Mackie desk is a semi pro desk and that I should be using the -10 db inputs on my compounder?
Finally I have the same input question with regards to my Focusrite Mixmaster. I have tried routing the final mix from my Mackie main mix output into both the -10db inputs and +4db inputs on the Mixmaster using both XLR's and Jacks and come out of the Mixmaster via an spdif lead back into one of the Delta 410 soundcard digital inputs and into a audio track with Logic. This is because I need to then throw Logic's AD limiter over the final WAV to have any chance of getting my final mixes to anything like the same volume/gain as commercial CD's. Do you think I am comprimising my final mixes by recording back into Logic from my Mixmaster? I mean when I play back my final mix WAV - it peaks at 0db on my Mackie faders whereas when I play back a commercial track ripped off a CD, it hits anything from +6db to +12db on my Mackie main metres - is this because they have been pro mastered? Would I be better off purchasing a standalone CDR recorder and going via spdif directly from my Mixmaster into the CDR recorder? Would I get a hotter signal that way?
I know there are a lot of questions above so thanks for taking the time to read this. Cheers.
Message 2/21 13-Oct-05 @ 12:49 PM - RE: digital & analogue combi gain structure
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Message 3/21 17-Oct-05 @ 02:14 PM - RE: digital & analogue combi gain structure
Message 4/21 17-Oct-05 @ 04:11 PM - RE: digital & analogue combi gain structure
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Message 5/21 17-Oct-05 @ 04:11 PM - RE: digital & analogue combi gain structure
Message 6/21 17-Oct-05 @ 04:13 PM Edit: 17-Oct-05 | 04:15 PM - RE: digital & analogue combi gain structure
edit: nevermind, found it
Message 7/21 17-Oct-05 @ 04:53 PM - RE: digital & analogue combi gain structure
Message 8/21 17-Oct-05 @ 06:07 PM - RE: digital & analogue combi gain structure
what i dont get is this:
when I play back my final mix WAV - it peaks at 0db on my Mackie faders whereas when I play back a commercial track ripped off a CD, it hits anything from +6db to +12db on my Mackie main metres
it looks to me you are mixing well bellow the maximum level, but do you normalise your mixes at the end of the process? you said you put a normalizer across the mix at the end. that should ensure your mix peaks at 0dbFS, which means when you play it back it should peak at the same level as your commercial cd's. yes? no? does it?
i'm not sure if you're getting this: the max level (0dbFS) coming from your pc should approach maximum level on your mixer, NOT 0db on the meters. dBFS (full scale) and 0dB on the mixer are NOT the same value. all of those are RELATIVE values which have nothing to do with each other!
if you dont know this yet, then read this SOS article first, esp. the "DAT'S THE WAY TO DO IT"
chapter, because its crucial to your question.
bah... yer making me type even tho i dont want to :P
look... the process should in praxis work like this (this is the gain structure in a digital/analog studio):
you want to mix outside of the pc, right? set all your logic output channels/busses to zero to ensure you get a good, strong signal out of the box (approcahing max level on the meters without overloading). then set the gain on the mixer input channels until you get a good, strong signal INTO the mixer (again, approaching max level w/out overloading). then when you mix, set the main out faders as high up as it will go without overloading. THEN set the input gain on your mix compressor untill it peaks at zero, or whatever its nominal setting is called. then to send it back to the pc, set its output gain until the input meters in your pc are reading almost 0dbFS (max value without overloading).
basicaly, you always want to send as strong a signal as possible from one unit to the next one, without overloading anything. you HAVE to fiddle with the knobs from song to song, or even during a mix.
anyway, read that article, learn about different dB levels and voltage, and come back to us (i know you will
Message 9/21 17-Oct-05 @ 06:11 PM - RE: digital & analogue combi gain structure
somewhere on the web, there is an article explainin EVERYTHNG about different kinds of dB's and all the rest, just cant find it right now... grrrr
Message 10/21 17-Oct-05 @ 06:18 PM - RE: digital & analogue combi gain structure
read about dBu, dBv, and dBfs
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