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Forums - Live / PA / gigging
Subject: rs7000 beauty or beast?
Original Message Date: 08-Apr-02 @ 02:58 PM - rs7000 beauty or beast?
ok so i have had it for several months now. upon getting all excited reading this forum i decided to dump some tracks in.
my current way of working is do it all in sonar, then dump the loops into the RS and beatslice them to get tempo independence.
so i take a song with about 6 drum parts and 6 instrument parts and slice em all into tracks.
the rs7000 has a serious limitation in that you can't switch between tracks (if you are using the internal sampler & efx) without a *way* out of time jump inbetween.
anyway because of this i put all my parts on section A and just mute and unmute to do the track live.
in fiddling around last night here were my major complaints:
1. muting / unmuting really lacks timing accuacy of jumping from section to section. but when you jump from section to section its like you already have your structure set and theres not much way to change it.
2. these dang knobs jump!!! i knew it was there but now its driving me crazy... you run a filter down on one part then jump to the next to run the filter and it jumps to the last setting. its completely unusable unless you are superman and can remember where everything was sitting in the first place and happen to have the track muted...
3. i am finding myself doing the exact same kind of song structures i did when on the computer but in a live setting. i have so far been unable to come up with any moments of glory or whatever because my samples are fixed, all i can do is filter them. i suppose once i write some tracks with the nord playing live that could get more interesting but i only have so many hands and its enough just to keep the mutes, unmutes going.
so any advice here?
should i start using the sections instead of the mutes so i don't have to worry about breakdowns and buildups but i have free hands to tweak the nord etc?
should i buy native instruments kontakt and bring a computer out with me and use the RS to sequence that as a sampler? (this fixes the gap between tracks and the knob jumping)
or should i just sell the RS and continue to just dj my own tracks as i have been doing...
its not that i didn't expect to run into obsticles, its just that if my live show adds no benefit over my statically recorded material then i am not sure why i am attempting it
jamey
my current way of working is do it all in sonar, then dump the loops into the RS and beatslice them to get tempo independence.
so i take a song with about 6 drum parts and 6 instrument parts and slice em all into tracks.
the rs7000 has a serious limitation in that you can't switch between tracks (if you are using the internal sampler & efx) without a *way* out of time jump inbetween.
anyway because of this i put all my parts on section A and just mute and unmute to do the track live.
in fiddling around last night here were my major complaints:
1. muting / unmuting really lacks timing accuacy of jumping from section to section. but when you jump from section to section its like you already have your structure set and theres not much way to change it.
2. these dang knobs jump!!! i knew it was there but now its driving me crazy... you run a filter down on one part then jump to the next to run the filter and it jumps to the last setting. its completely unusable unless you are superman and can remember where everything was sitting in the first place and happen to have the track muted...
3. i am finding myself doing the exact same kind of song structures i did when on the computer but in a live setting. i have so far been unable to come up with any moments of glory or whatever because my samples are fixed, all i can do is filter them. i suppose once i write some tracks with the nord playing live that could get more interesting but i only have so many hands and its enough just to keep the mutes, unmutes going.
so any advice here?
should i start using the sections instead of the mutes so i don't have to worry about breakdowns and buildups but i have free hands to tweak the nord etc?
should i buy native instruments kontakt and bring a computer out with me and use the RS to sequence that as a sampler? (this fixes the gap between tracks and the knob jumping)
or should i just sell the RS and continue to just dj my own tracks as i have been doing...
its not that i didn't expect to run into obsticles, its just that if my live show adds no benefit over my statically recorded material then i am not sure why i am attempting it
jamey
Message 11/16 09-Apr-02 @ 03:53 AM - RE: rs7000 beauty or beast?
oooo fun ideas:
kontakt has up to 128 layers based on velocity... imagine triggering a loop off kontakt (with 128 stacked breaks or whatever) and then running the velocity knob around thru your layers :-)
kontakt has up to 8 loop points with definable repeats etc... that means in the sample memory of a 2 bar loop (1 full on, 1 breakdown) i could hold the key have it play thru 8 bars to a mini breakdown then continue playing thru to the full breakdown at the last bar 16 :-) all tempo independent of course.
cool thing about the RS is i can map all of the stuff in kontakt right to the front panel and work just as if i was working the rs sampler itself...
the stupid product isn't even shipping yet and already i have gear lust... oh well!
jamey
kontakt has up to 128 layers based on velocity... imagine triggering a loop off kontakt (with 128 stacked breaks or whatever) and then running the velocity knob around thru your layers :-)
kontakt has up to 8 loop points with definable repeats etc... that means in the sample memory of a 2 bar loop (1 full on, 1 breakdown) i could hold the key have it play thru 8 bars to a mini breakdown then continue playing thru to the full breakdown at the last bar 16 :-) all tempo independent of course.
cool thing about the RS is i can map all of the stuff in kontakt right to the front panel and work just as if i was working the rs sampler itself...
the stupid product isn't even shipping yet and already i have gear lust... oh well!
jamey
Message 12/16 09-Apr-02 @ 03:54 AM - RE: rs7000 beauty or beast?
but jamey..you can change phrases within a style, too, so those same 5 or so kick patterns, snare patterns, hihat patterns, whatever, could all be done in the RS too, no?
Message 13/16 09-Apr-02 @ 04:05 AM - RE: rs7000 beauty or beast?
yes thats very true, but i am doing almost all of my production work in sonar and then moving it over.... loop based is much easier for me.
i can mess up sounds in ways unthinkable on the computer versus rs by itself.
i suppose i could chop up the stuff on the computer and make drum kits instead of doing it in the rs7000....
but with loops you don't have to worry about midi... just leave the same midi loop playing with one key triggered but change the assigned loop for it.
am i just being lazy? probably. but time is my worst enemy with this music stuff.
gonna go play on it some more.
jamey
i can mess up sounds in ways unthinkable on the computer versus rs by itself.
i suppose i could chop up the stuff on the computer and make drum kits instead of doing it in the rs7000....
but with loops you don't have to worry about midi... just leave the same midi loop playing with one key triggered but change the assigned loop for it.
am i just being lazy? probably. but time is my worst enemy with this music stuff.
gonna go play on it some more.
jamey
Message 14/16 09-Apr-02 @ 05:17 AM - RE: rs7000 beauty or beast?
yeah..youre right...
I definitely want to make the sounds as much as I can in the computer, and then go from there...and dont want them tempo locked either (which is the one advantage of the RS over the other sampler/sequencers)
so..mindspawn...if the RS aint "IT" then..what IS...in your eyes?
I definitely want to make the sounds as much as I can in the computer, and then go from there...and dont want them tempo locked either (which is the one advantage of the RS over the other sampler/sequencers)
so..mindspawn...if the RS aint "IT" then..what IS...in your eyes?
Message 15/16 09-Apr-02 @ 12:36 PM - RE: rs7000 beauty or beast?
Haven't ever found it yet, herr Influx... I'd love to have something that's a combination of say the 505s pattern call function, the RS's sequencer, the ARP from either the 505 or the EMU XL7, and a "live" step sequencer like the SEQ303 s/w... since I'm building a dream machine, it'd have a combination of analog, FM, and digital, a three octave set of keys, a couple ribbon controllers, two mod wheels, a pitch wheel, and a couple of Dimension Beams (the full deal Dimension Beams, not the little D-Beams from Roland).... just for starters...=)
About the RS, I didna mean to sound harsh about it. It's definitely capable of being used live... I've done it myself... I just like to bitch and moan I s'pose....
Formant - I hate Yammy's terminolgy, too. I dunno why they can't just make a "standard" so to speak... Anyhoos, if you're gonna be working with sections like you say, you could set the RS so that the "update TG" is set to off, then you could also change styles all night long without a single burp... Especially since you're talking about using loops, you could set up like you were describing, using the key shift to change up your sounds every so often, and you could also do the same thing for your individual drum hits. You might still have to drop in the occasional Program Change for some bits, but it'd still work fairly smoothly in any case, methinks...
Peace
About the RS, I didna mean to sound harsh about it. It's definitely capable of being used live... I've done it myself... I just like to bitch and moan I s'pose....
Formant - I hate Yammy's terminolgy, too. I dunno why they can't just make a "standard" so to speak... Anyhoos, if you're gonna be working with sections like you say, you could set the RS so that the "update TG" is set to off, then you could also change styles all night long without a single burp... Especially since you're talking about using loops, you could set up like you were describing, using the key shift to change up your sounds every so often, and you could also do the same thing for your individual drum hits. You might still have to drop in the occasional Program Change for some bits, but it'd still work fairly smoothly in any case, methinks...
Peace
Message 16/16 09-Apr-02 @ 02:27 PM - RE: rs7000 beauty or beast?
ok played some more last night and here is what i will do for friday (dj gig)
put the rs with 1 song loaded (takin it slow) and mix from the dj gear into my song and back out. subtile with no rockstar shenanigans.
baby steps.
last night i got > < this close to "creating" on the fly with the RS but it involved using the filters to create a new soundscape. def my fav thing on this RS is the 1-8 9-16 and ALL knob controls... so you can filter out all the drums then run the bass volume down etc etc. it made the song much more fluid.
i actually forgot i was 'doing it live' and was simply jamming on the fly for a brief brief moment or two.
i need more of those moments to fuel my passion :-)
oh btw i did a test last night and as i suspected the midi 1-8 9-16 dealie transmits midi so you could do filter sweeps etc with an external sampler as well.
jamey
put the rs with 1 song loaded (takin it slow) and mix from the dj gear into my song and back out. subtile with no rockstar shenanigans.
baby steps.
last night i got > < this close to "creating" on the fly with the RS but it involved using the filters to create a new soundscape. def my fav thing on this RS is the 1-8 9-16 and ALL knob controls... so you can filter out all the drums then run the bass volume down etc etc. it made the song much more fluid.
i actually forgot i was 'doing it live' and was simply jamming on the fly for a brief brief moment or two.
i need more of those moments to fuel my passion :-)
oh btw i did a test last night and as i suspected the midi 1-8 9-16 dealie transmits midi so you could do filter sweeps etc with an external sampler as well.
jamey
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