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Forums - Samplers & sampling
Subject: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
Original Message Date: 29-Mar-00 @ 10:26 PM - ASR X PRO = Pro ?
the topic pretty much tells it. my main consearn is the timing of the sequencer and loading problems/errors...
Message 11/18 01-Apr-00 @ 10:39 AM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
Garth at RCS confirmed for me that the SCSI Port on the original ASR-X (optional, user installed) is the identical card used in the ASR-X Pro (standard, installed at the factory). So many things come into play with a SCSI chain I don't know that we can reverse troubleshoot the occasional glith you described.
I've heard of X-Pro users having problems with SCSI chains but they were also using older, discontinued products like SyQuest eZflyers, etc. I know that the Orb drive doesn't work at all with either X. I don't hear many of many X/Zip drive problems - aside from disks going bad or drives crashing. Since I share my Zip between my Mac and X I get the occasional device not found error in Peak and I have to 'reset' the SCSI chain - no big deal - just a nuisance. I don't think 3.04 makes a difference as far as SCSI connections. The pre-3.04 releases were beta/developer only so I can't comment on practical use. Typically, I'd use short SCSI cables to keep my SCSI chain within the theoretical limits. That said, for my X, I'm using a decent quality 6 ft. SCSI cable and much to my surprise it's been very reliable. My Zip is about 18 months old too (about five-six months older than my X.) Did you ever check to see whether the SCSI card in your old X was seated in its slot firmly?
So what are you going to do? R-Tek seems to be dialed into the MPC+2nd sampler combo scenario. It's obvious you miss the ASR-X and we know you can get a deal on eBay (are you in the U.S. or Europe?) or trade. Are you going to keep the MPC and buy another X or will you go for an X / RM1x combo. I know there were one or two X'ers on the mailing list using both the RM1x and X. If you go the latter route, than you'll need to spend time getting over the learning curve associated with a new piece of gear. Not that you're not up to that ;-) but do you have the TIME to fit that in amongst your other activities? Geez, I haven't even made time to put up that demo copy of Logic I spent so much time tracking down :-(
I've heard of X-Pro users having problems with SCSI chains but they were also using older, discontinued products like SyQuest eZflyers, etc. I know that the Orb drive doesn't work at all with either X. I don't hear many of many X/Zip drive problems - aside from disks going bad or drives crashing. Since I share my Zip between my Mac and X I get the occasional device not found error in Peak and I have to 'reset' the SCSI chain - no big deal - just a nuisance. I don't think 3.04 makes a difference as far as SCSI connections. The pre-3.04 releases were beta/developer only so I can't comment on practical use. Typically, I'd use short SCSI cables to keep my SCSI chain within the theoretical limits. That said, for my X, I'm using a decent quality 6 ft. SCSI cable and much to my surprise it's been very reliable. My Zip is about 18 months old too (about five-six months older than my X.) Did you ever check to see whether the SCSI card in your old X was seated in its slot firmly?
So what are you going to do? R-Tek seems to be dialed into the MPC+2nd sampler combo scenario. It's obvious you miss the ASR-X and we know you can get a deal on eBay (are you in the U.S. or Europe?) or trade. Are you going to keep the MPC and buy another X or will you go for an X / RM1x combo. I know there were one or two X'ers on the mailing list using both the RM1x and X. If you go the latter route, than you'll need to spend time getting over the learning curve associated with a new piece of gear. Not that you're not up to that ;-) but do you have the TIME to fit that in amongst your other activities? Geez, I haven't even made time to put up that demo copy of Logic I spent so much time tracking down :-(
Message 12/18 01-Apr-00 @ 01:48 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
hey R-tek thanks for not burning my head on a stick for turning my back on
the MPC cult
.. glad to c u backing me up actually...
Jondl: thanks for the SCSI research.. concerning "the learning process" I
have a job opportunity to go on the road with a theatre play so I'll just take the RM1x with me and when I come back a month later I'll b set to hook it up to the rest of the kit)....besides my real gain is that: my 4 years of ASRX experience is put 2 use again.
my only fear is that I'm making the wrong choice:: everyone loves their
mpc,, heck R-Tek can't go on without it!! I've only had it for a 7 weeks,
with the standard 2mb of ram, (vs. my 4 years on the ASRX which makes
me wonder if I would do what I'm doing if I had 4 years on the mpc????),
but within that time I've sampled quite a bit, and often found myself crying
for a High Pass or Resampling.. and like I said I dearly miss the way the X
can chop in real-time!! I really bond with that method...is there any other
sampler out that can do this!!???
concerning ASR X VS MPC work speed/interface: : the MPC has
dedicated buttons and a big lcd which make u think it would b faster/easier
in use. but the fact is: there r allot of shortcuts on the X and second
functions by holding two buttons down, u also don't have to go through
trim & programs and sampling is done with a touch of a button, with
imitate access to all sampling parameter on any sound via touch of a pad, all that really makes up for those dedicated keys..
and R-Tek u do all your sequencing and drum sampling on the MPC, perhaps u can enlighten me of its magic and how it helps u make music? cos if the only reason people buy it is cos of its reability and tight timing, I'll b sadly disappointed in the standard the market has fallen to, its great to carry your kit live but besides
that its just another box. basicly I'we xpressed why the ASR X is so fantastik, can u do the same with the MPC prehaps that will open my mind.
the MPC cult
.. glad to c u backing me up actually... Jondl: thanks for the SCSI research.. concerning "the learning process" I
have a job opportunity to go on the road with a theatre play so I'll just take the RM1x with me and when I come back a month later I'll b set to hook it up to the rest of the kit)....besides my real gain is that: my 4 years of ASRX experience is put 2 use again.
my only fear is that I'm making the wrong choice:: everyone loves their
mpc,, heck R-Tek can't go on without it!! I've only had it for a 7 weeks,
with the standard 2mb of ram, (vs. my 4 years on the ASRX which makes
me wonder if I would do what I'm doing if I had 4 years on the mpc????),
but within that time I've sampled quite a bit, and often found myself crying
for a High Pass or Resampling.. and like I said I dearly miss the way the X
can chop in real-time!! I really bond with that method...is there any other
sampler out that can do this!!???
concerning ASR X VS MPC work speed/interface: : the MPC has
dedicated buttons and a big lcd which make u think it would b faster/easier
in use. but the fact is: there r allot of shortcuts on the X and second
functions by holding two buttons down, u also don't have to go through
trim & programs and sampling is done with a touch of a button, with
imitate access to all sampling parameter on any sound via touch of a pad, all that really makes up for those dedicated keys..
and R-Tek u do all your sequencing and drum sampling on the MPC, perhaps u can enlighten me of its magic and how it helps u make music? cos if the only reason people buy it is cos of its reability and tight timing, I'll b sadly disappointed in the standard the market has fallen to, its great to carry your kit live but besides
that its just another box. basicly I'we xpressed why the ASR X is so fantastik, can u do the same with the MPC prehaps that will open my mind.
Message 13/18 01-Apr-00 @ 03:11 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
Druma, I do all my sequencing on my MPC. Drums r lifted b4hand on my emu and treated 2 whatever processing they need (filtering, efx, whatever) b4 being resampled and sent 2 the MPC that kinda magically adds a topend sheen 2 the drums. I like the way it forces u 2 work - in little sections, no graphical interface so it kinda trains yer ears 2 liten 2 whats going on rather than look. Very intuitive and lightning quick 2 get ideas down, the only thing that is shit about the interface IMO is when u add swing and shift 2 the notes - too damn fiddly.
Its true that I feel I cant manage without it, but, I could never mange with it being my only sampler either.....cos....well, its not really a sampler is it?
Something I would suggest though is the ASQ10 - an MPC60 without the sampler - 4 midi outs, 2 ins, rocksolid timing and pretty much the same interface as the MPC2. Not as good a sequencer as the RM1X (so I`m told, Ive never used the Yam), but u get a seriously healthy amount of timbrality which I feel, could b a winner in the live arena, and team that up with the ASRXs superb sampling abilities and u may well find yerself in music-making nirvana. Just a thought anyway, I`m not sure if the Yams 16 part timbrality would b a good idea in the long run.
Its true that I feel I cant manage without it, but, I could never mange with it being my only sampler either.....cos....well, its not really a sampler is it?
Something I would suggest though is the ASQ10 - an MPC60 without the sampler - 4 midi outs, 2 ins, rocksolid timing and pretty much the same interface as the MPC2. Not as good a sequencer as the RM1X (so I`m told, Ive never used the Yam), but u get a seriously healthy amount of timbrality which I feel, could b a winner in the live arena, and team that up with the ASRXs superb sampling abilities and u may well find yerself in music-making nirvana. Just a thought anyway, I`m not sure if the Yams 16 part timbrality would b a good idea in the long run.
Message 14/18 01-Apr-00 @ 09:02 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
R-Tek,
It's interesting that you mention the ASQ10 - a friend and fellow ASR-X user just brought that up with me last week.
Didn't the ASQ10 go out of production in the late '80's / early '90's - or am I'm mistaken? Any idea how it would compare to current gear?
jondl
It's interesting that you mention the ASQ10 - a friend and fellow ASR-X user just brought that up with me last week.
Didn't the ASQ10 go out of production in the late '80's / early '90's - or am I'm mistaken? Any idea how it would compare to current gear?
jondl
Message 15/18 02-Apr-00 @ 04:17 AM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
yeah, it went out with the MPC60....which was early 90s I think. How does it compare 2 current gear? Well, its the same old MPC basically that Akai r flogging 4 all its worth - resolution is 96pqn compared 2 the RM1Xs 480pqn but u get swing quantise which cant b underestimated, no graphical interface whatsoever, but that all so simple and easy interface (IMO) that lets u get the job done. I`m not saying druma *should* get one, its just a suggestion, but how many other 64part H/W sequencers r outthere? I think a lot of the time we try and tell ourselves that we *need* this or that feature in our sequencer, when really all we need is the basics, and we ned them 2 b done well.
Message 16/18 02-Apr-00 @ 12:20 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
the ASQ isn't as great live as the MPC2k cos u can't do any live seq triggering or muting via pads!
what am I going to do..hmmm well its brand new and I think there's a waiting list for it at the music store that I bought it at! its only 7weeks old, and I'm pretty sure I can walk into the store and return it for almost full refund and walk out with a 01v + cash (can u beleve I paid over $31oo CND for it!!! there is no competison here in Canada, they all team up to gether to phock the customer, sorta like a gang bang (I can't beleve I just said that) but I'm hopeing I can get great deal in a trade for a X pro! cos prices on Ebay r dirt cheap and the XL is new!
but I was using the MPC last night and the feel of it is sooooo good, and everything it does it does sooo well the timestreatching is of way higher quality so is the bit-reduction (called resample on the Akai, it does take hell of alot longer than on the X, hence the quality (it truly resamples, while the X just reducts bits), I'm not worried about frezzes anymore after 1.10 ( hed up R-tek 1.1 is out) it loads/saves very fast, and I get around the windows quite clearly. I can c myself really diging it after few more months!
R-tek has the force ..hes got the E5ooo + the MPC.. man what a combo! ..but there's no way I can afford another sampler, and the MPC sampling abilities really depress me.
but if u r not having any problems with your X pro jondl?? I'll pick up a X! is it safe to go back? r u running 3.04 (is 3.04 same as 2.67?) is the seq better on the pro?? and all in all does the pro have a better feel?, one thing I've always wonderd is: how does that stomper come out? and do the essentals help living the X life?..
and in the long run 64 tracks will come in handy, I just wish we had thouse great features of the RM1x like group mute/recording, spliting a drum track into seprate tracks + tons more of very usable features., and all thouse realtime twist.. man Akai what a bunch of cunts! the reason they didn't inqlude the S2000 engine is cos that would hurt the sales of the S2000 and the up coming MPC5000, talk about buissnes ethics!! ...
what am I going to do..hmmm well its brand new and I think there's a waiting list for it at the music store that I bought it at! its only 7weeks old, and I'm pretty sure I can walk into the store and return it for almost full refund and walk out with a 01v + cash (can u beleve I paid over $31oo CND for it!!! there is no competison here in Canada, they all team up to gether to phock the customer, sorta like a gang bang (I can't beleve I just said that) but I'm hopeing I can get great deal in a trade for a X pro! cos prices on Ebay r dirt cheap and the XL is new!
but I was using the MPC last night and the feel of it is sooooo good, and everything it does it does sooo well the timestreatching is of way higher quality so is the bit-reduction (called resample on the Akai, it does take hell of alot longer than on the X, hence the quality (it truly resamples, while the X just reducts bits), I'm not worried about frezzes anymore after 1.10 ( hed up R-tek 1.1 is out) it loads/saves very fast, and I get around the windows quite clearly. I can c myself really diging it after few more months!
R-tek has the force ..hes got the E5ooo + the MPC.. man what a combo! ..but there's no way I can afford another sampler, and the MPC sampling abilities really depress me.
but if u r not having any problems with your X pro jondl?? I'll pick up a X! is it safe to go back? r u running 3.04 (is 3.04 same as 2.67?) is the seq better on the pro?? and all in all does the pro have a better feel?, one thing I've always wonderd is: how does that stomper come out? and do the essentals help living the X life?..
and in the long run 64 tracks will come in handy, I just wish we had thouse great features of the RM1x like group mute/recording, spliting a drum track into seprate tracks + tons more of very usable features., and all thouse realtime twist.. man Akai what a bunch of cunts! the reason they didn't inqlude the S2000 engine is cos that would hurt the sales of the S2000 and the up coming MPC5000, talk about buissnes ethics!! ...
Message 17/18 02-Apr-00 @ 07:53 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
No, I'm not having problems with my ASR-X Pro. As I mentioned earlier - if you buy/trade for an ASR-X Pro make certain to check out how much memory it's configured with. The symptom of a Pro not working with the full 66 MB (2 MB std. plus 2x32 MB SIMMs) installed is a dead give away - it won't boot with 2 x 32 MB SIMMs installed - if it boots okay with only one 32 MB SIMM installed be prepared to play the 'memory swap game' to find a working pair. My advice, try and find one working with the full 66 MB installed and working.
OS 3.04 and 2.67 are essentially the same. The only difference is in the Pro specific features - no big deal. There's no difference in the seq between the red & black X.
It's not actually the sequencer per se that's a problem - it's the CPU that's underpowered. The Seq timing is actually okay during playback only - as you probably already know - its the real time mutes, etc. that put strain on the CPU and of course the Seq pays the price! :-# It was a dumb a** cost cutting measure to manufacture with a lesser CPU. Maybe OS 4 will optimize some of the seq code and improve things - modestly - but I doubt it seriously.
Stomper works fine - just have to remind yourself the 'stomped' sound defaults to the Scratch Pad and needs to be assigned to Pads - but you're already familiar with that too. I'm certain it's not as nice as the PC version but since I'm a Mac user at home I'm glad it's there to fool around with. You can definitely create cool analog like drum sounds with it!
BTW - I took a quick peak at eBay tonight and I noticed most of the ASR-X Pro that have been up FA the last two weeks didn't actually meet the reserve price! Most of them appear to have been stock models, i.e., no output expander, EXP card or extra RAM. Bidding seems to max out at $700+ (U.S.) If it were me, I'd place a reserve at $900, start bidding at $650 and through in the RAM and a Zip drive. I recently saw a similar config go for $1100. We can discuss that offline if you'd like ;-)
Whew, I think that covers it?!
OS 3.04 and 2.67 are essentially the same. The only difference is in the Pro specific features - no big deal. There's no difference in the seq between the red & black X.
It's not actually the sequencer per se that's a problem - it's the CPU that's underpowered. The Seq timing is actually okay during playback only - as you probably already know - its the real time mutes, etc. that put strain on the CPU and of course the Seq pays the price! :-# It was a dumb a** cost cutting measure to manufacture with a lesser CPU. Maybe OS 4 will optimize some of the seq code and improve things - modestly - but I doubt it seriously.
Stomper works fine - just have to remind yourself the 'stomped' sound defaults to the Scratch Pad and needs to be assigned to Pads - but you're already familiar with that too. I'm certain it's not as nice as the PC version but since I'm a Mac user at home I'm glad it's there to fool around with. You can definitely create cool analog like drum sounds with it!
BTW - I took a quick peak at eBay tonight and I noticed most of the ASR-X Pro that have been up FA the last two weeks didn't actually meet the reserve price! Most of them appear to have been stock models, i.e., no output expander, EXP card or extra RAM. Bidding seems to max out at $700+ (U.S.) If it were me, I'd place a reserve at $900, start bidding at $650 and through in the RAM and a Zip drive. I recently saw a similar config go for $1100. We can discuss that offline if you'd like ;-)
Whew, I think that covers it?!
Message 18/18 02-Apr-00 @ 10:25 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
Praise to u jondl!!
thanks agian for great replies,
u coverd every angle mate.
thanks agian for great replies,
u coverd every angle mate.
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