 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - Synths & synthesis
Subject: New soundset for the NOVA ????
Original Message Date: 13-Aug-01 @ 07:07 PM - New soundset for the NOVA ????
The "total.mid"-file,
coming up with the new OS,
is not a new soundset
just some new sounds are added to the old,
maybe some are optimized for the new OS...
I don´t know why other companies like
Access are able to produce really cool
Banks for their new OS
(the Cosmic Dancer Set is fantastic),
but after so a long time no really
new soundset was made by Novation...
The support of Novation is far away
from Access or Waldorf.
Its hard to say but its true.
I know your arguments, "make your own sounds"
and bla bla,
but I have no time for this kind of work,
I need some more banks with different sounds,
which I finally rework for the song,
but I like to be inspired by new sounds.
Maybe someone can give me some more sounds,
I have not a lot to trade,
but I would be happy if you can give me some more.
Best regards,
bene
coming up with the new OS,
is not a new soundset
just some new sounds are added to the old,
maybe some are optimized for the new OS...
I don´t know why other companies like
Access are able to produce really cool
Banks for their new OS
(the Cosmic Dancer Set is fantastic),
but after so a long time no really
new soundset was made by Novation...
The support of Novation is far away
from Access or Waldorf.
Its hard to say but its true.
I know your arguments, "make your own sounds"
and bla bla,
but I have no time for this kind of work,
I need some more banks with different sounds,
which I finally rework for the song,
but I like to be inspired by new sounds.
Maybe someone can give me some more sounds,
I have not a lot to trade,
but I would be happy if you can give me some more.
Best regards,
bene
Message 11/30 16-Aug-01 @ 07:37 PM - RE: New soundset for the NOVA ????
Hmmm k,
really nice that you spend so much time
to analyse my musician abilities.
Maybe you have realized that I dont
do underground club music,
and I havent raved since 1990,
maybe I haver never really raved.
I dont know what you do,
but I present my music since last september
at mp3.de where I am (was) very successful,
in 3 weeks I´m for the first time on a Maxi with a remix.
Now I concentrate to do my own first release,
and I think every sound you have heard before
in 1000 Tracks;)
Just a ing mp3-musician ;)
cu
bene
really nice that you spend so much time
to analyse my musician abilities.
Maybe you have realized that I dont
do underground club music,
and I havent raved since 1990,
maybe I haver never really raved.
I dont know what you do,
but I present my music since last september
at mp3.de where I am (was) very successful,
in 3 weeks I´m for the first time on a Maxi with a remix.
Now I concentrate to do my own first release,
and I think every sound you have heard before
in 1000 Tracks;)
Just a ing mp3-musician ;)
cu
bene
Message 12/30 17-Aug-01 @ 02:14 AM - RE: New soundset for the NOVA ????
hey - I DID spend time, that's the whole point. - ok i wrote this last night and didn't post it, but now i'll post it so you can see my point of view mebbe better - ... obviously you CAN use the gear... so this is what i think:
hey, each to his own, it's only my opinion for gods sake not the law - some people might love it which is fair enuff. - my comments is just cos he comes having a go at novation wholesale as a company cos they aint delivering him 'painting by numbers new sounds' to use... and that after months and months & months of this forum being used by people for just bandwaggon bashing novation it seems to me to be too much... next, it'll be the fucking COLOUR of the synths people are complaining...
so anyways, i listen to what he's doing cos after all he claims he is let down by a company NOT providing him with sounds and let down badly enuff to say the company is bad... so i want to know whats going on with his music that 'new sounds' will fix... So I listened, and i hear as i say something which is not of the creator imo - like a guy using other people's sounds, and other people's generic music ideas from a recent past era, but badly -
NOT badly as in terms of 'talent', that I can tolerate & I know the difference & would NOT have a go at someone who is learning/a begginer & genuinely trying to be creative - But this is different... as in, no attempt has been made to 'create'... simply to make a marketable mp3.com commodity instead by copying an old genre he doesnt seem to understand too well.
Look, remember it is now two years since the www and these types of sites were invaded by this mainstream 'trance' invasion of a mass of people wanting to make 'trance' cos it was popular in that format the previous summer in Ibiza.. that is all finished now, dead and buried I promise you. two years before that it's an 'MC303 owners and their acid' invasion.. and a wave of wanna-be prodigy breakbeat makers... and each time it killed the genre stone dead as trance has been killed now by the same thing, (not underground trance)
so in this case as in all those cases, I ask myself.. for what?.. whats the point of it? - and i think in this case as in all those cases past & present, he'd be better off NOT making that stuff but to get back to basic's & learn the genre properly so he can create something relevent & contemporary -
he says 'i have no time' - well he has time to make these tracks & spend ages creating fancy edits/breaks between track sections... so whats the 'no time' ?? - what?.. no time to be creative and make your own music?... i think it's not being honest in any respect that's all, & to then blame this on Novation is a bit shitty because really it is not their remit or the remit of the product to make a: '1001 trance home users' synth... They created a fine synth with excellent fast & intuitive editing for creation of sounds in an analog or otherwise genre - and after all, synths; any synths, make only a certain amount of generic 'starter' sounds based on building blocks of the options available in a 3osc synth, the rest are variations on those theme's... ALL the possible permeatations are already there as presets to build on.. they cant really add MORE sounds without them being nothing more than 'tweaks' of the prime sound types already available, no matter how good they are...
so imo he's asking really for other peoples 'creativity' for free to fuel his own ambitions to 'be a musician', which to me is the same as stealing ideas UNLESS YOU PAY - if he buys 3rd party soundsets, FINE.. cos someone is being PAID for their time & creativity... i think therefore, imo, that is unfair then to criticise the product company for not doing so as they have already provided every possible building block starter permeatation sound type (hundreds of them) from which one can edit a unique variation with little effort... after all lets face it, a synth might have 400 presets, but 200 of those are mebbe just a chorus tweaked or envelope tweaked variation on a starter sound in bank_1 etc - so how lazy can you be to not make the merest alterations yourself to suit the track?... and thats the other thing...
synth sounds in dance... people have this idea that 'syth sounds' should be some sort of 'piano' type identifiable sound which again aint so... blips, bangs, squeeks & buzz's and other non identifiable sounds are the building blocks of dance music, because DANCE is about RHYTHMS and the sounds MUST compliment the rhythm FIRST ABOVE ANYTHING...
What it is NOT about, is quasi-european classical music movements played at gallop-speed quadruple-time on strident, dominating analog synths with block-square timing over a repetitive tedious square beat broken up by produced drum rolls & cymbal crescendo's... thats just not what it is about..
but as i say again... it's just an opinion, mebbe too harsh
... but i think it is unfair to attack a company/product, (any product), when you are obviously not the slightest bit interested in the ability of their product for how one should use it & the whole point of why it was created...
anyways, he can sell it and buy a virus, and join the ranks of virus preset bland trance makers -
That is NOT having a go at Virus though, it is a VERY fine synth when in the hands of someone who creates something original with it.. but y'know.. like rebirth trance.. millions of trance tracks on the www, all with the same sounds, the same square boring rhythms... with no cross patterns, no other time signatures in cross patterns, nothing but: bash bash bash on the beat on the beat...
that is NOT trance ! - it is more like hard house, except hard house has style & humour and 'happy' & a cool offbeat bass too amongst other parts also driving offbeats to break up the banging beat which underpins it all... techno again thrives on cross rhythms as does garage and every other genre..... dance music isnt supposed to be this all-on-the-same-beat stuff.. it is a woven story of cross rhythms and motif's to take you on a journey or just to get you moving like mad, but it is woven...
why is it called TRANCE???.. does anyone ask themselves this even??.. is a 'trance' state bashed into someones skull with a sledgehammer?... or is it rather 'induced', so they are led into it, bit by bit, deeper and deeper, so that they suddenly unconciously find themselves in this place without knowing how they got there but they are in it deep, and it then takes them around inside this place at varying depths showing them the majesty of the various parts of the inside of the temple.... what we have as the alternative is just like sex without foreplay - "drop your knickers love and take that!".. bang bang bang....
Look, I make music, and for a long time.. and really truly, it's ludicrous for anyone to suggest that ANY make of synth on the market is responsible somehow for your ability or otherwise to make good music - it's a total myth! - the Nova series will make ANY genre of music.. and thats that... so will many other synths.. all it requires is genuine motivation on the part of the user....
Now, all I'm saying is really, nothing preset-wise is going to make his music 'better'... what he needs to do is learn the genre, the subtleties of that genre and that'll serve him FAR better than seeking presets in terms of making his music something people WANT to buy or dance to... but sure, if you like it fair enuff, but sometimes as the remit of this site, i gotta say these things, he just happened to be the unlucky example because really, if you are going to come and use the forum to just pop in, bash the company/product, then just dissapear again fine.... but take some equal criticism back in return mebbe and see what it is like to be on the receiving end of what you give out ... It's not personal, and all the more NOT personal cos there's NOTHING 'personal' about that music at all as far as I can see... it could be anyone making it cos there is thousands of tracks out there exactly the same, indistinguishable from one another.
hey, each to his own, it's only my opinion for gods sake not the law - some people might love it which is fair enuff. - my comments is just cos he comes having a go at novation wholesale as a company cos they aint delivering him 'painting by numbers new sounds' to use... and that after months and months & months of this forum being used by people for just bandwaggon bashing novation it seems to me to be too much... next, it'll be the fucking COLOUR of the synths people are complaining...
so anyways, i listen to what he's doing cos after all he claims he is let down by a company NOT providing him with sounds and let down badly enuff to say the company is bad... so i want to know whats going on with his music that 'new sounds' will fix... So I listened, and i hear as i say something which is not of the creator imo - like a guy using other people's sounds, and other people's generic music ideas from a recent past era, but badly -
NOT badly as in terms of 'talent', that I can tolerate & I know the difference & would NOT have a go at someone who is learning/a begginer & genuinely trying to be creative - But this is different... as in, no attempt has been made to 'create'... simply to make a marketable mp3.com commodity instead by copying an old genre he doesnt seem to understand too well.
Look, remember it is now two years since the www and these types of sites were invaded by this mainstream 'trance' invasion of a mass of people wanting to make 'trance' cos it was popular in that format the previous summer in Ibiza.. that is all finished now, dead and buried I promise you. two years before that it's an 'MC303 owners and their acid' invasion.. and a wave of wanna-be prodigy breakbeat makers... and each time it killed the genre stone dead as trance has been killed now by the same thing, (not underground trance)
so in this case as in all those cases, I ask myself.. for what?.. whats the point of it? - and i think in this case as in all those cases past & present, he'd be better off NOT making that stuff but to get back to basic's & learn the genre properly so he can create something relevent & contemporary -
he says 'i have no time' - well he has time to make these tracks & spend ages creating fancy edits/breaks between track sections... so whats the 'no time' ?? - what?.. no time to be creative and make your own music?... i think it's not being honest in any respect that's all, & to then blame this on Novation is a bit shitty because really it is not their remit or the remit of the product to make a: '1001 trance home users' synth... They created a fine synth with excellent fast & intuitive editing for creation of sounds in an analog or otherwise genre - and after all, synths; any synths, make only a certain amount of generic 'starter' sounds based on building blocks of the options available in a 3osc synth, the rest are variations on those theme's... ALL the possible permeatations are already there as presets to build on.. they cant really add MORE sounds without them being nothing more than 'tweaks' of the prime sound types already available, no matter how good they are...
so imo he's asking really for other peoples 'creativity' for free to fuel his own ambitions to 'be a musician', which to me is the same as stealing ideas UNLESS YOU PAY - if he buys 3rd party soundsets, FINE.. cos someone is being PAID for their time & creativity... i think therefore, imo, that is unfair then to criticise the product company for not doing so as they have already provided every possible building block starter permeatation sound type (hundreds of them) from which one can edit a unique variation with little effort... after all lets face it, a synth might have 400 presets, but 200 of those are mebbe just a chorus tweaked or envelope tweaked variation on a starter sound in bank_1 etc - so how lazy can you be to not make the merest alterations yourself to suit the track?... and thats the other thing...
synth sounds in dance... people have this idea that 'syth sounds' should be some sort of 'piano' type identifiable sound which again aint so... blips, bangs, squeeks & buzz's and other non identifiable sounds are the building blocks of dance music, because DANCE is about RHYTHMS and the sounds MUST compliment the rhythm FIRST ABOVE ANYTHING...
What it is NOT about, is quasi-european classical music movements played at gallop-speed quadruple-time on strident, dominating analog synths with block-square timing over a repetitive tedious square beat broken up by produced drum rolls & cymbal crescendo's... thats just not what it is about..
but as i say again... it's just an opinion, mebbe too harsh
... but i think it is unfair to attack a company/product, (any product), when you are obviously not the slightest bit interested in the ability of their product for how one should use it & the whole point of why it was created...anyways, he can sell it and buy a virus, and join the ranks of virus preset bland trance makers -
That is NOT having a go at Virus though, it is a VERY fine synth when in the hands of someone who creates something original with it.. but y'know.. like rebirth trance.. millions of trance tracks on the www, all with the same sounds, the same square boring rhythms... with no cross patterns, no other time signatures in cross patterns, nothing but: bash bash bash on the beat on the beat...
that is NOT trance ! - it is more like hard house, except hard house has style & humour and 'happy' & a cool offbeat bass too amongst other parts also driving offbeats to break up the banging beat which underpins it all... techno again thrives on cross rhythms as does garage and every other genre..... dance music isnt supposed to be this all-on-the-same-beat stuff.. it is a woven story of cross rhythms and motif's to take you on a journey or just to get you moving like mad, but it is woven...
why is it called TRANCE???.. does anyone ask themselves this even??.. is a 'trance' state bashed into someones skull with a sledgehammer?... or is it rather 'induced', so they are led into it, bit by bit, deeper and deeper, so that they suddenly unconciously find themselves in this place without knowing how they got there but they are in it deep, and it then takes them around inside this place at varying depths showing them the majesty of the various parts of the inside of the temple.... what we have as the alternative is just like sex without foreplay - "drop your knickers love and take that!".. bang bang bang....
Look, I make music, and for a long time.. and really truly, it's ludicrous for anyone to suggest that ANY make of synth on the market is responsible somehow for your ability or otherwise to make good music - it's a total myth! - the Nova series will make ANY genre of music.. and thats that... so will many other synths.. all it requires is genuine motivation on the part of the user....
Now, all I'm saying is really, nothing preset-wise is going to make his music 'better'... what he needs to do is learn the genre, the subtleties of that genre and that'll serve him FAR better than seeking presets in terms of making his music something people WANT to buy or dance to... but sure, if you like it fair enuff, but sometimes as the remit of this site, i gotta say these things, he just happened to be the unlucky example because really, if you are going to come and use the forum to just pop in, bash the company/product, then just dissapear again fine.... but take some equal criticism back in return mebbe and see what it is like to be on the receiving end of what you give out ... It's not personal, and all the more NOT personal cos there's NOTHING 'personal' about that music at all as far as I can see... it could be anyone making it cos there is thousands of tracks out there exactly the same, indistinguishable from one another.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 13/30 17-Aug-01 @ 11:37 AM - RE: New soundset for the NOVA ????
Hi k,
all in all it is right that the best way would be to sell
the Nova and to buy a Waldorf Q instead...
for my way of making music.
I´m inspired by presets, and it is ok for me,
remeber what I said in my first posting :
"I know your arguments, "make your own sounds" and bla bla, but I have no time for this kind of work, I need some more banks with different sounds, which I finally rework for the song, but I like to be inspired by new sounds."
That was the point, and this is the reason why
the Nova is not so good for me like the Access Virus, where you can download a lot of cool Banks, where the new OS 4.0 comes up with 2 completely new Banks (C+D).
And it is possible to get soundstuff from 3rd companies.
This all is not possible with the Nova,
there are no free banks,
there is a new OS with "optimized" sounds but just 10 new ones,
there are no 3rd companies producing sounds for a cool synth.
The Nova has cool features, that was the reason for me to buy it,
but it is more than 2 years ago (first I had the Supernova)...
But the sound is getting more and more boring,
especially with no new sounds,
and I think I will sell it the next month,
although I know I could use it when the politic of Novation would be different.
But I think they have not enough money (or another reason, I dont know)
to let someone do some cool banks,
and lazy people like me dont get happy
for a longer time.
I dont want to attack the company, but I think it was the last synth I bought from Novation, that´s all.
In fact I´m doing Pop-Music with Trance/Techno-Elements, but I´m not making a new Style,
for me its more important to produce a cool pop-song,
maybe the songs are boring for you,
but I´m more at Modern Talking or Scooter than at Mjik van Dyk,
so "each to there own" like Jamie said;)
Best Regards,
bene
all in all it is right that the best way would be to sell
the Nova and to buy a Waldorf Q instead...
for my way of making music.
I´m inspired by presets, and it is ok for me,
remeber what I said in my first posting :
"I know your arguments, "make your own sounds" and bla bla, but I have no time for this kind of work, I need some more banks with different sounds, which I finally rework for the song, but I like to be inspired by new sounds."
That was the point, and this is the reason why
the Nova is not so good for me like the Access Virus, where you can download a lot of cool Banks, where the new OS 4.0 comes up with 2 completely new Banks (C+D).
And it is possible to get soundstuff from 3rd companies.
This all is not possible with the Nova,
there are no free banks,
there is a new OS with "optimized" sounds but just 10 new ones,
there are no 3rd companies producing sounds for a cool synth.
The Nova has cool features, that was the reason for me to buy it,
but it is more than 2 years ago (first I had the Supernova)...
But the sound is getting more and more boring,
especially with no new sounds,
and I think I will sell it the next month,
although I know I could use it when the politic of Novation would be different.
But I think they have not enough money (or another reason, I dont know)
to let someone do some cool banks,
and lazy people like me dont get happy
for a longer time.
I dont want to attack the company, but I think it was the last synth I bought from Novation, that´s all.
In fact I´m doing Pop-Music with Trance/Techno-Elements, but I´m not making a new Style,
for me its more important to produce a cool pop-song,
maybe the songs are boring for you,
but I´m more at Modern Talking or Scooter than at Mjik van Dyk,
so "each to there own" like Jamie said;)
Best Regards,
bene
Message 14/30 17-Aug-01 @ 12:54 PM - RE: New soundset for the NOVA ????
Hi bene,
This is not a knock at you music, its to do with the sound creation side. I not trying
to offend just to give you some pointers
You should have a go at making your own sounds, believe me, its so much fun. I
spend more time making sounds than music, i love it. If you make your own sounds
you are one step into creating a personal touch. I still use other peoples patches but i
try to add some of the ones that i have created to a track I agree the pre-sets are
boring, but as K said these are to show what the synth can do to a perspective
customer, i.e., look it can do bell sounds, bass sounds, sfx sounds etc. The whole
ethos of the nova/supernova is to make your own sounds, that's why there is so
many knobs on the front. If you want pre-sets then you should have bought a sound
module rather than a synth. I think the reason that novation haven't produced loads
of sound sets, is the fact that the synth is so easy to program.
If you spend 2 hours understanding what each of the various areas on the synth do,
then you will have all the tools in you head to construct the sounds that you want. Try
this link, is was excellent for me when i first started trying to understand what was
going on:
http://tyala.freeyellow.com/t2ansynt.htm
I still use it now!
It seems a shame that you have a wonderful piece of equipment sitting there no being
used for the job it was intended for.
Please don't sell your synth, because one day you will want to program your own
sounds and look back and wish you still had your nova.
I find on this forum, the egroups forum and in life in general, people are a lot more
friendly and willing to help if you have first made and attempt at something yourself.
When i first read the post from K i thought it was a bit rude, but i now understand
what he getting at and respect his views.
If you need any help please post messages, i am not an expert by far, but i will try to
help, i am sure some will be able to help. I do have some sound creation tutorials
somewhere if you want me to post them to you.
Good luck - Jamie
This is not a knock at you music, its to do with the sound creation side. I not trying
to offend just to give you some pointers
You should have a go at making your own sounds, believe me, its so much fun. I
spend more time making sounds than music, i love it. If you make your own sounds
you are one step into creating a personal touch. I still use other peoples patches but i
try to add some of the ones that i have created to a track I agree the pre-sets are
boring, but as K said these are to show what the synth can do to a perspective
customer, i.e., look it can do bell sounds, bass sounds, sfx sounds etc. The whole
ethos of the nova/supernova is to make your own sounds, that's why there is so
many knobs on the front. If you want pre-sets then you should have bought a sound
module rather than a synth. I think the reason that novation haven't produced loads
of sound sets, is the fact that the synth is so easy to program.
If you spend 2 hours understanding what each of the various areas on the synth do,
then you will have all the tools in you head to construct the sounds that you want. Try
this link, is was excellent for me when i first started trying to understand what was
going on:
http://tyala.freeyellow.com/t2ansynt.htm
I still use it now!
It seems a shame that you have a wonderful piece of equipment sitting there no being
used for the job it was intended for.
Please don't sell your synth, because one day you will want to program your own
sounds and look back and wish you still had your nova.
I find on this forum, the egroups forum and in life in general, people are a lot more
friendly and willing to help if you have first made and attempt at something yourself.
When i first read the post from K i thought it was a bit rude, but i now understand
what he getting at and respect his views.
If you need any help please post messages, i am not an expert by far, but i will try to
help, i am sure some will be able to help. I do have some sound creation tutorials
somewhere if you want me to post them to you.
Good luck - Jamie
Message 15/30 17-Aug-01 @ 08:17 PM - RE: New soundset for the NOVA ????
System85. Keep up the good work. I compared it to other links here and it´s real good. A lot of people today work the same way you do. You take a preset and tweak it. It does take a long time to start from scratch with every sound and many of us work under a deadline. Especially when remixing. And Satori, Improve your own music before you critisize others.
Message 16/30 18-Aug-01 @ 01:52 AM - RE: New soundset for the NOVA ????
Pepe
". And Satori, Improve your own music before you criticize others."
Firstly:
Question: Who was criticized by me? ;-P
Secondly:
As omen has said:
"I do agree with criticism, but its got to be constructive."
Don't tell me BS. Tell me what I should improve.
It is obvious, that you are talking about music! ;-P
Or… give me link to your music, I’ll criticize, constructively.
I’m not hiding! ;-P
". And Satori, Improve your own music before you criticize others."
Firstly:
Question: Who was criticized by me? ;-P
Secondly:
As omen has said:
"I do agree with criticism, but its got to be constructive."
Don't tell me BS. Tell me what I should improve.
It is obvious, that you are talking about music! ;-P
Or… give me link to your music, I’ll criticize, constructively.
I’m not hiding! ;-P
Message 17/30 18-Aug-01 @ 09:19 AM - RE: New soundset for the NOVA ????
K, as far as I remember you never made comments about the partly dilettantic musical attempts like e.g. mine in this forum.
It's astonishing that Benes - at least from the technical point of view more advanced tracks - seem to make you really nervous because they tend into a kind of commercial corner ;-)
Most people who make music copy a style, only a few are able to develop new impulses.
Most people who listen to music listen to styles they are used to and that they rerecognize, only a few have the patience and ability to pay tribute to new musical developments.
There are people like me who enjoy to MAKE music and sounds but are not very much interested in the result. Others make their music on condition that as many people as possible shall listen to it.
I'm not sure if it makes sense to judge about the different interests of making music.
In terms of Benes criticism of Novation:
I feal that synth manufacturers have to get used to their customers impatience in the future and they have to react to survive.
I once read that 98% of synthesizers that are sent in for a repair contain exclusively factory sounds.
Novation should for my opinion examine, if the presence of prefabricated soundsets might as well be a factor for their commercial success.
This may be sad for purists, but an economical need.
Regards
Stefan
It's astonishing that Benes - at least from the technical point of view more advanced tracks - seem to make you really nervous because they tend into a kind of commercial corner ;-)
Most people who make music copy a style, only a few are able to develop new impulses.
Most people who listen to music listen to styles they are used to and that they rerecognize, only a few have the patience and ability to pay tribute to new musical developments.
There are people like me who enjoy to MAKE music and sounds but are not very much interested in the result. Others make their music on condition that as many people as possible shall listen to it.
I'm not sure if it makes sense to judge about the different interests of making music.
In terms of Benes criticism of Novation:
I feal that synth manufacturers have to get used to their customers impatience in the future and they have to react to survive.
I once read that 98% of synthesizers that are sent in for a repair contain exclusively factory sounds.
Novation should for my opinion examine, if the presence of prefabricated soundsets might as well be a factor for their commercial success.
This may be sad for purists, but an economical need.
Regards
Stefan
Message 18/30 19-Aug-01 @ 08:44 PM - RE: New soundset for the NOVA ????
That is a very interesting point...that should also be beneficial for both preset junkies and puritists alike...
since I believe creativity is never something done totally solo but rather a symbiosis of the works of others and past experiences...by this I mean that not only will good presets inspire users to be even more creative also will more users (due to better marketing) of a certain synth spawn better sounds due to symbioisi, influencing and 'competition'...that's partly why many good artists in certain timeframes come from the same region (italy during the renaicance, france in the 9th century) because people inspire eachother and challenge eachother to strive for even more artistry...
Even preset users can turn in to talented soundshapers once they realise that using just presets will most likely result in them sounding like everybody else...
I'm probably a bit vague sounding...and for the record: I certainly dont think that 85's music was a piece of art or a landmark in musical history.
I would stil love some extra soundbounks for my nova, to learn from, to inspire me even more, to have fun with and even (shame on me) to use in stuff I create...why not?
since I believe creativity is never something done totally solo but rather a symbiosis of the works of others and past experiences...by this I mean that not only will good presets inspire users to be even more creative also will more users (due to better marketing) of a certain synth spawn better sounds due to symbioisi, influencing and 'competition'...that's partly why many good artists in certain timeframes come from the same region (italy during the renaicance, france in the 9th century) because people inspire eachother and challenge eachother to strive for even more artistry...
Even preset users can turn in to talented soundshapers once they realise that using just presets will most likely result in them sounding like everybody else...
I'm probably a bit vague sounding...and for the record: I certainly dont think that 85's music was a piece of art or a landmark in musical history.
I would stil love some extra soundbounks for my nova, to learn from, to inspire me even more, to have fun with and even (shame on me) to use in stuff I create...why not?
Message 19/30 20-Aug-01 @ 05:39 PM - RE: New soundset for the NOVA ????
Like I said, it's only my opinion, you are free also to not like my music for sure. But i DONT agree I'm saying anything here because 'it's commercial' - I dont find that stuff of bene's commercial AT ALL - and i like alot of commercial music if it's well crafted and doesnt take itself too seriously. I dont recall listening to your tunes Stephan... but my comments has nothing to do with 'commerciality' that's for sure it's about lack of integrity of the structure of the music.
i dont think Bene's composition enhances a 'pop commercial' element as much as it could if some time was spent on the composition and sounds because to me it has no definition to seperate it from the thousands of other 'trance' tracks on the www. How can you have a trance track being 'pop' ??... it just doesn't go together.
If you mean commercial trance then my comments stand cos it's not got enuff character to stand out as a commercial track imo due it's generic sounds & composition/structure. With so many Trance clones out there you need more production subtlety & character to stand out & definately stronger hooks & more production of the linear progress with a production leaning towards emphasising those hooks as chorus points which stand out as high points. -
On the track 'Voice of trance' - well the start is like someone cut the disk in somwhere around the two minute mark after a main build point it's just 'one two three, bang !! & in we go' full on.... there is no establishing of any sort of atmosphere, the song is over before you've even got into it, he just gives it all away immeadiatly and everything after that is just repetition of what youve already heard there is nothing to look forward to or anticipate, it's like sex which is just all on the same level - 'bang bang bang' endlessly becomes VERY boring (Just ask your girlfreind... The track has no high points & no low points, and after you hear it there is nothing much to remember cos everything is at the same functional level from the first intro & therefore there is no 'hook' at all.
So to me it has no coherent structure at all which is conducive to the genre of 'pop' or commercial trance if a trance track with a vocal is 'commercial trance' that is. I dont hear any 'pop' music in there at all in the sense of what 'pop' production is in terms of it's 'laws' or techniques yet is has all the cheezy pop elements cobbled together which drag it down as a serious bit of music.
If it's pop then produce it like pop so there is a structure & people remember the hooks & motif's - But you cant swamp the listener immeadiatly with a full-on blast of characterless full-on banging then expect them to remember anything after that if it's all just banging away endlessly from the word go -
However, if it's 'trance', then what i'd like to hear more is some trance things happening, which to me means alternative time signature based patterns & cross-rhythm grooves appearing and worming their way gradualy into your conciousness before becoming dominant themes after some movement to bring them to the fore and drop others to the back etc, builds working to explosive hooklines etc. generaly i'd like to hear sounds created/tweaked to fit the music and create vital interesting parts. the whole point of trance when you are tripping and dancing to it is that it contains many levels/rhythms and you can choose which rhythm to dance to, or allocate your different body parts to move to different patterns within the music all at the same time. But this track is just 'all in', plays, then stops..
i dont think Bene's composition enhances a 'pop commercial' element as much as it could if some time was spent on the composition and sounds because to me it has no definition to seperate it from the thousands of other 'trance' tracks on the www. How can you have a trance track being 'pop' ??... it just doesn't go together.
If you mean commercial trance then my comments stand cos it's not got enuff character to stand out as a commercial track imo due it's generic sounds & composition/structure. With so many Trance clones out there you need more production subtlety & character to stand out & definately stronger hooks & more production of the linear progress with a production leaning towards emphasising those hooks as chorus points which stand out as high points. -
On the track 'Voice of trance' - well the start is like someone cut the disk in somwhere around the two minute mark after a main build point it's just 'one two three, bang !! & in we go' full on.... there is no establishing of any sort of atmosphere, the song is over before you've even got into it, he just gives it all away immeadiatly and everything after that is just repetition of what youve already heard there is nothing to look forward to or anticipate, it's like sex which is just all on the same level - 'bang bang bang' endlessly becomes VERY boring (Just ask your girlfreind
... The track has no high points & no low points, and after you hear it there is nothing much to remember cos everything is at the same functional level from the first intro & therefore there is no 'hook' at all. So to me it has no coherent structure at all which is conducive to the genre of 'pop' or commercial trance if a trance track with a vocal is 'commercial trance' that is. I dont hear any 'pop' music in there at all in the sense of what 'pop' production is in terms of it's 'laws' or techniques yet is has all the cheezy pop elements cobbled together which drag it down as a serious bit of music.
If it's pop then produce it like pop so there is a structure & people remember the hooks & motif's - But you cant swamp the listener immeadiatly with a full-on blast of characterless full-on banging then expect them to remember anything after that if it's all just banging away endlessly from the word go -
However, if it's 'trance', then what i'd like to hear more is some trance things happening, which to me means alternative time signature based patterns & cross-rhythm grooves appearing and worming their way gradualy into your conciousness before becoming dominant themes after some movement to bring them to the fore and drop others to the back etc, builds working to explosive hooklines etc. generaly i'd like to hear sounds created/tweaked to fit the music and create vital interesting parts. the whole point of trance when you are tripping and dancing to it is that it contains many levels/rhythms and you can choose which rhythm to dance to, or allocate your different body parts to move to different patterns within the music all at the same time. But this track is just 'all in', plays, then stops..
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 20/30 20-Aug-01 @ 05:48 PM - RE: New soundset for the NOVA ????
(just to add) - "But the sound is getting more and more boring" - thats what you say Bene, and I agree.. and I didnt even hear your stuff before. - BUT I think that is you (mebbe) saying to yourself that YOU are bored with what YOU are producing - mebbe it's time to move to another level then??... cos i dont know if adding a waldorf with some new presets will keep you interested that long. I'm not saying DONT change synth, but i dont think that alone will be enuff somehow.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Pages: 1 2 3
There are 30 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
