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Forums - The lounge
Subject: enlightenment?
Original Message Date: 14-Oct-02 @ 03:10 PM - enlightenment?
Okay - so with some elections coming up, of particular interest to me is the election for governor in my homestate of Taxachusetts, I decided it was time to check the candidates. Over the last couple of years here at DT, my awareness of the fundamental problems with our countries political situation has risen significantly. While still a supporter of my country and many of the positions it stands for, I have found myself increasingly abandoned by the mainstream parties. On many issues, I was represented by one party or the other, but as the years have gone by, the 2 major parties in the US have gotten closer and closer to each other. Kind of frightening. Not news to many of you here, but for me, changing my political views is a gradual process.
So this year I registered Libertarian, after voting for Nader last year. I'm not anti-big business, but I am anti-big business with its forays into politics. I also don't think zero state income tax is going to work either. So perhaps libertarian is not where it's at.
Soooo, my research came up with the green party. And this bit of information I found particularly interesting...
http://www.therealdifference.com/difference2.html
Perhaps I am Green, then? Jill Stein (candidate for governor in Taxachusetts) is on target, I think.
So for the other Americans around here, is there anyone willing to answer the questions "who are you voting for" and "why"?
So this year I registered Libertarian, after voting for Nader last year. I'm not anti-big business, but I am anti-big business with its forays into politics. I also don't think zero state income tax is going to work either. So perhaps libertarian is not where it's at.
Soooo, my research came up with the green party. And this bit of information I found particularly interesting...
http://www.therealdifference.com/difference2.html
Perhaps I am Green, then? Jill Stein (candidate for governor in Taxachusetts) is on target, I think.
So for the other Americans around here, is there anyone willing to answer the questions "who are you voting for" and "why"?
Message 11/37 15-Oct-02 @ 02:24 AM - RE: enlightenment?
BJT
Posts: 90
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Im not american but welldone Def. That green party looks the ticket.
Message 12/37 15-Oct-02 @ 09:03 AM - RE: enlightenment?
How much does it matter, the corp.s have the power.
OK I normally vote apathy - they are all the same wanting to hold the conch, professional politicians come in second oldest behind the pro's. MY PROBLEM is morality. These guys are our moral leaders yet they are deffinately the least morally strong, eg - they have a belief - perhaps it started their pilgrimage. So the fire is there, the choice of party may be open but probably (like faith) they move to tune of their upbringing AND (probably) toward parties already with power. What they do there? bend, bend their belief to the party line, loosing their moral position at the first vote, becomeing sheep to the whips.
Professional politician, relative advantage can be achieved (possibly more so) by reducing the competition than building the self.
I know I have to begin to understand that my 1 vote is exactly the same as everyone elses and makes a difference but still I think that they are corrupt, using increasingly eficient levers to manipulate toward... - that's where it gets too big for me to think about.
arrrgh can't do nothing must do something, for just 1 teeny vote. Research your vote when everything is spin, liars gambol in the fields, a system builds to divert us and replace bastions of honour
A BIG ONE. Bread and circuses, we have the most advanced circus development ever hedonism technologyvaleys full of it, enticing women queueing to fill it, - forgive me for saying but all of this is a diversion - not dfrom any 'true wayTM' but the difference between what you do in 1 night depending on weather you have a TV or not. The opporunities for tech entertainment to take the energy right out of you is HUGE man, - where is the social in that. Divide and rule, "Oh yeah JIm and I like to spend the evening together in front of the TV...Kids, no time really what with Jims job and my cats"
No 'true way, no true way, no true way" I am corrupt
OK I normally vote apathy - they are all the same wanting to hold the conch, professional politicians come in second oldest behind the pro's. MY PROBLEM is morality. These guys are our moral leaders yet they are deffinately the least morally strong, eg - they have a belief - perhaps it started their pilgrimage. So the fire is there, the choice of party may be open but probably (like faith) they move to tune of their upbringing AND (probably) toward parties already with power. What they do there? bend, bend their belief to the party line, loosing their moral position at the first vote, becomeing sheep to the whips.
Professional politician, relative advantage can be achieved (possibly more so) by reducing the competition than building the self.
I know I have to begin to understand that my 1 vote is exactly the same as everyone elses and makes a difference but still I think that they are corrupt, using increasingly eficient levers to manipulate toward... - that's where it gets too big for me to think about.
arrrgh can't do nothing must do something, for just 1 teeny vote. Research your vote when everything is spin, liars gambol in the fields, a system builds to divert us and replace bastions of honour
A BIG ONE. Bread and circuses, we have the most advanced circus development ever hedonism technologyvaleys full of it, enticing women queueing to fill it, - forgive me for saying but all of this is a diversion - not dfrom any 'true wayTM' but the difference between what you do in 1 night depending on weather you have a TV or not. The opporunities for tech entertainment to take the energy right out of you is HUGE man, - where is the social in that. Divide and rule, "Oh yeah JIm and I like to spend the evening together in front of the TV...Kids, no time really what with Jims job and my cats"
No 'true way, no true way, no true way" I am corrupt
Message 13/37 15-Oct-02 @ 09:50 AM - RE: enlightenment?
its really fucking hard not to say "awww fuck it because I really DONT make a difference"
because the fact of the matter is...I DONT!
vote green, libertarian, anarchist...WHATEVER, and its not going to matter...because no matter how RIGHT any of em might be...no matter how fucking good the change they might bring to the country...theyll never get or STAY in office
errata...sorry..guess I misread. That sniper thing is a trip. At first...and yeah Im a bit sick...at first I was thinking "hmmm, maybe this person has an inside line on these people he is killing? Maybe they deserve it?"
but then...look at em. Kids? Old ladies? Old men mowing the lawn?
hard to comprehend
anyway..the voting thing..Ive done it the last few years just so I could say I did. I still dont fucking believe in it. Yet another smoke screen to keep us all feeling like we have any say
MONEY RUNS THIS COUNTRY. Always has, probably always will
because the fact of the matter is...I DONT!
vote green, libertarian, anarchist...WHATEVER, and its not going to matter...because no matter how RIGHT any of em might be...no matter how fucking good the change they might bring to the country...theyll never get or STAY in office
errata...sorry..guess I misread. That sniper thing is a trip. At first...and yeah Im a bit sick...at first I was thinking "hmmm, maybe this person has an inside line on these people he is killing? Maybe they deserve it?"
but then...look at em. Kids? Old ladies? Old men mowing the lawn?
hard to comprehend
anyway..the voting thing..Ive done it the last few years just so I could say I did. I still dont fucking believe in it. Yet another smoke screen to keep us all feeling like we have any say
MONEY RUNS THIS COUNTRY. Always has, probably always will
Message 14/37 15-Oct-02 @ 01:05 PM - RE: enlightenment?
"Yet another smoke screen to keep us all feeling like we have any say"
not that i'm in favour of anything in particular, but ^ is probably a good thing where jim bob et al. are concerned.
not that i'm in favour of anything in particular, but ^ is probably a good thing where jim bob et al. are concerned.
Message 15/37 15-Oct-02 @ 03:55 PM - RE: enlightenment?
yeah I'm torn between a commitment to human potential and observations of it's absymal depravity.
to me voting only highlights how little control we have. democracy is a noble idea, and it's been reduced to mean "walk into a little booth and choose between two crooks (and a few other's predestined losers)". I vote for the losers anyway. usually green.
hey influx, what's "too feminist" about the greens? I'm not challenging you, just a question, like I'm wondering if some of their candidates have some kooky version of it.
word to Def Z.
to me voting only highlights how little control we have. democracy is a noble idea, and it's been reduced to mean "walk into a little booth and choose between two crooks (and a few other's predestined losers)". I vote for the losers anyway. usually green.
hey influx, what's "too feminist" about the greens? I'm not challenging you, just a question, like I'm wondering if some of their candidates have some kooky version of it.
word to Def Z.
Message 16/37 15-Oct-02 @ 05:25 PM - RE: enlightenment?
pict
Posts: 1005
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Those that seek power should be barred from ever having it.I think the desire for power over the lives of others is the most consuming and negative of all desires.I think some of these guys start off with good intentions but especially in the case of politics good intentions pave the road to hell.In Glasgow they have this guy Tommy Sheridan who spouts a lot about socialism and corporate greed he's a member of the Scottish parliament but since his rise to prominence gone are the jeans,donkey jacket and Lenin cap and now he struts about in Armani suits that probably cost about as much as some of the people he represents earn in 6 months of course he does things like get arrested for protesting outside of nuclear bases etc but that is simply playing to his target audience and he milks his scheme background for all he's worth in order to legitimise himself with the poor who vote for him.He puts forward nice ideas like free school meals for all knowing full well that the ruling politicians will reject it and he gets to look like a good guy,politicians and domestic politics are really that basic.There are no political parties around that put forward a vision of a society that I would like to live in.I'm sure we all have different ideas of what Utopia would be like but surely it's possible to implement the basic elements of such a society to the satisfaction of the vast majority of us or is what we've got now as good as it gets?
Message 17/37 15-Oct-02 @ 06:00 PM - RE: enlightenment?
I've always been a fan of the idea that we should nominate our prospective leaders from a pool of those who didn't ask for the job. A sure sign that someone is poorly suited to the task of leadership is that they had to ask for it!
I vote green because I vote my conscious! It's this pro football culture that has F*cked up democracy with this notion that you should only vote for a guy if he can WIN!!! Sad... The lesser of two evils will still screw up the system, your life and the lives of others.
e
I vote green because I vote my conscious! It's this pro football culture that has F*cked up democracy with this notion that you should only vote for a guy if he can WIN!!! Sad... The lesser of two evils will still screw up the system, your life and the lives of others.
e
Message 18/37 15-Oct-02 @ 08:50 PM - RE: enlightenment?
i always rush home to see if the vote fairy left me 50p under the pillow after
Message 19/37 15-Oct-02 @ 09:40 PM - RE: enlightenment?
I don't vote along party lines. I will always vote for someone without a law degree over someone who has, except in the rare circumstance that that particular candidate is really fucked.
One thing that is exciting me this time is all 3 candidates running for Governer of New York have expressed interest in modifying the Rockefeller Drug Laws (20 year mandatory minimums for certain possession charges). One wants the repealed outright.
We have an even worse situation in Buffalo city government. The mayor has run unopposed since '94, and most of the council seats have been occupied by the same asses for 10 years or more, some as far back as 30 years. Did I mention Buffalo is almost bankrupt? Or that the population has dropped by about 300,000 people in the last 20 years? Or that there's no jobs? Or that we have some of the highest tax rates in the country here?
What floors me is, THESE PEOPLE GET RE-ELECTED!!!
Thank God I live in the 'burbs
-Craig
One thing that is exciting me this time is all 3 candidates running for Governer of New York have expressed interest in modifying the Rockefeller Drug Laws (20 year mandatory minimums for certain possession charges). One wants the repealed outright.
We have an even worse situation in Buffalo city government. The mayor has run unopposed since '94, and most of the council seats have been occupied by the same asses for 10 years or more, some as far back as 30 years. Did I mention Buffalo is almost bankrupt? Or that the population has dropped by about 300,000 people in the last 20 years? Or that there's no jobs? Or that we have some of the highest tax rates in the country here?
What floors me is, THESE PEOPLE GET RE-ELECTED!!!
Thank God I live in the 'burbs
-Craig
Message 20/37 15-Oct-02 @ 10:15 PM - RE: enlightenment?
I rarely vote cos I rarely care. Never did any good anyway. I do like errata's "none of the above" idea, though... Politicians (all of 'em) play with people's lives and livelihood in a fucked up system of checks and balances. All of which I find most distasteful. They do not "flow," they attempt to regulate the flow. Foolish mortals....
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