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Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: Cheaper monitors the way?
Original Message Date: 29-Jan-03 @ 02:20 AM - Cheaper monitors the way?
Ok, Really struggling with my mixing here-
Im using a pair of JBL studio series monitors (forget model number)and am thinking of changing them- I can get my mixes to sound pretty good on them, A/B'ing against pro tracks sounds similar. i listen on a couple of hi-fi's round the house and everything sounds well spaced out and eq'd. The mix sounds comparable(ish) to the tracks im listening against.
Im working in clubs 2 or 3 nights a week so i can listen to them on a big system, however, as soon as they get played across a club system they sound dreadful.
My friend has got these ancient shabby sony speakers hooked up to his stereo and when i played him the track, i could here exactly where the mix was wrong on his set-up, like i could on the big club systems.
Basically looking for any advice on where to go from here- they dont make ns-10's anymore right?
When i bought these monitors i A/B'd against a few others including Spirit Absolute's etc but ive now lost total faith in these jbl monitors along with my ears
Any thoughts appreciated
SpinbacK
Im using a pair of JBL studio series monitors (forget model number)and am thinking of changing them- I can get my mixes to sound pretty good on them, A/B'ing against pro tracks sounds similar. i listen on a couple of hi-fi's round the house and everything sounds well spaced out and eq'd. The mix sounds comparable(ish) to the tracks im listening against.
Im working in clubs 2 or 3 nights a week so i can listen to them on a big system, however, as soon as they get played across a club system they sound dreadful.
My friend has got these ancient shabby sony speakers hooked up to his stereo and when i played him the track, i could here exactly where the mix was wrong on his set-up, like i could on the big club systems.
Basically looking for any advice on where to go from here- they dont make ns-10's anymore right?
When i bought these monitors i A/B'd against a few others including Spirit Absolute's etc but ive now lost total faith in these jbl monitors along with my ears
Any thoughts appreciated
SpinbacK
Message 11/40 29-Jan-03 @ 08:20 PM Edit: 29-Jan-03 | 08:21 PM - RE: Cheaper monitors the way?
hmmmm... freq analyzer? I see where you're coming from, influx, but...
"The professionaly done tracks sound great at home AND out, Mine just sound good/ok at home and rubbish out."
Therein lies the problem. Just compare your stuff to pro stuff while you're mixing. Match levels and everything so you're only comparing tonal balances. If your stuff doesn't sound "great" like the pro mix does then you're not done yet! Simple as that. You can do it with any speaker system really.
psy
"The professionaly done tracks sound great at home AND out, Mine just sound good/ok at home and rubbish out."
Therein lies the problem. Just compare your stuff to pro stuff while you're mixing. Match levels and everything so you're only comparing tonal balances. If your stuff doesn't sound "great" like the pro mix does then you're not done yet! Simple as that. You can do it with any speaker system really.
psy
Message 12/40 29-Jan-03 @ 08:58 PM Edit: 29-Jan-03 | 09:26 PM - RE: Cheaper monitors the way?
i think his problem *might* also be a lack of "punch", which may have to do with either speakers with not so great dynamics, or more likely not knowing how to listen for "punch". i'm only saying this because i get mixes from people which sound rather good on a hifi, and even on monitors at normal listening volume, but as soon as you turn it up they turn into this big, swolen, bloated mess of sound which sounds rather poor and does not push air like you'd expect it too.
Spinback, you think i might be on to something?
Spinback, you think i might be on to something?
Message 13/40 29-Jan-03 @ 10:23 PM - RE: Cheaper monitors the way?
as soon as I typed frequency analyzer I realized I was setting someone up to use a crutch
ignore what I said, and just practice. youll get it
it very well could be crappy monitors. happens. but not quite as often as crappy sounds, crappy mixing environment, etc...
or so Ive been told. not like I really KNOW anything on my own
ignore what I said, and just practice. youll get it
it very well could be crappy monitors. happens. but not quite as often as crappy sounds, crappy mixing environment, etc...
or so Ive been told. not like I really KNOW anything on my own
Message 14/40 29-Jan-03 @ 10:37 PM - RE: Cheaper monitors the way?
"I spose i need todays equivalent of the ns-10?"
Get a pair of Genelec 1030's then!
Get a pair of Genelec 1030's then!
Message 16/40 30-Jan-03 @ 12:38 AM - RE: Cheaper monitors the way?
D- 'like rubbish how exactly? too much low end robbing headroom?'
ok heres what i did-
Compiled my drums and samples, did some loops in reason, edited etc, burned cd and loaded them into G4/PT 5l.e 24bit session.
Recorded all synth parts green/yellow
Arranged track, routed individual tracks across 6 or 7 busses, and onto a Stereo master, being very careful not to drive any of the busses hard onto the master.
Master Output from PT card through Mackie1202, with a bit of Master gain, into the PC!
The track sounded great at home, went out and it sounded like:-
Drums- too loud/ no thickness.
Hats- far to sharp
Synth- no audible midrange hardly
Bass- Too loud, boomy.
As hard as it is to believe i didnt notice any of this at home!?
Now, like i said at start, i could here the exact same faults on my friends old fuŁked speakers like i could in the club, he said he thought they were sony's but they were that old they didnt have grills/badges so i cant be sure- anyway they were VERY revealing, if i had something like that at home i could fix the mix no problem. Im presuming this to be why people used those yamaha's? ive never heard them, but i could really use something like those.
ok heres what i did-
Compiled my drums and samples, did some loops in reason, edited etc, burned cd and loaded them into G4/PT 5l.e 24bit session.
Recorded all synth parts green/yellow
Arranged track, routed individual tracks across 6 or 7 busses, and onto a Stereo master, being very careful not to drive any of the busses hard onto the master.
Master Output from PT card through Mackie1202, with a bit of Master gain, into the PC!
The track sounded great at home, went out and it sounded like:-
Drums- too loud/ no thickness.
Hats- far to sharp
Synth- no audible midrange hardly
Bass- Too loud, boomy.
As hard as it is to believe i didnt notice any of this at home!?
Now, like i said at start, i could here the exact same faults on my friends old fuŁked speakers like i could in the club, he said he thought they were sony's but they were that old they didnt have grills/badges so i cant be sure- anyway they were VERY revealing, if i had something like that at home i could fix the mix no problem. Im presuming this to be why people used those yamaha's? ive never heard them, but i could really use something like those.
Message 17/40 30-Jan-03 @ 01:00 AM - RE: Cheaper monitors the way?
milan- the punch thing
Under my log in name (BlooVooDoo) theres a mix e'qed with these mystery monitors, and while the song isnt really that good the mix sounds incredible both at home and in the clubs, especially in the club systems actually. This is why im so upset, i feel like im pissin into the wind with these JBL's , wish i had the model number of them!
Under my log in name (BlooVooDoo) theres a mix e'qed with these mystery monitors, and while the song isnt really that good the mix sounds incredible both at home and in the clubs, especially in the club systems actually. This is why im so upset, i feel like im pissin into the wind with these JBL's , wish i had the model number of them!
Message 18/40 30-Jan-03 @ 02:47 AM - RE: Cheaper monitors the way?
"Master Output from PT card through Mackie1202, with a bit of Master gain, into the PC! "
just curious but WHY? why not just mixdown in protools?
and also:
"Compiled my drums and samples, did some loops in reason, edited etc, burned cd and loaded them into G4/PT 5l.e 24bit session. "
again..WHY you only have reason for your PC? not that this really matters in the sound quality necessarily..but..
to be honest it just sounds like you just need some practice mixing. Learning to use HighPass eq on sounds helps a lot (and is a nice perk to having a DAW...cuz Ive NEVER seen a budget mixer with variable highpass eq!)
just curious but WHY? why not just mixdown in protools?
and also:
"Compiled my drums and samples, did some loops in reason, edited etc, burned cd and loaded them into G4/PT 5l.e 24bit session. "
again..WHY
you only have reason for your PC? not that this really matters in the sound quality necessarily..but..to be honest it just sounds like you just need some practice mixing. Learning to use HighPass eq on sounds helps a lot (and is a nice perk to having a DAW...cuz Ive NEVER seen a budget mixer with variable highpass eq!)
Message 19/40 30-Jan-03 @ 03:02 AM - RE: Cheaper monitors the way?
influx,
the first one- dont have a cd burner on the mac (yet), so its the only way to get the track onto my pc/cd (although i borrowed my friends zip drive earlier which im about to try)
2nd- yes only on pc, before i got the mac
maybe Im just going to have to face facts that my ears are hopeless, grrr
although- when i was reading through a pile of old posts on monitoring i came across lots of posts on people saying stuff like -
" My -XXXXXX- monitors exagerate the top end so i always mix less than i think to make up for it"
I realise room dynamics play a part of the monitors sound but I cant be arsed mixing that way. I want a true uncoloured sounding monitor
the first one- dont have a cd burner on the mac (yet), so its the only way to get the track onto my pc/cd (although i borrowed my friends zip drive earlier which im about to try)
2nd- yes only on pc, before i got the mac
maybe Im just going to have to face facts that my ears are hopeless, grrr
although- when i was reading through a pile of old posts on monitoring i came across lots of posts on people saying stuff like -
" My -XXXXXX- monitors exagerate the top end so i always mix less than i think to make up for it"
I realise room dynamics play a part of the monitors sound but I cant be arsed mixing that way. I want a true uncoloured sounding monitor
Message 20/40 30-Jan-03 @ 04:20 AM - RE: Cheaper monitors the way?
theres almost no such thing it seems
some just dont f- things up as bad. maybe you need to switch
whats the model on the JBLs again? can help see if you can maybe get some $$ for em and get yourself something thatll suit you better
some just dont f- things up as bad. maybe you need to switch
whats the model on the JBLs again? can help see if you can maybe get some $$ for em and get yourself something thatll suit you better
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