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Forums - The lounge
Subject: Global Rallies....
Original Message Date: 15-Feb-03 @ 08:47 PM Edit: 15-Feb-03 | 08:48 PM - Global Rallies....
[image file]
"Anti-War Protesters Hold Global Rallies
Millions Gather in Cities Around the World to Protest Iraq War
By Robert Barr
The Associated Press
Saturday, February 15, 2003; 2:25 PM
Millions of protesters - many of them marching in the capitals of America's traditional allies - demonstrated Saturday against U.S. plans to attack Iraq.
In a global outpouring of anti-war sentiment, Rome claimed the biggest turnout - 1 million according to police, while organizers claimed three times that figure.
In London, at least 750,000 people joined in the city's biggest demonstration ever, police said. Berlin had up to half a million on the streets, and Paris was estimated to have had up to 100,000.
Peace activists hoped to draw 100,000 demonstrators in New York City later for a protest near the United Nations.
"Peace! Peace! Peace!" said Archbishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa, who led an ecumenical service near U.N. headquarters. "Let America listen to the rest of the world - and the rest of the world is saying, `Give the inspectors time.'"
London's marchers hoped - in the words of keynote speaker Rev. Jesse Jackson - to "turn up the heat" on Prime Minister Tony Blair, who has been President Bush's staunchest European ally for his tough Iraq policy.
Rome protesters showed their disagreement with Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's support for Bush, while demonstrators in Paris and Berlin backed the skeptical stances of their governments.
"What I would say to Mr. Blair is stop toadying up to the Americans and listen to your own people, us, for once," said Elsie Hinks, 77, who marched in London with her husband, Sidney, a retired Church of England priest.
"You don't fight terrorism with a preventive war," said Tommaso Palladini, 56, who traveled from Milan to Rome. "You fight terrorism by creating more justice in the world."
Several dozen marchers from Genoa held up pictures of Iraqi artists. "We're carrying these photos to show the other face of the Iraqi people that the TV doesn't show," said Giovanna Marenzana, 38.
Some leaders of German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's government took part in the Berlin protest, which turned the tree-lined boulevard between the Brandenburg Gate and the 19th-century Victory Column into a sea of banners, balloons emblazoned with "No war in Iraq" and demonstrators swaying to live music. Police estimated the crowd at between 300,000 and 500,000.
"We Germans in particular have a duty to do everything to ensure that war - above all a war of aggression - never again becomes a legitimate means of policy," shouted Friedrich Schorlemmer, a Lutheran pastor and former East German pro-democracy activist.
In the Paris crowd at the Place Denfert-Rochereau, a large American flag bore the black inscription: "Leave us alone."
Gerald Lenoir, 41, of Berkley, Calif., came to Paris specifically to support the French demonstrators. "I am here to protest my government's aggression against Iraq," he said. "Iraq does not pose a security threat to the United States and there are no links with al-Qaida."
In southern France, about 10,000 people demonstrated in Toulouse against the United States, chanting: "They bomb, they exploit, they pollute, enough of this barbarity."
Police estimated that 60,000 turned out in Oslo, Norway, 50,000 in bitter cold in Brussels, while about 35,000 gathered peacefully in frigid Stockholm.
About 80,000 marched in Dublin, Irish police said. Crowds were estimated at 60,000 in Seville, Spain; 40,000 in Bern, Switzerland; 30,000 in Glasgow, Scotland; 25,000 in Copenhagen; 15,000 in Vienna; 10,000 in Amsterdam; 5,000 in Cape Town and 4,000 in Johannesburg in South Africa; 5,000 in Tokyo; and 2,000 in Dhaka, Bangladesh.
"War is not a solution, war is a problem," Czech philosopher Erazim Kohak told a crowd of about 500 in Prague.
In Baghdad, tens of thousands of Iraqis, many carrying Kalashnikov assault rifles, demonstrated to support Saddam Hussein and denounce the United States.
"Our swords are out of their sheaths, ready for battle," read one of hundreds of banners carried by marchers along Palestine Street, a broad Baghdad avenue.
In Damascus, the capital of neighboring Syria, an estimated 200,000 protesters chanted anti-U.S. and anti-Israeli slogans as they marched to the People's Assembly.
Najjah Attar, a former Syrian cabinet minister, accused Washington of attempting to change the region's map. "The U.S. wants to encroach upon our own norms, concepts and principles," she said in Damascus. "They are reminding us of the Nazi and fascist times."
In Ukraine, some 2,000 people rallied in snowy Kiev's central square. Anti-globalists led a peaceful "Rock Against War" protest joined by communists, socialists, Kurds and pacifists.
In the Bosnian city of Mostar, about 100 Muslims and Croats united for an anti-war protest - the first such cross-community action in seven years in a place where ethnic divisions remain tense, despite the 1995 Bosnian peace agreement.
"We want to say that war is evil and that we who survived one know that better than anyone," said Majda Hadzic, 54.
In divided Cyprus, about 500 Greeks and Turks braved heavy rain for a march that briefly blocked a runway at a British air base.
Several thousand protesters in Athens, Greece, unfurled a giant banner across the wall of the Acropolis - "NATO, U.S. and EU equals War" - before heading toward the U.S. Embassy.
U.S. Ambassador Thomas Miller said the Greek protesters' indignation was misplaced. "They should be demonstrating outside the Iraqi embassy," he said before the march.
Police fired tear gas in clashes with several hundred anarchists wearing hoods and crash helmets, who smashed store windows and threw a gasoline bomb at a newspaper office. Thirteen youths were arrested, while five policemen and two protesters were injured.
In Moscow, 300 people marched to the U.S. Embassy, with one placard urging Russian President Vladimir Putin to "be firmer with America."
Between 3,000 and 5,000 people marched through a suburb of Canberra, the Australian capital, to protest government support for U.S. policy. Australia has already committed 2,000 troops to the Persian Gulf for possible action."
Message 11/29 18-Feb-03 @ 12:08 PM - RE: Global Rallies....
Those are manufacturers suggested retail prices.
Message 13/29 18-Feb-03 @ 02:28 PM - RE: Global Rallies....
well, EVERY single media here in montreal agree on 150 000.
my mistake tho', teperature was actually -14,8 fahrenheit. but you know, me and numbers, we make a pretty odd couple.
my mistake tho', teperature was actually -14,8 fahrenheit. but you know, me and numbers, we make a pretty odd couple.
Message 14/29 18-Feb-03 @ 05:43 PM Edit: 18-Feb-03 | 05:43 PM - RE: Global Rallies....
pict
Posts: 1005
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Just wait until a few dirty bombs go off and we'll see how pro peace the general population is then.I don't want war but there are a lot of of nations in the world who don't like the status quo being decided and maintained by the west.Can power be shared by peoples with diametrically opposed views?
Message 15/29 18-Feb-03 @ 07:39 PM - RE: Global Rallies....
it's all a diversion
"70 billion people here, where are they hiding?"
"70 billion people here, where are they hiding?"
Message 16/29 18-Feb-03 @ 08:47 PM - RE: Global Rallies....
funny Pict,
Bob hits Joe, Joe Hit's Bob back, Bob retaliates with a kick, joe kicks back etc... ad nauseum, eh?
So what's Bob to do? Kick Joe hard in the balls.. and kick him again! And Again. And then prop his bloody head on the curb and stomp it it till Joe can't move anymore!
It works for Bob!
e
Bob hits Joe, Joe Hit's Bob back, Bob retaliates with a kick, joe kicks back etc... ad nauseum, eh?
So what's Bob to do? Kick Joe hard in the balls.. and kick him again! And Again. And then prop his bloody head on the curb and stomp it it till Joe can't move anymore!
It works for Bob!
e
Message 17/29 18-Feb-03 @ 10:37 PM - RE: Global Rallies....
Message 18/29 18-Feb-03 @ 11:24 PM - RE: Global Rallies....
pict
Posts: 1005
Link?: No link
File?: No file
....and of course when Joe has recovered his heart will be filled with brotherly love and he will want to be just like Bob.
It's really very simple the tribe that has the big stick gets first pick at the goodies followed by their pals eventually they slip up and some other tribe gets the big stick.All empires and the lifestyles that they engender have developed through the siezing and control of resources there's always a tribe waiting in the wings for the chance to sieze power and build a new empire of their own imagining.
We in the west have to curb our appetites and change our outlook on life to an extent that not many people would be willing to.If you asked people in the west what they would be willing to change in their own lifestyles to benefit some 3rd world person you'd very quickly realise that the majority of westerners are obsessed with improving their own lot and only think in terms of costs to themselves,so therefore would be willing to give up or change very little.
I remember seeing a documentary the subject of which was the condition of Chinese orphanages,in one place there was a group of naked kids all scrawny and malnourished looking except for this one much larger,stronger,and fitter boy who was walking around the table taking the food from all the weaker kids and scoffing it down as fast as he could.
If you look at the world today you can see a lot of very similar behaviour,and although the(culturally informed)idea of Utopia(could be another man's dystopia?) gives me a warm fuzzy feeling,how to actually set about achieving such a state seems to be beyond our collective grasp,the evidence is the state of the world,man has become a slave to his own constructs.
I don't have the answers and even if I did the task of convincing the world population would be beyond my limited abilities the best I can hope to do is behave the way I feel is right and to possibly convince or inspire others to behave that way too.One thing I do know about human behaviour for as long as we've had history,force has always played a bigger role than persuasion.In the end all nations all over the world bow to the great god Mammon.How to change that? I wish I knew.
It's really very simple the tribe that has the big stick gets first pick at the goodies followed by their pals eventually they slip up and some other tribe gets the big stick.All empires and the lifestyles that they engender have developed through the siezing and control of resources there's always a tribe waiting in the wings for the chance to sieze power and build a new empire of their own imagining.
We in the west have to curb our appetites and change our outlook on life to an extent that not many people would be willing to.If you asked people in the west what they would be willing to change in their own lifestyles to benefit some 3rd world person you'd very quickly realise that the majority of westerners are obsessed with improving their own lot and only think in terms of costs to themselves,so therefore would be willing to give up or change very little.
I remember seeing a documentary the subject of which was the condition of Chinese orphanages,in one place there was a group of naked kids all scrawny and malnourished looking except for this one much larger,stronger,and fitter boy who was walking around the table taking the food from all the weaker kids and scoffing it down as fast as he could.
If you look at the world today you can see a lot of very similar behaviour,and although the(culturally informed)idea of Utopia(could be another man's dystopia?) gives me a warm fuzzy feeling,how to actually set about achieving such a state seems to be beyond our collective grasp,the evidence is the state of the world,man has become a slave to his own constructs.
I don't have the answers and even if I did the task of convincing the world population would be beyond my limited abilities the best I can hope to do is behave the way I feel is right and to possibly convince or inspire others to behave that way too.One thing I do know about human behaviour for as long as we've had history,force has always played a bigger role than persuasion.In the end all nations all over the world bow to the great god Mammon.How to change that? I wish I knew.
Message 19/29 19-Feb-03 @ 11:03 PM - RE: Global Rallies....
"the best I can hope to do is behave the way I feel is right and to possibly convince or inspire others to behave that way too"
That, i think, is exactly what the protests were about.
I'll personaly stop short of convincing others, though inspire sounds nice. Of course (and obviously) I'll offer my limited point of view in discussion, but trying to convince people is for me, a type of manipulation, which is a brand of control, which is easily taken by most people to be aggression. We must act in accordance with our words and offer what we hold on to and desire. Change is not made by external influences, but by the way in which we line up our priorities. The push and shove I detailed above is all fine and good for two monkeys with only one piece of fruit, but I'm hoping we might stop at nothing short of evolution. Someone has to be the friggin' grown up, right?
e
That, i think, is exactly what the protests were about.
I'll personaly stop short of convincing others, though inspire sounds nice. Of course (and obviously) I'll offer my limited point of view in discussion, but trying to convince people is for me, a type of manipulation, which is a brand of control, which is easily taken by most people to be aggression. We must act in accordance with our words and offer what we hold on to and desire. Change is not made by external influences, but by the way in which we line up our priorities. The push and shove I detailed above is all fine and good for two monkeys with only one piece of fruit, but I'm hoping we might stop at nothing short of evolution. Someone has to be the friggin' grown up, right?
e
Message 20/29 20-Feb-03 @ 04:12 AM - RE: Global Rallies....
I'm tired and haven't completely caught up on this thread, but I was talking (debating, arguing?) with my mom today. She tends to stick to Republican lines, so you can imagine how things went. She claimed that many of the protests were organized by Communist regimes. While obviously communism wasn't the focus of the rallies, does anyone else know about the organizers? My mom's a smart chick and wouldn't bullshit me, I don't think.
psy
psy
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