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Forums - The lounge
Subject: want to program?
Original Message Date: 26-Mar-03 @ 05:32 PM - want to program?
trying to learn c++ with no money was a total pain in the ass.. after all this time i finally found a language that's free, has decent power (can create exportable .exes.. want one??) and is well documented (after giving up several years ago back when the old people saying 'qbasic is in dos' still thought it was.)
i don't believe it codes .dlls (for vsti) directly but it handles a lot of other things, ie. com ports. i wouldn't expect the performance of c++ but if you've ever wanted to build your own midi sequencer, audio arranger and are as abhorrent of finance as i, here you go.
already written my own 'wordpad' app after about 5 hours! successfully opened, created, edited files!
i don't believe it codes .dlls (for vsti) directly but it handles a lot of other things, ie. com ports. i wouldn't expect the performance of c++ but if you've ever wanted to build your own midi sequencer, audio arranger and are as abhorrent of finance as i, here you go.
already written my own 'wordpad' app after about 5 hours! successfully opened, created, edited files!
Message 11/45 28-Mar-03 @ 06:59 PM - RE: want to program?
what do you mean by "learning c++ with no money is a pain in the ass"? i learned it without money... just grab a book from the library and dL a free compiler.
if you're on linux, fire up gcc.
i dunno.. i love c/c++ (psy metnioned pascal.. yeah, that was the bomb too, but i've forgotten most of that though occassionally the := slipts through ;))...
anyway.. i'm waiting for swan to come by.. he mentioned darkbasic (? haven't taken a look yet)
-j
if you're on linux, fire up gcc.
i dunno.. i love c/c++ (psy metnioned pascal.. yeah, that was the bomb too, but i've forgotten most of that though occassionally the := slipts through ;))...
anyway.. i'm waiting for swan to come by.. he mentioned darkbasic (? haven't taken a look yet)
-j
Message 12/45 28-Mar-03 @ 07:22 PM - RE: want to program?
that language looks like generic turing machine
borland also used to give away an older version of turbo C++ or the big borland C++.... should still be on their website... i think it was 5.0...
borland also used to give away an older version of turbo C++ or the big borland C++.... should still be on their website... i think it was 5.0...
Message 13/45 28-Mar-03 @ 08:03 PM - RE: want to program?
Steve Roughley
Posts: 1178
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Yeah, Borland do the very good JBuilder and C++Builder environments. Both industry standards and both available free as a 'Personal' versions.
As for Basic/VB and Pascal/Delphi, if I ever hear of those languages again I'll shoot someone!
Regards.
Steve.
As for Basic/VB and Pascal/Delphi, if I ever hear of those languages again I'll shoot someone!
Regards.
Steve.
Message 14/45 28-Mar-03 @ 08:28 PM - RE: want to program?
hey,
i too have a fondness for "toy" languages, such as the new wave of BASIC-based langs (darcbasic/realbasic/etc.).. but at the same time, there's a certain degree of limitation.
it's great that a language lets you get programing quick+easy, but when you have to design your app to get around the limitations of the language.. it's almost more work than just learning c++. (i speak from intensely frustrating personal experience.)
rapid-q looks decent.. (um.. why is it running in the java VM though?!). i suppose it's just a clever BASIC-style wrapper around a few core parts of java?! (i.e a simple cut-down version of java..) um.. it might just be easier to learn "basic" java or even javascript.
recently i had to actually code in BASIC (i.e no function calls, etc. etc.) and it really made me realise how much i love modern languages.
i MUST recommend ActionScript ("scripting" lang of flash.. almost identical to javascript); it's probably _the_ slowest language, but.. it's sooooooo easy to use. i realise it involves having $$$ to buy flash... but, it's an extremely small, friendly-to-use lang. dynamic EVERYTHING. (the tradeoff is, it can check very little beyond syntax errors at "compile"-time)
anyway, let me just correct xoxox: if you want to learn programming, try AS. it's VERY simple; much prettier/nicer/cleaner/etc. than BASIC-style stuff. and you'll learn a bit of OOP too, instead of all that nasty SUB/FUNC "bollocks". (and the built-in graphics and sound APIs are, while basic, very simple to use. AAAND.. who doesn't love anti-aliased gfx?)
having said that, it's nowhere near as poweful, in terms of speed and capabilities (i.e no directX, etc.). BUT: if i had to learn programming in BASIC, i would kill myself. soooo ugly! and.. isn't it statically typed? etc.. kind of "unfriendly". not the kind of stuff "newbies" want to worry about...
anyway xoxox.. "rapid q. best running interactive web media i've ever used.".. um.. what about flash?!
raigan
p.s - also -- java and c++ are free, aren't they?! there are TONS of online books and tutorials.. and good compilers... etc.
p.p.s - AS is also cross-platform... haha!
p.p.p.s - sadly, it's also quasi-proprietary.. (the language spec/etc. are free/open, so technically someone could write a free AS compiler.. and a few people have, but not a fully-functional one like the embeded-in-flash one.. more like for use as a UI scripting tool for playstation games/etc..)
p.p.p.p.s - sorry about this deranged post...
i too have a fondness for "toy" languages, such as the new wave of BASIC-based langs (darcbasic/realbasic/etc.).. but at the same time, there's a certain degree of limitation.
it's great that a language lets you get programing quick+easy, but when you have to design your app to get around the limitations of the language.. it's almost more work than just learning c++. (i speak from intensely frustrating personal experience.)
rapid-q looks decent.. (um.. why is it running in the java VM though?!). i suppose it's just a clever BASIC-style wrapper around a few core parts of java?! (i.e a simple cut-down version of java..) um.. it might just be easier to learn "basic" java or even javascript.
recently i had to actually code in BASIC (i.e no function calls, etc. etc.) and it really made me realise how much i love modern languages.
i MUST recommend ActionScript ("scripting" lang of flash.. almost identical to javascript); it's probably _the_ slowest language, but.. it's sooooooo easy to use. i realise it involves having $$$ to buy flash... but, it's an extremely small, friendly-to-use lang. dynamic EVERYTHING. (the tradeoff is, it can check very little beyond syntax errors at "compile"-time)
anyway, let me just correct xoxox: if you want to learn programming, try AS. it's VERY simple; much prettier/nicer/cleaner/etc. than BASIC-style stuff. and you'll learn a bit of OOP too, instead of all that nasty SUB/FUNC "bollocks". (and the built-in graphics and sound APIs are, while basic, very simple to use. AAAND.. who doesn't love anti-aliased gfx?)
having said that, it's nowhere near as poweful, in terms of speed and capabilities (i.e no directX, etc.). BUT: if i had to learn programming in BASIC, i would kill myself. soooo ugly! and.. isn't it statically typed? etc.. kind of "unfriendly". not the kind of stuff "newbies" want to worry about...
anyway xoxox.. "rapid q. best running interactive web media i've ever used.".. um.. what about flash?!
raigan
p.s - also -- java and c++ are free, aren't they?! there are TONS of online books and tutorials.. and good compilers... etc.
p.p.s - AS is also cross-platform... haha!
p.p.p.s - sadly, it's also quasi-proprietary.. (the language spec/etc. are free/open, so technically someone could write a free AS compiler.. and a few people have, but not a fully-functional one like the embeded-in-flash one.. more like for use as a UI scripting tool for playstation games/etc..)
p.p.p.p.s - sorry about this deranged post...
Message 15/45 28-Mar-03 @ 10:14 PM - RE: want to program?
oh no... actionscript. nooo!! don't! just don't do it! ;) hahah..
how 'bout vb if you don't want to learn c? then you get access to dx and it's reaaallly easy now.
-j
how 'bout vb if you don't want to learn c? then you get access to dx and it's reaaallly easy now.
-j
Message 16/45 28-Mar-03 @ 10:34 PM - RE: want to program?
swan - there's a large amount of .cgi stuff for rapid q.. sort of amusing, the yahoo! groups files section is packed with .bas scripts 'to receive free pictures in your email..' i'm just trying to write a game and i've already learned 1/2 dozen ways to fuck up somebody's computer going thru the docs. it's like a language for evildoers.
that's the thing.. i started with borland's free c++ (fclt) AND bought a book, but it didn't have information on compile codes i was picking up bits of info from various places on the net.. i went thru some gnu sites but generally in reference to fclt, i felt like i didn't have a chance of actually putting anything together because i was finding a reference to one compile code in one place that sounded like i should be using it, but wasn't in my text. i guess it's all there for gnu then.
this was pretty bad as well.. there's several ways to put a bitmap on your form, and i had to go through 4 different databases before i could write a script that did what i wanted that worked despite what i took as a complete documentation. it's diaspora.. i don't like haivng to pester people "i know you write programming languages all day long, do you mind taking a second to tell me how to put a flippinmg box on my screen?" then you have to be all "thank you thank you"
so basically right now i'm kidding myself and saying "when i can buy an official c++ package, there will be sufficient documentation and examples.." even tho i know i'll probably have to write at least 15 pleading emails, go thru 30 sites et c. and pay several thousand dollars for the .dlls that make it work after you buy it, if i know the commercial market..
i figured this bastard out, i've had enough of sniffing chocolate starfishes trying to discern why the hell someone wouldn't just write one plain, simple, effective graphics call.. this works now.. i'll have some tutorials up soon since no one else realises that if you want to know how to put a box on the screen you don't want to pick apart some way-outta-your-way proprietary directx script to do it.
i think c++ is just an excuse to see who can come up with the longest variable/function names. damn, it might be antidisestablishmentarianismcount but you can just call it x, peeps! just a little tip from a basic person.
that's the thing.. i started with borland's free c++ (fclt) AND bought a book, but it didn't have information on compile codes i was picking up bits of info from various places on the net.. i went thru some gnu sites but generally in reference to fclt, i felt like i didn't have a chance of actually putting anything together because i was finding a reference to one compile code in one place that sounded like i should be using it, but wasn't in my text. i guess it's all there for gnu then.
this was pretty bad as well.. there's several ways to put a bitmap on your form, and i had to go through 4 different databases before i could write a script that did what i wanted that worked despite what i took as a complete documentation. it's diaspora.. i don't like haivng to pester people "i know you write programming languages all day long, do you mind taking a second to tell me how to put a flippinmg box on my screen?" then you have to be all "thank you thank you"
so basically right now i'm kidding myself and saying "when i can buy an official c++ package, there will be sufficient documentation and examples.." even tho i know i'll probably have to write at least 15 pleading emails, go thru 30 sites et c. and pay several thousand dollars for the .dlls that make it work after you buy it, if i know the commercial market..
i figured this bastard out, i've had enough of sniffing chocolate starfishes trying to discern why the hell someone wouldn't just write one plain, simple, effective graphics call.. this works now.. i'll have some tutorials up soon since no one else realises that if you want to know how to put a box on the screen you don't want to pick apart some way-outta-your-way proprietary directx script to do it.
i think c++ is just an excuse to see who can come up with the longest variable/function names. damn, it might be antidisestablishmentarianismcount but you can just call it x, peeps! just a little tip from a basic person.
Message 17/45 28-Mar-03 @ 11:54 PM - RE: want to program?
Steve Roughley
Posts: 1178
Link?: No link
File?: No file
While on the subject, I am just on a 15 minute break from learning Server Side Java (J2EE for web apps) and I must say that I am very impressed. This is just what I expected from enterprise application development environments, but was let down with PHP and Allaire. This is such a brilliant and robust set of tools. If any of you get the chance, give it a go. You won't be able to create plugins with it, but it is really neat to learn.
Regards.
Steve.
Regards.
Steve.
Message 18/45 29-Mar-03 @ 05:30 AM - RE: want to program?
any of zou bozs getting busy on xml. I never do but i want to know whz IBM and microshaft left W3C
Message 19/45 29-Mar-03 @ 07:35 AM - RE: want to program?
Zazza
Posts: 1502
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File?: No file
left W3C?
Message 20/45 29-Mar-03 @ 07:43 AM - RE: want to program?
Zazza
Posts: 1502
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File?: No file
x, if u want to do cross platform gui programming check put QT from www.trolltech.com
Free version: http://www.trolltech.com/download/qt/noncomm.html
Gives you gui designer etc.. then you just fill in the specific code in c++..
Id suggest gnu c++, free etc.. run cygwin on windows http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe
And there's no shortage of help/examples on the web..
Free version: http://www.trolltech.com/download/qt/noncomm.html
Gives you gui designer etc.. then you just fill in the specific code in c++..
Id suggest gnu c++, free etc.. run cygwin on windows http://www.cygwin.com/setup.exe
And there's no shortage of help/examples on the web..
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