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Forums - The lounge
Subject: explain this
Original Message Date: 02-Sep-05 @ 08:25 AM - explain this
It's not like one of those thrid world countries is it
I only mention it cos the p[rice of oil is going through the roof and once systems break down the sad truth - if you havn't got a gun you are going to loose. Would the liberals please realise they are a product of peace
Meanwhile - the argument over evolution/abortion RAGES
I only mention it cos the p[rice of oil is going through the roof and once systems break down the sad truth - if you havn't got a gun you are going to loose. Would the liberals please realise they are a product of peace
Meanwhile - the argument over evolution/abortion RAGES
Message 11/36 04-Sep-05 @ 05:04 PM Edit: 04-Sep-05 | 05:14 PM - RE: explain this
Zazza
Posts: 1502
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Originally the city was built on the high ground.. urban sprawl soon led to devlopments on the marshy areas, protected by levees...
The Bush admistration cut the budget for reinforcing the levees to 0 last year.
Everyone knew this was going to happen, but they didn't seem to give a shit.
The lack of food and water getting thorugh was a delibearte decision by the federal authoriries.
They wanted everyone to leave and were afraid that if they allowed food and water in then people wuld say, 'ok, no problem I'll stay on my house then'
This whole debacle has shown the racist underbelly fo the US elite to the world, it is horrendous and hopefully will eb thend of Bush and his right wing racist, imperialist band of neocons.
From the Times Online: Link
The Bush admistration cut the budget for reinforcing the levees to 0 last year.
Everyone knew this was going to happen, but they didn't seem to give a shit.
The lack of food and water getting thorugh was a delibearte decision by the federal authoriries.
They wanted everyone to leave and were afraid that if they allowed food and water in then people wuld say, 'ok, no problem I'll stay on my house then'
This whole debacle has shown the racist underbelly fo the US elite to the world, it is horrendous and hopefully will eb thend of Bush and his right wing racist, imperialist band of neocons.
From the Times Online: Link
quote
Yet one preventable blunder followed another throughout the week as the city struggled to cope with the disaster. Aid officials claimed the residents of New Orleans had been left to fend for themselves without food, water and medical supplies as part of a deliberate policy to force them to leave.
They don't people thinking they can get comfortable and be fed and watered indefinitely, a senior aid co- ordinator said. It's going to take months to clean up this place and they can do it easier if nobody is here.
About 15,000 people were still waiting to be rescued yesterday from the squalor of the citys convention centre. Repeated pledges of early evacuation had yet to yield a single bus.
Yet one preventable blunder followed another throughout the week as the city struggled to cope with the disaster. Aid officials claimed the residents of New Orleans had been left to fend for themselves without food, water and medical supplies as part of a deliberate policy to force them to leave.
They don't people thinking they can get comfortable and be fed and watered indefinitely, a senior aid co- ordinator said. It's going to take months to clean up this place and they can do it easier if nobody is here.
About 15,000 people were still waiting to be rescued yesterday from the squalor of the citys convention centre. Repeated pledges of early evacuation had yet to yield a single bus.
Message 12/36 04-Sep-05 @ 06:34 PM - RE: explain this
darin
Posts: 53
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Okay I'll explain...
Not too many places would fair well given this type of disaster.
All of the roads and bridges into and out of New Orleans were wiped out, leading to MILES of backups as people with chainsaws had to cut their way into the city.
The levees broke. This was a money problem - the army corp of engineers knew it needed to be fixed, asked for a big sum of money to do it, and Congress gave them half. Then, in their infinite wisdom, Congress allowed a pork-barrell transportation bill to go through...
Too many people did not heed the warnings - they heard they should leave, but chose not to because they had rode out other storms (Hurricane Camille in '69, I believe, is but one example.)
Too many people did not have the money to leave.
The Federal government acted too slow to get aid and relief in once the storm hit.
People stole guns and shot at the rescuers, forcing many of the cops to stop evacuating people and try to restore order.
Too many of our national guards men and women are in Iraq.
Bush's approval rating is down to 35% as a result of these things.
Not too many places would fair well given this type of disaster.
All of the roads and bridges into and out of New Orleans were wiped out, leading to MILES of backups as people with chainsaws had to cut their way into the city.
The levees broke. This was a money problem - the army corp of engineers knew it needed to be fixed, asked for a big sum of money to do it, and Congress gave them half. Then, in their infinite wisdom, Congress allowed a pork-barrell transportation bill to go through...
Too many people did not heed the warnings - they heard they should leave, but chose not to because they had rode out other storms (Hurricane Camille in '69, I believe, is but one example.)
Too many people did not have the money to leave.
The Federal government acted too slow to get aid and relief in once the storm hit.
People stole guns and shot at the rescuers, forcing many of the cops to stop evacuating people and try to restore order.
Too many of our national guards men and women are in Iraq.
Bush's approval rating is down to 35% as a result of these things.
Message 13/36 04-Sep-05 @ 11:30 PM Edit: 04-Sep-05 | 11:31 PM - RE: explain this
one thing I just didnt get when i read/heard on news- why on earth would people shoot at the help helicopters? whats that about?
i watched a news special thing on bbc earlier today - the aid people seemed to just toss out big bundles of food and water onto the ground about a couple hundred feet from the crowds - i know prob due to fear of being overcome by people stampeding and fighting at them to get the stuff but alls that happedned was fit 20-30 year old young men running there first and grabbing packs , leaving the old, disabled and mothers/kids standing there unable to get anything - was true survival of the fittest stuff in its most realest cold form - hopefully some of those guys had conciences and did the decent thing
i watched a news special thing on bbc earlier today - the aid people seemed to just toss out big bundles of food and water onto the ground about a couple hundred feet from the crowds - i know prob due to fear of being overcome by people stampeding and fighting at them to get the stuff but alls that happedned was fit 20-30 year old young men running there first and grabbing packs , leaving the old, disabled and mothers/kids standing there unable to get anything - was true survival of the fittest stuff in its most realest cold form - hopefully some of those guys had conciences and did the decent thing
Message 14/36 05-Sep-05 @ 05:37 AM - RE: explain this
desperate situations don't always bring out the best in humans
Message 15/36 05-Sep-05 @ 04:25 PM - RE: explain this
http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1125653648
ahem
greg
ahem
greg
Message 17/36 05-Sep-05 @ 10:00 PM - RE: explain this
omfg. thats the real killer. well, amongst all the other real killers. is there ANYTHING that didnt go wrong down there?
i mean, a whole region of austria was cut off completely from the rest few weeks ago, due to heavy rains and severe flooding. i didnt see any looting going on there. and has there EVER been a response so slow? how many days did it take for american ships to arrive after the tsunami last year eh? they managed to bomb bin laden quicker than they managed to bring help into st. orleans
and the rest of the world is having a proper laugh in the meantime. Cuba (the hateful comunists, that stronghold of evil in the world), Iran (those muslim-extremist-mujahedeen who call usa The Great Satan), india, china, sri lanka for f's sake are all sending donations and help to the region, quicker than the goverment. ooer!
(i'm only pissed off at serbian goverment for not offering to send some observers down there, or at least toothpicks. you cant make a decent martini without one. not like i dont feel emphatic for poor people mind you!)
really people, where's the outrage? i was expecting a much more lenghty and entertaining thread after a week of being away! where's your spirit?
i mean, a whole region of austria was cut off completely from the rest few weeks ago, due to heavy rains and severe flooding. i didnt see any looting going on there. and has there EVER been a response so slow? how many days did it take for american ships to arrive after the tsunami last year eh? they managed to bomb bin laden quicker than they managed to bring help into st. orleans
and the rest of the world is having a proper laugh in the meantime. Cuba (the hateful comunists, that stronghold of evil in the world), Iran (those muslim-extremist-mujahedeen who call usa The Great Satan), india, china, sri lanka for f's sake are all sending donations and help to the region, quicker than the goverment. ooer!
(i'm only pissed off at serbian goverment for not offering to send some observers down there, or at least toothpicks. you cant make a decent martini without one. not like i dont feel emphatic for poor people mind you!)
really people, where's the outrage? i was expecting a much more lenghty and entertaining thread after a week of being away! where's your spirit?
Message 18/36 06-Sep-05 @ 05:35 PM - RE: explain this
darin
Posts: 53
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Milan,
There is a lot of outrage, but right now they are focused on getting the remaining people out. The news shows are covering it, people are talking about it, but the focus is on relocating those people. There are 2500 coming up to my neck of the woods (Massachusetts, and we're a thousand miles away). Alot of people are being sent to Houston, Texas.
"and the rest of the world is having a proper laugh in the meantime. "
This is the type of shit that you'll NEVER hear an American say. Natural disasters have NEVER been a laughing matter for us - regardless of who it hits. When the tsunamis hit in Indonesia, the American people sent millions of dollars - well ahead of our government money. People dropped what they were doing to go and help out. I'm not suggesting that we're the most generous nation (Zazza I am sure would love to post statistics proving this) but the point I'm making is that we never "laugh" at anyones misfortune, be it self made or otherwise.
Look - the fact of the matter is that alot of people CHOSE not to leave, as I stated above. And there are lots of people saying that the looting was overblown. Sure, there were some incidents of looting, and there were gunfights between the police and some other people (I didn't hear the end of that story), and I'm sure that's what made it to the papers over there because currently (and not undeserved), the rest of the world hates us Americans. And that's fine, but to sit over there and chuckle while thousands of ordinary Americans are drowning is pretty low. It would be one thing if this hit Washington and only the fucking ass-face policy makers were affected, but as you can see from any coverage, this disaster hit a city with rich and poor alike. This wasn't a couple of buildings in a large city, or even a big city - it was AN ENTIRE REGION. Most of the rural Mississippi coast is still under water.
So sit back and laugh folks. Just remember that if something like this happens to any of you, the American people will be first in line to try to help out any way they can. The government may be slow to act, but the people will be there right beside you regardless of the color of your skin or home country.
Now, I'm sure some of you are thinking - Where were you in Rwanda, and now Darfur? How about Uzbekistan? Well, ordinary citizens aren't there for the same reason that YOUR countrymen aren't there.
There is a lot of outrage, but right now they are focused on getting the remaining people out. The news shows are covering it, people are talking about it, but the focus is on relocating those people. There are 2500 coming up to my neck of the woods (Massachusetts, and we're a thousand miles away). Alot of people are being sent to Houston, Texas.
"and the rest of the world is having a proper laugh in the meantime. "
This is the type of shit that you'll NEVER hear an American say. Natural disasters have NEVER been a laughing matter for us - regardless of who it hits. When the tsunamis hit in Indonesia, the American people sent millions of dollars - well ahead of our government money. People dropped what they were doing to go and help out. I'm not suggesting that we're the most generous nation (Zazza I am sure would love to post statistics proving this) but the point I'm making is that we never "laugh" at anyones misfortune, be it self made or otherwise.
Look - the fact of the matter is that alot of people CHOSE not to leave, as I stated above. And there are lots of people saying that the looting was overblown. Sure, there were some incidents of looting, and there were gunfights between the police and some other people (I didn't hear the end of that story), and I'm sure that's what made it to the papers over there because currently (and not undeserved), the rest of the world hates us Americans. And that's fine, but to sit over there and chuckle while thousands of ordinary Americans are drowning is pretty low. It would be one thing if this hit Washington and only the fucking ass-face policy makers were affected, but as you can see from any coverage, this disaster hit a city with rich and poor alike. This wasn't a couple of buildings in a large city, or even a big city - it was AN ENTIRE REGION. Most of the rural Mississippi coast is still under water.
So sit back and laugh folks. Just remember that if something like this happens to any of you, the American people will be first in line to try to help out any way they can. The government may be slow to act, but the people will be there right beside you regardless of the color of your skin or home country.
Now, I'm sure some of you are thinking - Where were you in Rwanda, and now Darfur? How about Uzbekistan? Well, ordinary citizens aren't there for the same reason that YOUR countrymen aren't there.
Message 19/36 06-Sep-05 @ 07:08 PM - RE: explain this
dude... thats exactly what i'm saying! you guys got EVERYWHERE faster than to new orleans!!!
Message 20/36 06-Sep-05 @ 07:20 PM - RE: explain this
darin
Posts: 53
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That's true but you have to recognize that there were/are problems. Every single road and bridge into and around New Orleans was wiped out. Every single road leading to the suburbs of New Orleans and Mobile and Biloxi were covered with trees from the tornadoes. Most of the coastline was completely flooded. I'm not making excuses and I'm sick knowing how long it took for FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Association - they are supposed to be the arm of the fed that reacts to this type of stuff) to get going. Every single politician and talking head in the government is calling for the beheading of that agency because of their ineptitude. However, there are some problems that need to be overcome first. Heads will roll, believe you me. Hell - I'm not one to say I told you so, but years ago when the whole Enron thing happened, you all were crying about how these people wouldn't get punished. I said there would be jailtime, and you all laughed. Well, do a search on Enron, KPMG, Tyco, Ameritech... (I also predicted Bush would lose, I'll never live that down...) These FEMA 'tards are done for.
I don't know what info has made it to your side of the pond, but the problem in New Orleans wasn't just the hurricane. After the hurricane left (there are films of people in the streets), there was minor flooding, but a few hours after the storm left, the levees broke. NO is 6 feet below sea level. So, the levees from the sea broke, and then the levees from the lake (there is a levee holding a lake back) broke, filling New Orleans with water AFTER the storm started to quiet. As the storm passed through Mississippi, it sparked some tornadoes that destroyed many towns there - some 40 miles inland.
This wasn't just high winds and rain.
So, they have rebuild the levees and pump out the city. That could take a while. Should the levees have broken? No. Have humans ever won a battle with mother nature? No. You could build levees a million feet high and sooner or later some even would happen that would knock them down.
I don't know what info has made it to your side of the pond, but the problem in New Orleans wasn't just the hurricane. After the hurricane left (there are films of people in the streets), there was minor flooding, but a few hours after the storm left, the levees broke. NO is 6 feet below sea level. So, the levees from the sea broke, and then the levees from the lake (there is a levee holding a lake back) broke, filling New Orleans with water AFTER the storm started to quiet. As the storm passed through Mississippi, it sparked some tornadoes that destroyed many towns there - some 40 miles inland.
This wasn't just high winds and rain.
So, they have rebuild the levees and pump out the city. That could take a while. Should the levees have broken? No. Have humans ever won a battle with mother nature? No. You could build levees a million feet high and sooner or later some even would happen that would knock them down.
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