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Forums - Music techology
Subject: Those UAD-1 cards
Original Message Date: 02-May-07 @ 03:08 PM - Those UAD-1 cards
Well, since i'm getting adsl soon, a pci slot will become available and i was thinking of getting one of those UAD-1 project card. Is it any good ? I use mainly what comes bundled with my VST-5 in terms of reverb and dynamics. will the UAD-1 fare that much better ? I assume that it will free some of my cpu ressources, but will it do so in a significant manner or will this be marginal ? Also, i'm interested in the card because of the Nigel, wich i could use for my guitar endeavors, will this fare good against say, Amplitube 1.1.1?
thanks for any pointers
thanks for any pointers
Message 11/24 03-May-07 @ 07:43 PM - RE: Those UAD-1 cards
P4 2,4Ghz ??
Shit, that is 600 Mhz more than my Athlon 64... not to say that I can't run out of cpu cycles
... (on the ninja tune there were 10 audio tracks, an albino, a z3ta+, an FM7, some 4-5 filter plugins, voxengo EQs in "high" mode, some reverb, 4-5 effects, drumsynths... that is 45% max...)
So what else do you use besides the stock VST5 stuff? Coz you should be able to run tons of that stuff on a 2.4 Mhz P4 unless I have overlooked something ...
Shit, that is 600 Mhz more than my Athlon 64... not to say that I can't run out of cpu cycles
... (on the ninja tune there were 10 audio tracks, an albino, a z3ta+, an FM7, some 4-5 filter plugins, voxengo EQs in "high" mode, some reverb, 4-5 effects, drumsynths... that is 45% max...)So what else do you use besides the stock VST5 stuff? Coz you should be able to run tons of that stuff on a 2.4 Mhz P4 unless I have overlooked something ...
Message 12/24 03-May-07 @ 09:04 PM - RE: Those UAD-1 cards
Not much really. I usually record evrything to a stereo pair, wich is fine. But whenever i try to do some more elaborate stuff(many tracks with effects and dynamics , eq), the cpu meter ventures in the red. Maybe I have overlooked something, i guess i'll have to recheck all my settings
Message 13/24 04-May-07 @ 12:46 AM - RE: Those UAD-1 cards
yeah fuck if i added a list i can run i logic on our old amd2000xp yoiud shit yourself.. In logic on pc it totaly responds to the 'background services' switch so you can then run it in the meter redline without error messages.. dunno if other sequencers respond to that
anyways summts up mebbe with it? - if you push the cpu meter to red, does anything crap out pc wise? does your pc crap out before it reaches red?, or does it crap out when it reaches red but gets there too easily? er... yes
as for the ssl plugs, talking about uad etc, hardware-wise you could get duende, i spose you could arge that alot of hip hop is 'ssl concious', it's also a number one mix console of hit records, big in metal ... anyways it's popular.. then add to it oddities and some character plugs if required just as you migth have a 4000 and some additional UA comps & neve, helios or whatever channel eq's, but as add-on character pieces rather than the meat and potatoes of the main mix.. stuff for extra taste and character basicaly and the thing those classic units happen to do well...
i tell you tho, for natives i love these s/w ones!
and i dont like waves plugins and never use em except ren comp sometimes, somehow i like the sound of these i guess is all one can say there's something gritty but yet smooth in the harder midrange area i like..
it's subjective anyways, but i spose if duende can deliver 32 channels of ssl you'd be bonkers in a commercial scenario setup not to get it or s/w versions simply for biz - for creativity there's a zillion great free & cheap native comp and eq plugs and then there's your dsp cards - but they cant do a mix in full i think is the issue, in fact i saw on some forum (was it sos?) a guy complaining he'd bought a uad and could only run 2 compressors or something, but he was running it at 192 it turned out, heh, but even still you arent gonna get 32 api, helios or whatever they do wizzo models at once or whatever
anyone heard any opinions on liquidmix expressed anywhere btw?
btw 2 anyone here used sony digital before? .. i was messing with a DMXR100 the oxford cutdown last week, it's loverly but i think it was wired up weird cos could we route it to the multitrack?.. kurwa!! dunno what it was; the 3 tdif out cards were assigned 1-24 to the 3 MTR busses and we had channels routed to those, but only one blasted channel would route which was bizzare, we thought it was mebbe routed into protools and booted that but again could only get channel 2 to take a signal .. however you could send L/R to all 8 busses no probs if you flipped that in l/r to mtr.. it was weird... 4 blooody hours we checked stuff.. gave up, no technicians available to say how it was wired. one would assume tho with 3 tascam 8 tracks sync'd and 3 x tdif cards on the mixer the default would be to route the MTR bus's to the multitracks.. the sony MTR slots were all set to tdif 1-24 as i said, it was mental
*sigh* mice desk tho, touchscreen and you can wire it to a pc for vga output, very nice, one central channel hardware controller and master hardware controller area with pots and buttonsand you simply select channel by a big green button to work on that channel, matrix routing screens etc, nice.... AKG 414's sounded superb thru it, it, nice amps, it was BW monitoring and the bottom end & detail on a percussion (djembe) was gorgeous.
anyways summts up mebbe with it? - if you push the cpu meter to red, does anything crap out pc wise? does your pc crap out before it reaches red?, or does it crap out when it reaches red but gets there too easily? er... yes
as for the ssl plugs, talking about uad etc, hardware-wise you could get duende, i spose you could arge that alot of hip hop is 'ssl concious', it's also a number one mix console of hit records, big in metal ... anyways it's popular.. then add to it oddities and some character plugs if required just as you migth have a 4000 and some additional UA comps & neve, helios or whatever channel eq's, but as add-on character pieces rather than the meat and potatoes of the main mix.. stuff for extra taste and character basicaly and the thing those classic units happen to do well...
i tell you tho, for natives i love these s/w ones!
and i dont like waves plugins and never use em except ren comp sometimes, somehow i like the sound of these i guess is all one can say there's something gritty but yet smooth in the harder midrange area i like.. it's subjective anyways, but i spose if duende can deliver 32 channels of ssl you'd be bonkers in a commercial scenario setup not to get it or s/w versions simply for biz - for creativity there's a zillion great free & cheap native comp and eq plugs and then there's your dsp cards - but they cant do a mix in full i think is the issue, in fact i saw on some forum (was it sos?) a guy complaining he'd bought a uad and could only run 2 compressors or something, but he was running it at 192 it turned out, heh, but even still you arent gonna get 32 api, helios or whatever they do wizzo models at once or whatever
anyone heard any opinions on liquidmix expressed anywhere btw?
btw 2 anyone here used sony digital before? .. i was messing with a DMXR100 the oxford cutdown last week, it's loverly but i think it was wired up weird cos could we route it to the multitrack?.. kurwa!! dunno what it was; the 3 tdif out cards were assigned 1-24 to the 3 MTR busses and we had channels routed to those, but only one blasted channel would route which was bizzare, we thought it was mebbe routed into protools and booted that but again could only get channel 2 to take a signal .. however you could send L/R to all 8 busses no probs if you flipped that in l/r to mtr.. it was weird... 4 blooody hours we checked stuff.. gave up, no technicians available to say how it was wired. one would assume tho with 3 tascam 8 tracks sync'd and 3 x tdif cards on the mixer the default would be to route the MTR bus's to the multitracks.. the sony MTR slots were all set to tdif 1-24 as i said, it was mental
*sigh* mice desk tho, touchscreen and you can wire it to a pc for vga output, very nice, one central channel hardware controller and master hardware controller area with pots and buttonsand you simply select channel by a big green button to work on that channel, matrix routing screens etc, nice.... AKG 414's sounded superb thru it, it, nice amps, it was BW monitoring and the bottom end & detail on a percussion (djembe) was gorgeous.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 14/24 04-May-07 @ 07:33 AM - RE: Those UAD-1 cards
quote
anyone heard any opinions on liquidmix expressed anywhere btw?
anyone heard any opinions on liquidmix expressed anywhere btw?
Now that's interesting, because I have heard people raving about it, but most of those were folks who did not have the unit... but of course that could be because of the lack of PC drivers...
I would be really interested how close it gets to the original EQ's... and what's the latency like with the PC driver. Impulse Response technology in itself has its limitations too...
BTW, as far as I know the duende runs more or less the same DSP code as SSL's digital desks... while the waves stuff were modelled after the analog console.
Message 15/24 04-May-07 @ 11:50 AM - RE: Those UAD-1 cards
[image file]
Here's some test with the Waves SSL plugin...
Source material were sine waves at 14946, 15862, 17761, 19927 and 21188 Hz.
You can see aliasing at around 13220 and 20587 Hz (it is very slight, around -80...-90 dB ).
When you turn on the "ANALOG" switch it starts adding noise (over 10 kHz), and also you can overdrive the EQ, so it will generate additional harmonics like an analog amplifier.
Message 16/24 04-May-07 @ 12:07 PM - RE: Those UAD-1 cards
with the beta v2 liquidmix driver I'm getting about 520 samples latency, and like with duende, the most irritating thing is you cant turn the emulations all off at once for tracking, you gotta go and do it one by one a main all-bypass would be a godsend
and that of course is the other issue, there's latency on record so you cant really use it in a return path as you record like you would real SSL hardware or any of the other emualtions liquidmix does or other h/w solutions and ok, you can use this stuff to mix, but it'd kinda nice to use for 'monitor returns' in a s/w sense too if you wanted
for me the orher is reliability, i never boot a song file using s/w plugins and think "Will it boot ok, will it initialise ok, will it crash the host etc" but i've had plenty of crashes from liquidmix, it's that pc-hardware thing again. I updated the pc, re-installed the older firewire sp1 drivers etc to hotfix it back to faster firewire speed, have the latest beta liquidmix s/w.. but it is 'touchy' and the overall comms between s/w and unit isnt so good, sloppy driver writing etc like at the end of the install it tell you to disconnect liquidmix in a text display popup, but as soon as you do that and press NEXT it says:
"Finished installation, error, no liquidmix hardware found"
lol, i mean that just shows sloppy attention to detail in the driver installation authoring to my mind cos there's other anomalies like that. sometimes liquidmix is booted with a host song for the first time and displays a failed to initialise properly notice... ok this was on 2 amd machines, one an old 2000xp and one a new sempron, but i dont think thats any excuse cos they can run plugins no problems in s/w form, but it's that old hardware-problems thing which makes hardware solutions sometimes risky
and finaly there's the whole hassle of having to group NON-liquidmix inserted stuff and delay those groups with sample delay etc - it's a hassle... sounds nice when it works tho, but all that hassle and too much latency to track thu
to my mind the future is native cos gobs more cpu power will come and already it's way plenty, but dsp can do more & faster... how to solve this eh, lol
btw, i quite liked those Sonitus plugs in cakewalk 6 producer, nice
yes duende is their dig desk not a model
after my expreince with the sony dmxR100 i think that with 3 adat cards would be nice and it might not be so expensive, i saw one s/h with 3 fitted adat cards for $8k USD
that desk also has a s/w update which makes it a mackie controller i think so you get 48 channels of controller too i spose, and great eq and amps + 5:1 built in and all the sync you need
they are pretty nice boards, i think they are 17,000 new
interestingly i've heard absolutely jack about the big mackie mixer (that one with touchscreens and i/o card-fit options).. did it flop?
and that of course is the other issue, there's latency on record so you cant really use it in a return path as you record like you would real SSL hardware or any of the other emualtions liquidmix does or other h/w solutions and ok, you can use this stuff to mix, but it'd kinda nice to use for 'monitor returns' in a s/w sense too if you wanted
for me the orher is reliability, i never boot a song file using s/w plugins and think "Will it boot ok, will it initialise ok, will it crash the host etc" but i've had plenty of crashes from liquidmix, it's that pc-hardware thing again. I updated the pc, re-installed the older firewire sp1 drivers etc to hotfix it back to faster firewire speed, have the latest beta liquidmix s/w.. but it is 'touchy' and the overall comms between s/w and unit isnt so good, sloppy driver writing etc like at the end of the install it tell you to disconnect liquidmix in a text display popup, but as soon as you do that and press NEXT it says:
"Finished installation, error, no liquidmix hardware found"
lol, i mean that just shows sloppy attention to detail in the driver installation authoring to my mind cos there's other anomalies like that. sometimes liquidmix is booted with a host song for the first time and displays a failed to initialise properly notice... ok this was on 2 amd machines, one an old 2000xp and one a new sempron, but i dont think thats any excuse cos they can run plugins no problems in s/w form, but it's that old hardware-problems thing which makes hardware solutions sometimes risky
and finaly there's the whole hassle of having to group NON-liquidmix inserted stuff and delay those groups with sample delay etc - it's a hassle... sounds nice when it works tho, but all that hassle and too much latency to track thu
to my mind the future is native cos gobs more cpu power will come and already it's way plenty, but dsp can do more & faster... how to solve this eh, lol
btw, i quite liked those Sonitus plugs in cakewalk 6 producer, nice
yes duende is their dig desk not a model
after my expreince with the sony dmxR100 i think that with 3 adat cards would be nice and it might not be so expensive, i saw one s/h with 3 fitted adat cards for $8k USD
that desk also has a s/w update which makes it a mackie controller i think so you get 48 channels of controller too i spose, and great eq and amps + 5:1 built in and all the sync you need
they are pretty nice boards, i think they are 17,000 new
interestingly i've heard absolutely jack about the big mackie mixer (that one with touchscreens and i/o card-fit options).. did it flop?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 17/24 04-May-07 @ 01:02 PM - RE: Those UAD-1 cards
"to my mind the future is native cos gobs more cpu power will come and already it's way plenty, but dsp can do more & faster... how to solve this eh, lol"
With new hosts supporting 2, 4 etc.. cores it is no question. Yep, DSP can process more with less calculations, but development costs for the all-around processor will always be cheaper than for the specialised DPSs. At the end I think you will get more computing power for less money if you go native, and the reliability is much better, because you have one interface (host vs. plug) compared to the DPS solution (host vs. plug + plug vs. hardware, not to mention that the later must go through some kind of driver... a driver that might not be available for certain kind of OS versions, etc...)
Damn, even my external keyboard uses a modified USB driver that must be installed over the original XP one... from that point on I wouldn't dare to call this an "USB keyboard" as its driver probably doesn't comply with the standards, it just uses the same HW.
With new hosts supporting 2, 4 etc.. cores it is no question. Yep, DSP can process more with less calculations, but development costs for the all-around processor will always be cheaper than for the specialised DPSs. At the end I think you will get more computing power for less money if you go native, and the reliability is much better, because you have one interface (host vs. plug) compared to the DPS solution (host vs. plug + plug vs. hardware, not to mention that the later must go through some kind of driver... a driver that might not be available for certain kind of OS versions, etc...)
Damn, even my external keyboard uses a modified USB driver that must be installed over the original XP one... from that point on I wouldn't dare to call this an "USB keyboard" as its driver probably doesn't comply with the standards, it just uses the same HW.
Message 18/24 04-May-07 @ 05:56 PM - RE: Those UAD-1 cards
nice maps rags - we must have posted at same time - what does it look like if you pass a square wave thru it? and the meter level on your picture of the channel strip shows it's way over dbfs redline btw!!
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 19/24 04-May-07 @ 08:03 PM - RE: Those UAD-1 cards
[image file]
Hmmm, the square looks like this (onlythe upper frequency range is shown, as before)...
Also, I have boosted some highs, but not as much as before.
Thing is, the FFT shown nothing special until the EQ is cranked up, so that the meter is all red...
then the noise appears, and some additional lines, that look like added harmonics...
Now the important thing to note that the plug does not clip when the meter goes into the red (that would look awful on the spectragram) it just introduces some noise.
Message 20/24 04-May-07 @ 08:45 PM - RE: Those UAD-1 cards
oh it's just thaty waves specifies that they have set 0bdfs at -18db on the meter, so surely youre red-lining it into clipping arent you?
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
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