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Subject: Faith
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Original Message Date: 24-Sep-02 @ 05:37 AM - Faith
I'm really curious about the kinds of things we put our faith into. There's a lot of talk about various religions and the differences between them lately, but a lot of the talk sounds like a book report. What I mean is, it sounds like well-collected information culled from various readings (most of them from reputable sources, no doubt) used to form an opinion about a subject. The problem is that we can't read everything. And even if we could, reading without bias does not occur. You have an opinion before you start that affects everything that passes through you, and you only take what you feel is important. It just seems like a snowball effect that leaves you old, bitter towards the world, and highly opinionated (often complaining about how others are stubborn in their reasoning... etc....)
I think live, interactive debate cannot be surpassed as a learning experience. To really take in someone else's view on life and the things that are important to them is one of the greatest gifts we have (it's reflected in our music, and subsequent appreciation of each other's creations). The same biases can take place as in reading, but I think the dynamic nature of a conversation eliminates unchecked bias without reason.
Ok, now to my point. I was raised Christian. My mother is very active in the church, and follows very conservative Christian values. I used to be very active in the church with youth groups, mission work, and stuff like that. After the self-exploration that is college, I strayed away (does this sound familiar to anyone?) My mother and I lately have been getting into spiritual conversations, and she is ever more vocal about her disappointment in the direction my beliefs are heading.
I want to know what it is about Christianity that makes it so prevalent in today's society? I mean, millions of people don't choose this lifestyle just because their parents did. I know that Christianity goes deep, I've just never felt it. And I don't want slagging answers from non-Christians... "it's a crutch, a lie, a shame, etc." I've heard all that and I don't learn a thing from it. I want a personal account of why someone puts their faith in Christian ideals.
And so help me if someone accuses someone else of trying to "force" their opinion on others, I'm gonna shit all over you because that stuff just kills the kind of debate that I'm looking for here. And I don't want philosophical ramblings that you've heard and can relate to and they sound cool, but they aren't you. I want only deep ideas that have really been thought out.
This kind of stuff is important to me, so please take this thread seriously. If the lounge is not the place for this kind of discussion, let me know and I'll take it elsewhere....?
Thanks for really thinking about it, guys. This could be really cool...
Dave
p.s. - Yes, Jamie, I know you're the resident Christian here, and I'm kinda hoping you'll help me start things here, if you want...
Message 111/188 28-Sep-02 @ 06:32 PM - RE: Faith
Message 112/188 28-Sep-02 @ 08:47 PM - RE: Faith
I'll say that reading ALL OF THAT up there, I found only xoxos to be lucid in his statements. (Wierd in of itself)... I think he's right. The interesting thing about the internet is everyone gets a turn on the soapbox. And that's what this thread has turned in to. The kids jump up there, shout something and then get down. Here comes another. And the shouter goes unheard because everyone's waiting to get up there and thinking about what they have to say, and not what's being said. Which is really OK because 9 of 10 are saying nothing.
That's the problem with spiritual discussions. They tend to happen between people that see things differently. And usualy between those who have zero interest in seeing things another way. So they tend to turn into messy vomitous ego games. I must now validate my impressions in the face of contradiction. This forces us to become attached to our notions, our CONCEPTS. And forget what led us here in the first place. It is the conceptualization of our experience, this dichotomy of this and that (belief and un-belief) that have led us to this ignorant mess in the first place.
Just be, motherf*cker. Stop making SO MUCH out of it!
e
Message 113/188 28-Sep-02 @ 10:38 PM - RE: Faith
I'm sorry I just don't see this. I think we've been very civil here (more so than in other threads)
I've gotten a lot of valuable opinions. And while one person's turn on the proverbial soapbox may not get me to abandon the belief system I've built all my life, there's almost almost something in the debate I hadn't considered, and take it to be a part of me.
No, I'm not "living" while I'm talking about living. I GET it. Whether it's the right way to go about figuring out reality or not, it's fucking FUN for me so don't be such a buzzkill! If you get defensive reading other people's opinions, then don't read em. Just skip to the bottom and put in your bit. I'll read it along with the others.
Damn, is discussion really that tedious for you guys?
psylichon
Message 114/188 28-Sep-02 @ 10:38 PM Edit: 28-Sep-02 | 11:35 PM - RE: Faith
Regards.
Steve.
Message 116/188 28-Sep-02 @ 11:28 PM - RE: Faith
Check 'The Holographic Paradigm' which came about as result of discussions between David Bohm and Karl Pribram amongst others.. excellent mind blowing stuff...
errata: peace man.. have some smileys
Message 117/188 28-Sep-02 @ 11:34 PM - RE: Faith
honestly, i've had quite enough. i give up. evil empire wins. between old age taking it's toll on my family, the constant onslaught of idiots at work, and trying to talk reason into the netizens for four years, oh and my fucking neighbor staying up in his driveway slinging coke for two months (driveway=next to my bed=no sleep longer than 3 hours) i think it's time to give my nerves a rest. xoxos is on vacation. i'm signing in as mr. salty for the next 6 months.
Message 118/188 28-Sep-02 @ 11:35 PM - RE: Faith
Message 119/188 28-Sep-02 @ 11:52 PM - RE: Faith
I can smile and nod with the best of em. :}
People don't always understand me, either. c'est la vie.
psylichon
Message 120/188 28-Sep-02 @ 11:55 PM - RE: Faith
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