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Forums - The lounge
Subject: guns
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Original Message Date: 17-Oct-02 @ 04:59 AM - guns
Just saw a trailer for Michael Moore's new movie "Bowling for Columbine." It's all about guns in America and it got me thinking. Why are guns such a problem in America? How 'sacred' is the second amendment?
Personally, I don't think guns serve any purpose but to kill. You can target shoot without lethal potential and you can kill animals without firepower. I don't like the government telling us what we can and cannot own, but I really don't see the need for guns in any society.
I'm curious what you guys think. Do we need guns? Would it make a noticeable social impact to outlaw guns? I think it may... more than waiting for the average American psyche to evolve.
Quoting Linda Richomond, "Twalk amongst yahselves"
I love the smell of stirred shit.
psylichon
Personally, I don't think guns serve any purpose but to kill. You can target shoot without lethal potential and you can kill animals without firepower. I don't like the government telling us what we can and cannot own, but I really don't see the need for guns in any society.
I'm curious what you guys think. Do we need guns? Would it make a noticeable social impact to outlaw guns? I think it may... more than waiting for the average American psyche to evolve.
Quoting Linda Richomond, "Twalk amongst yahselves"
I love the smell of stirred shit.
psylichon
Message 111/147 22-Oct-02 @ 04:54 AM - RE: guns
Luciferenda
Posts: 15
Link?: No link
File?: No file
No I don't post there. I can barely keep up with the ones I do post on.
Meetup sounds kewl.
Meetup sounds kewl.
Message 113/147 22-Oct-02 @ 06:04 AM - RE: guns
Marianimal - Well said and very true. I respect the ancient serpent and realize that life cannot exist without death. But killing for food and killing for greed/anger/stupidity are very different animals.
We all say we hope the best for humanity, while clutching to our fear of others, fear of our own mortality, fear of the unknown, fear of the government, fear of not "making it", etc. etc. etc. What kind of example is that? Do you want everyone to live in those fears constantly? Can we really go anywhere holding on to that kind of baggage?
It's an overused statement and undeniably corny, but changing the world starts with you. And "you" start with your priorities. If your priority is personal survival, then own your damn guns. If your priority is setting an example, even if only for a few people, and contributing constructively to society, then you should not own a gun. That means accepting the fact that you could get mowed down at any moment by someone who's priorities are themselves. That's life, and I accept that. I really feel I'm at peace with my own mortality, at any time and for any reason. Say my head is in the clouds if you wish, but this is something I've really thought long and hard about.
Pongoid, I don't take humans out of the equation. I'm painfully aware that humans are the problem. I just don't see the point of exasperating our violent natures with tools that promote nothing but death. It's like thowing bloody chunks of flesh into a shark feeding frenzy. You know it's only going to cause more trouble.
And another thing, Ape. I respect your opinion above many on this board, and I feel your argument is very intelligent and well thought out. If nothing else, I see where you're coming from. But I'm not kicking down your door and taking your gun so back off and relax a bit. It's called debate. Look it up. I find plenty of time to make music in between my debates.
I like debating. 'Nuff said.
psylichon
We all say we hope the best for humanity, while clutching to our fear of others, fear of our own mortality, fear of the unknown, fear of the government, fear of not "making it", etc. etc. etc. What kind of example is that? Do you want everyone to live in those fears constantly? Can we really go anywhere holding on to that kind of baggage?
It's an overused statement and undeniably corny, but changing the world starts with you. And "you" start with your priorities. If your priority is personal survival, then own your damn guns. If your priority is setting an example, even if only for a few people, and contributing constructively to society, then you should not own a gun. That means accepting the fact that you could get mowed down at any moment by someone who's priorities are themselves. That's life, and I accept that. I really feel I'm at peace with my own mortality, at any time and for any reason. Say my head is in the clouds if you wish, but this is something I've really thought long and hard about.
Pongoid, I don't take humans out of the equation. I'm painfully aware that humans are the problem. I just don't see the point of exasperating our violent natures with tools that promote nothing but death. It's like thowing bloody chunks of flesh into a shark feeding frenzy. You know it's only going to cause more trouble.
And another thing, Ape. I respect your opinion above many on this board, and I feel your argument is very intelligent and well thought out. If nothing else, I see where you're coming from. But I'm not kicking down your door and taking your gun so back off and relax a bit. It's called debate. Look it up. I find plenty of time to make music in between my debates.
I like debating. 'Nuff said.
psylichon
Message 114/147 22-Oct-02 @ 06:16 AM - RE: guns
"whatcha, fluxie is a mac daddy ;)"
uh...is this person a female? I musta missed that
either way, no worries. I dont hit on dudes, and Im not lookin for a girl either
uh...is this person a female? I musta missed that
either way, no worries. I dont hit on dudes, and Im not lookin for a girl either
Message 115/147 22-Oct-02 @ 09:35 AM - RE: guns
Lemme squeeze the following in here and let you carry on... Pongoid, I really would like to add to your point : yes, people kill people but if guns were not laying round on every corner it would be a tad more difficult to and many incidents would not go further than a good old beating. The plain fact is that one less tool is one less option in killing which will change the equation, no matter what.
BTW, I've been attacked by a cook on coke once (no joke) and am positive that running wouldn't have helped if he had held a gun instead of a 15" blade.
BTW, I've been attacked by a cook on coke once (no joke) and am positive that running wouldn't have helped if he had held a gun instead of a 15" blade.
Message 117/147 22-Oct-02 @ 09:58 AM - RE: guns
Morning!
"WROOONNNNNGGG!!!!!!!! People kill people.",
People decide to spend $Bn developing weapons, the accountants step in and value demands a war.
I don't care how poeple occupy their time but when the bullet leaves the barrel - it stops being some elses problem.
OR I don't care how poeple occupy their time but denying that people use what is at hand and if they have a gun they will probably use it
OR I don't care how poeple occupy their time but ranting when their a perfectly good and clear question from Zazza asking about how so much relationship between guns and killing (fu/*n no brainer - lets get a consultant in) "ask the question"
OR I don't care how many are being eroded by nuclear materials being burned in coal fired power stations
nug, anyway ENOUGH
I tell a story of a friendship and being together and death.
So you move around a head full of tolerance and love and just enough pre-sence not to end cut up in the back seat of a gansters motor or buried between serial killers cellars - so far.
You meet people when you are like this. Some of them you can rock all night with but never see again, some you do and wish you hadn't and some you do years later and it's like you's never been away.
My friend Mel died few weeks back and I found out about it yesterday. Now in the middle of the room full of people doing their things and thinking their thoughts I stand still for the slo mo camera to say - do you need to be nearby the thing you look at? can the back of the dolphin trace the movement of rolling people and do you need to do the thing to get the memory of done? It's serious. I mean where do we live.
This isn't some smoochy "I'll always remember you" line but a fair question about speaking to friends who would enjoy a gig and you think of them and they are not there, maybee you even say something to go with the memory of them enjoying it also. I get alot of that living abroad. I mean we could talk about when you do eventually meet that person do you treat them as if they heard the thing you said? I feel that it is yes.
Then there is the rolling people feeling i heard first through The Verve. I can associate with this. I do believe in the moment - in a world of relativity it's all we have - and being a prettry free moving fella - when I have the time - I love the lifting in and out of times, the juxtapositioning and act of doing, not thinking about it times come to me - pretty much always. I am sure you guys get it - perhaps also live for it. Remembers quality moments, she, turning like a marionette dressing herself in our rapture, he, kid failed trying puking in the corner, the curve of leaving yourself in an ecstacy and togetherness in the dry times. The same lights of people there, the timlessness of being there and the inevitablity of moving on (though for arguments sake - you never actualy moved anywhere - you were always going). And these people always going, going nowhere - how do they come together? do they ever leave each other. Are we these people, do they bring the sensation with them.
I had this night once where i am with a top notch chum (justin from Oz) we are sitting apart in a room full of strangers talking here and there, and i remember turning to him as he was turing to me and we look at each other smiling like social animals and i feel that we are dingy captains, with craft, sailing time. You see we turned to look at each other at the same time.
Feel free to skip forward from the blubbering
Then there is the idea that if you can imagine it well enough - you don't need to do it. I wont give you the story but it would have taken such a small outragous movement to do this story making thing. I knew it, I saw it - even the other players I would have needed to make it happen were all in position and stayed there through the movement, BUT I DIDN'T DO IT. This is no remorse thing - it is a demonstration of making a virtual reality and having made it I am free to rely upon it, like i could have amused you with the full version. So imagining a reality from perception becomes just from the telling.
See if you don't need to be near the physicality of the thing to interact with the thing, and if your virtual experiences are communal and your imagination lets you be free from supporting memory with common or garden fact then my friend we are free from all things. Free to dwell and fly, live whole lives from our abstracted moments, explore the eyes picture through the infinite perception and share thoughts to live in others and never die.
Here's to crazy ass livers who had the the stopping done for them, live forever.
peace
A
"WROOONNNNNGGG!!!!!!!! People kill people.",
People decide to spend $Bn developing weapons, the accountants step in and value demands a war.
I don't care how poeple occupy their time but when the bullet leaves the barrel - it stops being some elses problem.
OR I don't care how poeple occupy their time but denying that people use what is at hand and if they have a gun they will probably use it
OR I don't care how poeple occupy their time but ranting when their a perfectly good and clear question from Zazza asking about how so much relationship between guns and killing (fu/*n no brainer - lets get a consultant in) "ask the question"
OR I don't care how many are being eroded by nuclear materials being burned in coal fired power stations
nug, anyway ENOUGH
I tell a story of a friendship and being together and death.
So you move around a head full of tolerance and love and just enough pre-sence not to end cut up in the back seat of a gansters motor or buried between serial killers cellars - so far.
You meet people when you are like this. Some of them you can rock all night with but never see again, some you do and wish you hadn't and some you do years later and it's like you's never been away.
My friend Mel died few weeks back and I found out about it yesterday. Now in the middle of the room full of people doing their things and thinking their thoughts I stand still for the slo mo camera to say - do you need to be nearby the thing you look at? can the back of the dolphin trace the movement of rolling people and do you need to do the thing to get the memory of done? It's serious. I mean where do we live.
This isn't some smoochy "I'll always remember you" line but a fair question about speaking to friends who would enjoy a gig and you think of them and they are not there, maybee you even say something to go with the memory of them enjoying it also. I get alot of that living abroad. I mean we could talk about when you do eventually meet that person do you treat them as if they heard the thing you said? I feel that it is yes.
Then there is the rolling people feeling i heard first through The Verve. I can associate with this. I do believe in the moment - in a world of relativity it's all we have - and being a prettry free moving fella - when I have the time - I love the lifting in and out of times, the juxtapositioning and act of doing, not thinking about it times come to me - pretty much always. I am sure you guys get it - perhaps also live for it. Remembers quality moments, she, turning like a marionette dressing herself in our rapture, he, kid failed trying puking in the corner, the curve of leaving yourself in an ecstacy and togetherness in the dry times. The same lights of people there, the timlessness of being there and the inevitablity of moving on (though for arguments sake - you never actualy moved anywhere - you were always going). And these people always going, going nowhere - how do they come together? do they ever leave each other. Are we these people, do they bring the sensation with them.
I had this night once where i am with a top notch chum (justin from Oz) we are sitting apart in a room full of strangers talking here and there, and i remember turning to him as he was turing to me and we look at each other smiling like social animals and i feel that we are dingy captains, with craft, sailing time. You see we turned to look at each other at the same time.
Feel free to skip forward from the blubbering
Then there is the idea that if you can imagine it well enough - you don't need to do it. I wont give you the story but it would have taken such a small outragous movement to do this story making thing. I knew it, I saw it - even the other players I would have needed to make it happen were all in position and stayed there through the movement, BUT I DIDN'T DO IT. This is no remorse thing - it is a demonstration of making a virtual reality and having made it I am free to rely upon it, like i could have amused you with the full version. So imagining a reality from perception becomes just from the telling.
See if you don't need to be near the physicality of the thing to interact with the thing, and if your virtual experiences are communal and your imagination lets you be free from supporting memory with common or garden fact then my friend we are free from all things. Free to dwell and fly, live whole lives from our abstracted moments, explore the eyes picture through the infinite perception and share thoughts to live in others and never die.
Here's to crazy ass livers who had the the stopping done for them, live forever.
peace
A
Message 118/147 22-Oct-02 @ 10:31 AM Edit: 22-Oct-02 | 10:32 AM - RE: guns
Zazza
Posts: 1502
Link?: No link
File?: No file
Pongoid: 'Less gun deaths in England? Less deaths in England. It's a smaller country'
The rate of murders per 100,000 population in england/wales is about 1.4 - In the US it's 5.7. (3.7 of which are murders involving firearms).
The rate is higher in Northern Ireland (6.1) presumably because they were until recently in the middle of a civil war, although its not much higher than the US.
Scotland comes in at 2.24 and Southern Ireland (Eire) at 0.03!
Here's list of all the countries that beat out the US in the murder per capita stakes:
South Africa
Colombia
Estonia
Brazil
Mexico
Philippines
Taiwan
N. Ireland
The rate of murders per 100,000 population in england/wales is about 1.4 - In the US it's 5.7. (3.7 of which are murders involving firearms).
The rate is higher in Northern Ireland (6.1) presumably because they were until recently in the middle of a civil war, although its not much higher than the US.
Scotland comes in at 2.24 and Southern Ireland (Eire) at 0.03!
Here's list of all the countries that beat out the US in the murder per capita stakes:
South Africa
Colombia
Estonia
Brazil
Mexico
Philippines
Taiwan
N. Ireland
Message 120/147 22-Oct-02 @ 11:52 AM - RE: guns
"... Southern Ireland (Eire) at 0.03!"
that's because they have serve *proper* guiness -cold and headless.
that's because they have serve *proper* guiness -cold and headless.
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