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Forums - The lounge
Subject: why i am happy about the elections
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Original Message Date: 06-Nov-02 @ 01:21 PM - why i am happy about the elections
this probably fits into the category K doesn't want posted here.
so fair warning... if you are offended by the topic of abortion quit reading. and take this point: i am not telling you what to believe, i am telling you what i believe so take it for what it is, an opinion.
ok i think that the republicans gaining control of the senate is the absolute most important thing to ever happen in the past 30 years.
this means that bush gets to appoint judges without having them blocked left and right. so just as clinton did before him, bush can put people into positions of power who are anti-abortion.
i think that abortion is the biggest travesty against human life in america since slavery.
just as the white slave owners of the blacks said that they were not human and thereby justified thier actions in pursuit of wealth i see the same thing happening today.
then it was 'these slaves are not humans therefore to gain wealth and happiness we will abuse them and do as we please with them... since they are not humans they have no rights'
today i see people saying the same thing:
'it doesn't matter that i have created a baby because it isn't a human being. i need to go to college/work/whatever so that i can be happy and prosperous. i will therefore do what i like with this nonhuman so that i can persue wealth and an easy life unhindered'
what exactly is the difference between the slave owners and the current people who choose to take human life in order to serve themselves?
i believe that *should* roe v wade get overturned in this country it will be a great stride forward for all humanity.
extremely inflammatory comment here: if bush gets abortion outlawed or at a minimum pushed back to a states right to choose america will be standing in defense of the helpless and needy.
i am aware many do not agree with me but that is fine. many people were against lincoln when he tried to abolish slavery, afterall they weren't humans.
you guys can slam me if you want (used to it) but this has to be the most important civil rights issue since the MLK days and it affects people of all colors and nationalities indiscriminately.
i hope that justice comes for the innocent lives that are lost every day in the name of greed and selfishness.
jamey
so fair warning... if you are offended by the topic of abortion quit reading. and take this point: i am not telling you what to believe, i am telling you what i believe so take it for what it is, an opinion.
ok i think that the republicans gaining control of the senate is the absolute most important thing to ever happen in the past 30 years.
this means that bush gets to appoint judges without having them blocked left and right. so just as clinton did before him, bush can put people into positions of power who are anti-abortion.
i think that abortion is the biggest travesty against human life in america since slavery.
just as the white slave owners of the blacks said that they were not human and thereby justified thier actions in pursuit of wealth i see the same thing happening today.
then it was 'these slaves are not humans therefore to gain wealth and happiness we will abuse them and do as we please with them... since they are not humans they have no rights'
today i see people saying the same thing:
'it doesn't matter that i have created a baby because it isn't a human being. i need to go to college/work/whatever so that i can be happy and prosperous. i will therefore do what i like with this nonhuman so that i can persue wealth and an easy life unhindered'
what exactly is the difference between the slave owners and the current people who choose to take human life in order to serve themselves?
i believe that *should* roe v wade get overturned in this country it will be a great stride forward for all humanity.
extremely inflammatory comment here: if bush gets abortion outlawed or at a minimum pushed back to a states right to choose america will be standing in defense of the helpless and needy.
i am aware many do not agree with me but that is fine. many people were against lincoln when he tried to abolish slavery, afterall they weren't humans.
you guys can slam me if you want (used to it) but this has to be the most important civil rights issue since the MLK days and it affects people of all colors and nationalities indiscriminately.
i hope that justice comes for the innocent lives that are lost every day in the name of greed and selfishness.
jamey
Message 111/122 14-Nov-02 @ 01:33 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections
Zazza
Posts: 1502
Link?: No link
File?: No file
pict : 'Codified morality is hard work when you're busy dealing with reality.'
Good pragmatic points...
You mean like 'Thou shalt not kill' which an awful lot of 'christians' seem to gloss over when it comes to war/the right to bear arms/assasinating Usama bin laden and such?
Presumably the 'pro-life' people have to rule out killing anyone in any circumstances, even in self-defence, also executions, and definitely in aggressive actions against other countries..
What u think Jamey?
Good pragmatic points...
You mean like 'Thou shalt not kill' which an awful lot of 'christians' seem to gloss over when it comes to war/the right to bear arms/assasinating Usama bin laden and such?
Presumably the 'pro-life' people have to rule out killing anyone in any circumstances, even in self-defence, also executions, and definitely in aggressive actions against other countries..
What u think Jamey?
Message 112/122 14-Nov-02 @ 01:57 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections
i think it is a very simplistic view. but no, a christian would not have to take such a view.
i assume you don't know a lot about christianity or the bible? 'thou shalt not kill' is the KJV translation of the hebrew original; most modern translations render it something like 'you shall not murder'. there appear to be at least 3 different hebrew words for kill, from my cursory examination.
throughout the law are things whose punishment is death; they use a different word for kill than the commandment. i do not think it is conflicting; the idea is based on intent, possibly a different concept of justice than you are used to or agree with but consistent nonetheless. there are (and have been) of course many christian pacifists as well.
i assume you don't know a lot about christianity or the bible? 'thou shalt not kill' is the KJV translation of the hebrew original; most modern translations render it something like 'you shall not murder'. there appear to be at least 3 different hebrew words for kill, from my cursory examination.
throughout the law are things whose punishment is death; they use a different word for kill than the commandment. i do not think it is conflicting; the idea is based on intent, possibly a different concept of justice than you are used to or agree with but consistent nonetheless. there are (and have been) of course many christian pacifists as well.
Message 113/122 14-Nov-02 @ 02:05 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections
and just like you can't stereotype liberals (heh heh tho i like to) the same holds true for christians.
catholics and orthodox are pro life all the way from birth control to the death penalty.
most protestant american christians are pro life but allow BC and like the death penalty.
there is so much room to create your own flavor of christianity that its impossible for them/us to have a united front.
for instance bill clinton was pro abortion supposedly from reading the bible where other politians are against abortion from reading the same words.
what it boils down to is people believe what they want to and then use the religion to justify it.
personal opinion i think the catholics have more balls than anyone in this arena. i am not able to live up to the ideals they preach in the 'life' arena...
jamey
catholics and orthodox are pro life all the way from birth control to the death penalty.
most protestant american christians are pro life but allow BC and like the death penalty.
there is so much room to create your own flavor of christianity that its impossible for them/us to have a united front.
for instance bill clinton was pro abortion supposedly from reading the bible where other politians are against abortion from reading the same words.
what it boils down to is people believe what they want to and then use the religion to justify it.
personal opinion i think the catholics have more balls than anyone in this arena. i am not able to live up to the ideals they preach in the 'life' arena...
jamey
Message 114/122 14-Nov-02 @ 04:34 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections
Zazza
Posts: 1502
Link?: No link
File?: No file
Nomad: And so we come to same old question, who defines 'murder' as opposed to 'killing'?
Me of course!
formant: Yup, absolutely..
Me of course!
formant: Yup, absolutely..
Message 115/122 14-Nov-02 @ 05:32 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections
well, if you're using the bible as your source (since the original point was that christians ignore the biblical commandment 'do not murder'), i'd think there would be a good place to start on defining 'what is murder?' 
but i won't go into that here.
the 'social engineering' arguments are a bit scary to me though... at the time when christianity was born, both abortion and infanticide were very common. many of those same arguments ('it wouldn't live a good life anyways') etc. could easily be extended to support infanticide, or even further...
but i won't go into that here.
the 'social engineering' arguments are a bit scary to me though... at the time when christianity was born, both abortion and infanticide were very common. many of those same arguments ('it wouldn't live a good life anyways') etc. could easily be extended to support infanticide, or even further...
Message 116/122 14-Nov-02 @ 06:08 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections
It's interesting the way they dispense with the argument of "What is human life"... It's a contraversy so we'll just say HUMAN life begins at conception and go from there. But isn't that really what all the fight is about? At what point does the potential for life become varifiable HUMAN sentience? That's why abortion is legal only up to a certain point. Because after that point it was found that there was awareness in the womb. I'm aware that sentience or intelligence as been determined at an earlyier stage. And I'd be open to adjusting the law to prevent abortion after that point.
These folks make a decent argument in their point of erring on the side of caution... "What if we're wrong about sentience" and that little lump of cells can think, feel etc...??? Well, there we are... if that's the case then we're commiting an atrocity... but what if brocolli is actualy very intelligent, and suffers serious pain? Is it murder to eat brocolli because it MAY be self aware? Even when what we understand of brocolli points to the contrary?
e
These folks make a decent argument in their point of erring on the side of caution... "What if we're wrong about sentience" and that little lump of cells can think, feel etc...??? Well, there we are... if that's the case then we're commiting an atrocity... but what if brocolli is actualy very intelligent, and suffers serious pain? Is it murder to eat brocolli because it MAY be self aware? Even when what we understand of brocolli points to the contrary?
e
Message 117/122 14-Nov-02 @ 07:42 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections
wait.. you are suggesting... human.... right, got that.... now wait... "sentience.."????? is that it? you're really saying that, that it's that part in your sentence... "human.." that goes with the other part where you say "sentience." right? you are? you really mean that?
nomad: "well it's the translation"
right pair of comedic stylists you are.
nomad: "well it's the translation"
right pair of comedic stylists you are.
Message 118/122 14-Nov-02 @ 09:40 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections
quantum foam makes me want to roooo-am...
Message 119/122 14-Nov-02 @ 10:12 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections
actually i've noticed these feelings can occur with seemingly any variety of foam, n.
Message 120/122 15-Nov-02 @ 08:54 AM - RE: why i am happy about the elections
And another reason...
The Kind of Noise That Keeps a Body on Balance
By ANNE EISENBERG
EEPING your balance while standing upright can be tricky, particularly for older people.
That is because standing steady is partly a result of slight adjustments to posture that are ordered by the brain in response to sensory information from the feet. But as people age, they become less sensitive to touch and send fewer signals.
Now a Boston University scientist and his colleagues have found a way to use random signals to increase the sensory data coming from the feet.
In a series of experiments, healthy 75-year-olds stood on a platform that transmitted randomly varying vibrations to the soles of their feet. With these good vibrations, the subjects reflexively adjusted their balance until they swayed about the same amount as 25-year-olds who did not receive the random signals. Younger people who used the vibrating system also swayed less.
James J. Collins, a professor of biomedical engineering who led the research group, attributed the improvement to stochastic resonance, a well-known phenomenon in which random noise enhances the detection of weak signals. In this case the noise made the nerves in the feet more sensitive and better able to detect the kinds of pressure changes that occur when the body goes slightly out of balance and puts more pressure on one part of the foot.
"It's a foot massager with a twist," Dr. Collins said of the research setup. The vibrations are not soothing because the motion is below a detectable level, but they do make people more stable.
In the world of signal detection, noise is traditionally viewed as a prime nuisance. Entire courses at engineering schools are devoted to reducing it. Electromagnetic noise creates snow on television sets; acoustic noise makes conversation impossible in some restaurants.
But in Dr. Collins's experiments, as in those of other researchers who have investigated stochastic resonance, certain kinds of noise turn out to be helpful.
"For electrical signals, the low levels of noise essentially tickle the membranes of the neurons," he said, making them more likely to fire when there is a physical stimulus of some amplitude. For mechanical signals, noise serves to boost weak stimuli. "The experiment is a good example of how noise lets a neuron fire in the company of a signal that it is normally unable to detect,'' Dr. Collins said.
Although the principle of stochastic resonance has been investigated for more than a decade, Dr. Collins said, these experiments were the first in which it was shown to improve balance. The effect, described in a paper to appear in the journal Physical Review Letters, may be sufficient to offset age-related declines in balance control, he said.
The platform used in the study has hundreds of small holes; a small plastic rod protrudes slightly through each of them so that it contacts the bottom of the test subject's foot. The rods are hooked up to motors that cause them to vibrate at random frequencies generated by a computer while the test subject is standing quietly.
"They couldn't feel the random vibrations," Dr. Collins said. "We set the noise up at too small an amplitude for them to detect it."
Attila Priplata, a student of Dr. Collins and lead author of the paper, has designed gel-based shoe insoles that contain small vibrating devices designed to produce the same effect. When the researchers repeated the study with people using the insoles, Dr. Collins said, they found even stronger effects.
It is important that the signals be random because neurons quickly get used to regular signals.
John Milton, a neuroscientist at the University of Chicago, said that Dr. Collins's bionic inserts might one day prove to be an inexpensive remedy for legions of aging baby boomers who have grown less steady on their feet. "These noisy sneakers could save a lot of money if they were used for treatment," Dr. Milton said. "And there are no side effects I can imagine from wearing noisy sneakers."
Dr. Collins has written a series of research papers on ways to use stochastic resonance to improve health. An earlier paper, for instance, discussed the use of noise to improve the sensitivity of touch in older adults who suffered diabetes or the effects of a stroke.
But he is well aware of more frivolous applications, particularly for sports equipment. "I could imagine having noise introduced into the handles of golf clubs or tennis rackets," he said. "Or into basketball shoes."
Vibrating shoes might be something like an electronic version of flubber, the magic substance that turned a so-so basketball player into a superstar in the old Walt Disney movie and a recent remake. But Dr. Collins was quick to point out the superiority of his discovery over flubber.
"The energy source in flubber is the material itself," he said. "Here we are taking advantage of the natural senses - the sensory neurons' shifting their detection thresholds to a lower value."
Kurt Weisenfeld, a professor of physics at Georgia Tech who did some of the early defining work in stochastic resonance, said that Dr. Collins's experiments were a striking example of thinking creatively about possible applications of the phenomenon.
"This is a practical idea that could help people maintain their balance," he said. He said he particularly admired Dr. Collins's solution because it is relatively simple.
"For someone with sensory problems, the high-tech answer might be a bionic ankle," he said. "But maybe instead they'll just slip into a pair of bionic socks. Those are a whole lot cheaper."
The Kind of Noise That Keeps a Body on Balance
By ANNE EISENBERG
EEPING your balance while standing upright can be tricky, particularly for older people.
That is because standing steady is partly a result of slight adjustments to posture that are ordered by the brain in response to sensory information from the feet. But as people age, they become less sensitive to touch and send fewer signals.
Now a Boston University scientist and his colleagues have found a way to use random signals to increase the sensory data coming from the feet.
In a series of experiments, healthy 75-year-olds stood on a platform that transmitted randomly varying vibrations to the soles of their feet. With these good vibrations, the subjects reflexively adjusted their balance until they swayed about the same amount as 25-year-olds who did not receive the random signals. Younger people who used the vibrating system also swayed less.
James J. Collins, a professor of biomedical engineering who led the research group, attributed the improvement to stochastic resonance, a well-known phenomenon in which random noise enhances the detection of weak signals. In this case the noise made the nerves in the feet more sensitive and better able to detect the kinds of pressure changes that occur when the body goes slightly out of balance and puts more pressure on one part of the foot.
"It's a foot massager with a twist," Dr. Collins said of the research setup. The vibrations are not soothing because the motion is below a detectable level, but they do make people more stable.
In the world of signal detection, noise is traditionally viewed as a prime nuisance. Entire courses at engineering schools are devoted to reducing it. Electromagnetic noise creates snow on television sets; acoustic noise makes conversation impossible in some restaurants.
But in Dr. Collins's experiments, as in those of other researchers who have investigated stochastic resonance, certain kinds of noise turn out to be helpful.
"For electrical signals, the low levels of noise essentially tickle the membranes of the neurons," he said, making them more likely to fire when there is a physical stimulus of some amplitude. For mechanical signals, noise serves to boost weak stimuli. "The experiment is a good example of how noise lets a neuron fire in the company of a signal that it is normally unable to detect,'' Dr. Collins said.
Although the principle of stochastic resonance has been investigated for more than a decade, Dr. Collins said, these experiments were the first in which it was shown to improve balance. The effect, described in a paper to appear in the journal Physical Review Letters, may be sufficient to offset age-related declines in balance control, he said.
The platform used in the study has hundreds of small holes; a small plastic rod protrudes slightly through each of them so that it contacts the bottom of the test subject's foot. The rods are hooked up to motors that cause them to vibrate at random frequencies generated by a computer while the test subject is standing quietly.
"They couldn't feel the random vibrations," Dr. Collins said. "We set the noise up at too small an amplitude for them to detect it."
Attila Priplata, a student of Dr. Collins and lead author of the paper, has designed gel-based shoe insoles that contain small vibrating devices designed to produce the same effect. When the researchers repeated the study with people using the insoles, Dr. Collins said, they found even stronger effects.
It is important that the signals be random because neurons quickly get used to regular signals.
John Milton, a neuroscientist at the University of Chicago, said that Dr. Collins's bionic inserts might one day prove to be an inexpensive remedy for legions of aging baby boomers who have grown less steady on their feet. "These noisy sneakers could save a lot of money if they were used for treatment," Dr. Milton said. "And there are no side effects I can imagine from wearing noisy sneakers."
Dr. Collins has written a series of research papers on ways to use stochastic resonance to improve health. An earlier paper, for instance, discussed the use of noise to improve the sensitivity of touch in older adults who suffered diabetes or the effects of a stroke.
But he is well aware of more frivolous applications, particularly for sports equipment. "I could imagine having noise introduced into the handles of golf clubs or tennis rackets," he said. "Or into basketball shoes."
Vibrating shoes might be something like an electronic version of flubber, the magic substance that turned a so-so basketball player into a superstar in the old Walt Disney movie and a recent remake. But Dr. Collins was quick to point out the superiority of his discovery over flubber.
"The energy source in flubber is the material itself," he said. "Here we are taking advantage of the natural senses - the sensory neurons' shifting their detection thresholds to a lower value."
Kurt Weisenfeld, a professor of physics at Georgia Tech who did some of the early defining work in stochastic resonance, said that Dr. Collins's experiments were a striking example of thinking creatively about possible applications of the phenomenon.
"This is a practical idea that could help people maintain their balance," he said. He said he particularly admired Dr. Collins's solution because it is relatively simple.
"For someone with sensory problems, the high-tech answer might be a bionic ankle," he said. "But maybe instead they'll just slip into a pair of bionic socks. Those are a whole lot cheaper."
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