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Forums - Computer music & technology
Subject: buying a new pc
Original Message Date: 21-Jul-00 @ 06:08 PM - buying a new pc
I'm soon buying a new pc custom built. These people did me solid on the last one. Couple of questions:
Somebody suggested getting an Athlon chip instead of a Pentium. Is Athlon really better for digital audio and graphics? I would otherwise get a P3 850 Mhz. I also have to look into Athlon compatibility with Logic, Cake, and Layla. Anyone know of compatibility problems between Athlon and any music software?
Would I be better off in your opinions to get a scsi hard-drive with less storage space> Otherwise I am planning on getting a 30GB IDE 7200 rpm hd.
The motherboard will be an ASUS 133 bus and probably with the square pentium chip slot as opposed to the long rectangular one. Scsi or Athlon will change tat of course. Is there any difference between the two chip configurations? I'm told that Intel is phasing out the rectangular one in favor of the square one.
Also an ASUS GeForce 32mg video card. I need to check that for compatibility also.
Lastly I'm sticking with Windows 98 because I detect that Logic and Windows 2000 have not totally embraced eachother yet.
Any comments, answers, insights are more than welcome.
Somebody suggested getting an Athlon chip instead of a Pentium. Is Athlon really better for digital audio and graphics? I would otherwise get a P3 850 Mhz. I also have to look into Athlon compatibility with Logic, Cake, and Layla. Anyone know of compatibility problems between Athlon and any music software?
Would I be better off in your opinions to get a scsi hard-drive with less storage space> Otherwise I am planning on getting a 30GB IDE 7200 rpm hd.
The motherboard will be an ASUS 133 bus and probably with the square pentium chip slot as opposed to the long rectangular one. Scsi or Athlon will change tat of course. Is there any difference between the two chip configurations? I'm told that Intel is phasing out the rectangular one in favor of the square one.
Also an ASUS GeForce 32mg video card. I need to check that for compatibility also.
Lastly I'm sticking with Windows 98 because I detect that Logic and Windows 2000 have not totally embraced eachother yet.
Any comments, answers, insights are more than welcome.
Message 21/54 25-Jul-00 @ 07:57 AM - RE: buying a new pc
i'm not talking about FP processing at all... thats internal calculus... but i'm sure some older (not THAT old) sound devices have problems with a 133 fsb ... as do some agp cards... innit?
Message 22/54 25-Jul-00 @ 10:07 AM - RE: buying a new pc
The problems were with the chipsets on the motherboars since the new VIA chipset.
I am getting an ASSUS K7V motherboard and an 750 athlon probably overclock to 900 Mhz i am searching for new ram too.
i am converting my old pc (p400 128ram sblive) to do sampling ,burning cds, either gigasampler or unity ds-1 atleast i am gonna try.. I wanna get 32-50 polyphony
and 10ms. response time... hope it works, that would stop me buying a sampler. I am networking the pcs so we can play couple games too. i am gonna install the minumum version of the windows with no internet explorer (try this if you pc is slow, no active desktop either) no progrmas running on the background either.
i have almost 2 of everything except the soundcards any suggestions?
I might even get the powersampler but i heard its not that great.
I am getting an ASSUS K7V motherboard and an 750 athlon probably overclock to 900 Mhz i am searching for new ram too.
i am converting my old pc (p400 128ram sblive) to do sampling ,burning cds, either gigasampler or unity ds-1 atleast i am gonna try.. I wanna get 32-50 polyphony
and 10ms. response time... hope it works, that would stop me buying a sampler. I am networking the pcs so we can play couple games too. i am gonna install the minumum version of the windows with no internet explorer (try this if you pc is slow, no active desktop either) no progrmas running on the background either.
i have almost 2 of everything except the soundcards any suggestions?
I might even get the powersampler but i heard its not that great.
Message 23/54 25-Jul-00 @ 11:15 AM - RE: buying a new pc
whoah 10ms.. thats low.. what card you hoping to get that from ??
Message 24/54 25-Jul-00 @ 12:16 PM - RE: buying a new pc
I'm not suggesting that all chips are bad and all that, just repeating what I have been told. I write music, not build computers, so I didn't spend 24hours/day for 3 months researching this stuff. I'm not surprised if I have a few things wrong, but if I were to build another PC again, I would do a much better job of it. Learning experience.
Message 25/54 25-Jul-00 @ 12:30 PM - RE: buying a new pc
DefectorZ - What you've heard about AMD being weak in the floating point department was true up until the Athlon came out. The Athlon has superior floating point speed to the P-III, although the coppermine chips have new FPUs that are supposedly better than the Athlon.
K - I have no idea why the cards don't work. You could be as right as I am ;-) I'll see if I can find anything out, but I'm suspecting that AMD will want to hush up any incompatibilities, so probably won't find much info.
I have heard that it was the VIA chipsets that most cards have problems with. Dunno though. I'm still trying to get answers from a couple of sound card companies as to why/what/if they will work with AMD based machines. Most notably, I'm trying to find a compatable ADAT card so I can interfcae with the 01V and dump the Darwin HD recorder (it's fine, but I'd prefer on-screen editing, easier cut/copy/paste, more tracks, plugins, etc. DAWs are just better)
-Craig
-Craig
K - I have no idea why the cards don't work. You could be as right as I am ;-) I'll see if I can find anything out, but I'm suspecting that AMD will want to hush up any incompatibilities, so probably won't find much info.
I have heard that it was the VIA chipsets that most cards have problems with. Dunno though. I'm still trying to get answers from a couple of sound card companies as to why/what/if they will work with AMD based machines. Most notably, I'm trying to find a compatable ADAT card so I can interfcae with the 01V and dump the Darwin HD recorder (it's fine, but I'd prefer on-screen editing, easier cut/copy/paste, more tracks, plugins, etc. DAWs are just better)
-Craig
-Craig
Message 26/54 25-Jul-00 @ 07:51 PM - RE: buying a new pc
well, the lowest rates seem to be from rme hammerfall for latency, Stephan from Native Instruments was rating them highly... but you'd need a seperate midi port as they dont come with - alesis make their own adat card but it's sposed to have horrendous latency and not be too hot - frontier design do one... dunno bout Terratec, midiman and gadgetlabs etc, i aint gone over for a while, but they all do big multi-i/o systems.. wether they have adat options i dunno.. korg have the 1212 but that again sposed to be not too hot, dunno bout the new ones tho cos they re-vamped it didnt they... thats all i can think of right now
Message 27/54 26-Jul-00 @ 04:16 AM - RE: buying a new pc
I build computers all day for a living for studios princes keyboard player ect.
I worked for mars guitar center and as a rep for sonic foundry. I have seen some athalon systems work great on some stuff, but I have also seen them fail on
one program and work on anather on the same system.Why Intel??
In a nutshell when Audio Software designers write the code for computers to record Audio they build the design around Intel's Pentium processor, therefore to get the most performance you need a Pentium chip.
In the future this will not be the case, but for now better safe than having glitches and pops and clicks in your audio playback.
Understanding a processors role in Digital Audio
Often people misunderstand what a processors capabilities are in audio applications, the misconception lies in: "A faster processor gives me more tracks of playback." Wrong
Example:I fitted a standard 233 with a SCSI drive and a SCSI card and was able to play 24 tracks when before I could only play 8. This is because a processor is nothing more than a high speed calculator not a Bandwidth pusher.
Role:It is simple a CPU's main role is for doing Plug In's and sequencing that is why buying a superfast Discount computer at Best Buy and Comp USA, is not the answer for you, you need a custom build.
Bandwidth and Motherboard Bus speed?
Your Soundcard is plugged into your PCI expansion slot and connected to the PCI motherboard Bus. Bandwidth is the amount of Audio running back and forth on that Bus. Your typical PCI bus is only 66mhz, Ram is 100-133mhz, and finally your CPU is 233mhz-1000mhz. None of this makes sense but it will very soon.
The Bottle neck effect
500mhz-(cpu)
100mhz-(motherboard)
66mhz(Soundcard)
notice how the numbers get smaller? Your audio runs off the PCI bus at 66mhz so even with a hefty wefty PIII-800 that cost you $500 your trying to suck a basketball through a straw with a Vacuum!!!!!
So what the hell am I trying to say? SCSI to the rescue!!
SCSI
by not being able to keep up with the flow of data your (slow) ATA-66 and IDE drives cant maintain constant bandwidth, fluctuating up and down throughout playback causing lock ups, pops clicks and head aches!!!
Your CPU tries to make up the slack but uses too much math to be useful for anything else like: PLUG IN'S.This is were SCSI interface comes in. Having it's own onboard processor for a SCSI drive and Card you are able to free up the CPU for what it is meant for (math) and plug in's. In addition to freeing up CPU, it has a stable bandwidth of 40mg-80mg depending on the version Ultra, Ultra-w, Ultra2w. This means no data surges, just a straight boost of constant transfer of Audio.
My PIII-600e through PIII-700e SCSI machines will outperform your buddies PIII-900 in the Audio category for all of the for mentioned reasons.
if you need a custom system check out the best priced Power PC's from
a veteran who knows Audio!!!!!
justin lynch 651-696-9128
http://drastiksolutions.11net.com
I worked for mars guitar center and as a rep for sonic foundry. I have seen some athalon systems work great on some stuff, but I have also seen them fail on
one program and work on anather on the same system.Why Intel??
In a nutshell when Audio Software designers write the code for computers to record Audio they build the design around Intel's Pentium processor, therefore to get the most performance you need a Pentium chip.
In the future this will not be the case, but for now better safe than having glitches and pops and clicks in your audio playback.
Understanding a processors role in Digital Audio
Often people misunderstand what a processors capabilities are in audio applications, the misconception lies in: "A faster processor gives me more tracks of playback." Wrong
Example:I fitted a standard 233 with a SCSI drive and a SCSI card and was able to play 24 tracks when before I could only play 8. This is because a processor is nothing more than a high speed calculator not a Bandwidth pusher.
Role:It is simple a CPU's main role is for doing Plug In's and sequencing that is why buying a superfast Discount computer at Best Buy and Comp USA, is not the answer for you, you need a custom build.
Bandwidth and Motherboard Bus speed?
Your Soundcard is plugged into your PCI expansion slot and connected to the PCI motherboard Bus. Bandwidth is the amount of Audio running back and forth on that Bus. Your typical PCI bus is only 66mhz, Ram is 100-133mhz, and finally your CPU is 233mhz-1000mhz. None of this makes sense but it will very soon.
The Bottle neck effect
500mhz-(cpu)
100mhz-(motherboard)
66mhz(Soundcard)
notice how the numbers get smaller? Your audio runs off the PCI bus at 66mhz so even with a hefty wefty PIII-800 that cost you $500 your trying to suck a basketball through a straw with a Vacuum!!!!!
So what the hell am I trying to say? SCSI to the rescue!!
SCSI
by not being able to keep up with the flow of data your (slow) ATA-66 and IDE drives cant maintain constant bandwidth, fluctuating up and down throughout playback causing lock ups, pops clicks and head aches!!!
Your CPU tries to make up the slack but uses too much math to be useful for anything else like: PLUG IN'S.This is were SCSI interface comes in. Having it's own onboard processor for a SCSI drive and Card you are able to free up the CPU for what it is meant for (math) and plug in's. In addition to freeing up CPU, it has a stable bandwidth of 40mg-80mg depending on the version Ultra, Ultra-w, Ultra2w. This means no data surges, just a straight boost of constant transfer of Audio.
My PIII-600e through PIII-700e SCSI machines will outperform your buddies PIII-900 in the Audio category for all of the for mentioned reasons.
if you need a custom system check out the best priced Power PC's from
a veteran who knows Audio!!!!!
justin lynch 651-696-9128
http://drastiksolutions.11net.com
Message 28/54 26-Jul-00 @ 08:36 AM - RE: buying a new pc
Justin - you have made me feel alot better. :-) I am building my own SCSI machine - SCSI all the way around - but like I said, the CPU is defective, we think.
Actually, i don't know how "professional" you are (but let's assume you are), maybe you would like to do a computer audio article. You know, what to look out for, that sort of thing. It may not increase your business, but it would be really helpful for folks like myself. :-)
Actually, i don't know how "professional" you are (but let's assume you are), maybe you would like to do a computer audio article. You know, what to look out for, that sort of thing. It may not increase your business, but it would be really helpful for folks like myself. :-)
Message 29/54 26-Jul-00 @ 08:51 AM - RE: buying a new pc
Justin - just checked the website. Pretty impressive. What's the going rate for your PIII600e system? I just put together a system very similar to that and I am curious where your price fits in what I paid. thanks.
Message 30/54 26-Jul-00 @ 03:54 PM - RE: buying a new pc
Justin -
Yeah - me again. :-) Hey, I saw that you offer systems with the M Audio Delta 1010. What has your experience been with this card? How does it compare to comparably equipped cards in that range. Multi analog I/O's, SPDIF I/O, high quality rack type stuff? I am in the market for a new card in the range of that above mentioned, as well as the Aardvard Aark 24. Any thoughts on any of that? What would you recommend and what would you use?
Yeah - me again. :-) Hey, I saw that you offer systems with the M Audio Delta 1010. What has your experience been with this card? How does it compare to comparably equipped cards in that range. Multi analog I/O's, SPDIF I/O, high quality rack type stuff? I am in the market for a new card in the range of that above mentioned, as well as the Aardvard Aark 24. Any thoughts on any of that? What would you recommend and what would you use?
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