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Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: hardware mixing
Original Message Date: 23-May-02 @ 07:36 PM - hardware mixing
any of you out there mixing using a hardware mixer?
I've been wondering if someone would ever decide to go to a software setup after they've been using mostly hardware....
the reason I ask is that I have always imagined a hardware setup to be the ideal... just sequence the midi, every instrument is feeding into the desk, and start flipping faders and adding fx for a mixdown... I can't help but think that twisting knobs for compression and EQ settings would be somehow better.... I thought that it would also be faster to make tracks, since I don't have to record every single midi track into audio inside my PC - the midi-triggered sounds would just come in through my desk channels.... no need to render them... right??!!?
but lately all this talk about software sampling, etc. is making me wonder.... more and more people are saying they want everything inside the box, and I can see their point.... we're getting closer and closer to all-in-one sample/sequence/edit/midi and it's feckin cool...
this matters to me because if I am aiming toward a hardware setup, I will prolly buy different stuff in the next few years, and I can't decide which way to go....
any talk about the pros and cons of hardware mixing/setups is welcome... thanks!!
I've been wondering if someone would ever decide to go to a software setup after they've been using mostly hardware....
the reason I ask is that I have always imagined a hardware setup to be the ideal... just sequence the midi, every instrument is feeding into the desk, and start flipping faders and adding fx for a mixdown... I can't help but think that twisting knobs for compression and EQ settings would be somehow better.... I thought that it would also be faster to make tracks, since I don't have to record every single midi track into audio inside my PC - the midi-triggered sounds would just come in through my desk channels.... no need to render them... right??!!?
but lately all this talk about software sampling, etc. is making me wonder.... more and more people are saying they want everything inside the box, and I can see their point.... we're getting closer and closer to all-in-one sample/sequence/edit/midi and it's feckin cool...
this matters to me because if I am aiming toward a hardware setup, I will prolly buy different stuff in the next few years, and I can't decide which way to go....
any talk about the pros and cons of hardware mixing/setups is welcome... thanks!!
Message 21/31 29-May-02 @ 01:44 AM - RE: hardware mixing
Audio is the way to go influx. I only see midi as a tool for getting hand sequenced grooves playable and looped. Other than that, midi can be detracting in the way one writes music (IMO). different for everyone tho.
Software mixing is cool, much better than hardware for quickness and instant gratification. Using sliders to mix is cool, b/c things are in realtime... But, with software, you get the best of editing - like a deep programming language (you prolly already know this). Running things through hardware is my way, then 'soft' it out.
Best thing about audio is manipulating sounds while everything is on screen. Tasty Pro Tools fades coupled with RTAS plugins can give a really big sound.
your in for a lot of fun. :-)
Software mixing is cool, much better than hardware for quickness and instant gratification. Using sliders to mix is cool, b/c things are in realtime... But, with software, you get the best of editing - like a deep programming language (you prolly already know this). Running things through hardware is my way, then 'soft' it out.
Best thing about audio is manipulating sounds while everything is on screen. Tasty Pro Tools fades coupled with RTAS plugins can give a really big sound.
your in for a lot of fun. :-)
Message 22/31 29-May-02 @ 02:38 AM - RE: hardware mixing
Interesting. I used to sequence audio and found it to be a bitch. I guess I see where you are coming from...
Message 23/31 29-May-02 @ 03:35 AM - RE: hardware mixing
yeah but you had MAJOR pc problems didnt you?
panama...for some reason I thought you were still doing all midi
the one thing about the audio thing that I am gonna be SO stoked about is the CLEAN sound I can get when I want it.
running midi...8 outs on my sampler, 6 on the virus, 2 FX returns all going at once..NOISE NOISE NOISE!!!
now the only noise will be the shit that I introduce.
and..with that tube preamp and meek compressor..shit will sound SOLID when I track it!
damn Im looking forward to this shit
panama...for some reason I thought you were still doing all midi
the one thing about the audio thing that I am gonna be SO stoked about is the CLEAN sound I can get when I want it.
running midi...8 outs on my sampler, 6 on the virus, 2 FX returns all going at once..NOISE NOISE NOISE!!!
now the only noise will be the shit that I introduce.
and..with that tube preamp and meek compressor..shit will sound SOLID when I track it!
damn Im looking forward to this shit
Message 24/31 29-May-02 @ 04:35 AM - RE: hardware mixing
hey influx, what meek are you using? I am thinking of getting a TWINq cs.
Message 25/31 29-May-02 @ 06:57 AM - RE: hardware mixing
Well, all my midi stuff is done on hardware
then recorded in PT LE. So you could say I do
midi - But most of the effort is in working with
Audio.
good that you going for audio now... maybe
you'll change your ideas about the over priced
TDM... Which overpriced, but it's soooooo
sweet
then recorded in PT LE. So you could say I do
midi - But most of the effort is in working with
Audio.
good that you going for audio now... maybe
you'll change your ideas about the over priced
TDM... Which overpriced, but it's soooooo
sweet
Message 26/31 29-May-02 @ 10:37 AM - RE: hardware mixing
itll never happen.
Brett..its a C2. low-level but I like the thick sound of it
Brett..its a C2. low-level but I like the thick sound of it
Message 27/31 29-May-02 @ 12:54 PM - RE: hardware mixing
tortoise, tell me more about that Ramsa/Panasonic mate please, like build quality etc & how you use it and what with?
also with VST or Logic, Sonar etc you could setup a cheap semi-control - all you need is one 16 channel fader controller unit for your faders & pans & another dedicated controller unit which you can assign to EQ or FX tasks on a channel-by-channel basis, and wire those two in on a midi merge box -
The 'eq assigned' controller would control the eq on a 'per-channel' basis as you flipped between channels (I can use the darkstar for example like that in VST to control VST's eq section & fx sends)
I would predict that sometime soon the majors will get into releasing controller boards... I think they will become the 'next big thing' like VA's were the last big thing.
but on the other hand, the hardware companies have a vested interest NOT to encourage people down a s/w route by providing cheap but quality controllers, so it's hard to say... they should be here already, & much more prevalent than they are currently.
also with VST or Logic, Sonar etc you could setup a cheap semi-control - all you need is one 16 channel fader controller unit for your faders & pans & another dedicated controller unit which you can assign to EQ or FX tasks on a channel-by-channel basis, and wire those two in on a midi merge box -
The 'eq assigned' controller would control the eq on a 'per-channel' basis as you flipped between channels (I can use the darkstar for example like that in VST to control VST's eq section & fx sends)
I would predict that sometime soon the majors will get into releasing controller boards... I think they will become the 'next big thing' like VA's were the last big thing.
but on the other hand, the hardware companies have a vested interest NOT to encourage people down a s/w route by providing cheap but quality controllers, so it's hard to say... they should be here already, & much more prevalent than they are currently.
Message 28/31 29-May-02 @ 03:12 PM - RE: hardware mixing
>> but you gotta go one sound at a time.
how few busses does your hw mixer have? how many ins on your soundcard? through 4 subs and individual channel outs I'll fly up to 8 at a time into the computer. unless I'm multitracking the sh-101, but that's another story.
how few busses does your hw mixer have? how many ins on your soundcard? through 4 subs and individual channel outs I'll fly up to 8 at a time into the computer. unless I'm multitracking the sh-101, but that's another story.
Message 29/31 29-May-02 @ 07:33 PM - RE: hardware mixing
So the meek stuff does the fat well. Did you use it on most of your bass. i like the puch of your drums and bass. I think the TwinQ will do me fine. Two mic pre's two meekqualizers,and dual mono/stereo opto comp. I have seen them Ebay for $699. I was going to go with a MTA channel and then buy a used dbx 162. I just don't think I will have that kind of money. The twinq should do what I need for input and mixdown. I may run my softsynths through it to before mixdown.. The bass and drums anyway.
Message 30/31 30-May-02 @ 12:33 AM - RE: hardware mixing
tortoise
Posts: 107
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k: The Panasonic DA7 is pretty solid board, and well made. It has a reputation for being very reliable, and I've never heard any complaints about build quality on the webboards for the DA7. The only problem that has really occurred is that the first units had a fan that got noisy after a while, but Panasonic changed the fan design and replaced them. The only other design defect I know of is a headphone jack that clearly wasn't meant to be used. I didn't even discover the jack until I'd had it for six months (it is well-hidden), and it isn't mentioned in the manuals. Which is fine, because using one of the monitoring busses for headphones is more flexible anyway (what I did during the months when I didn't know there was a headphone jack).
I've used most of the "lower end" (read: <$25k) digital mixers at one time or another, and the DA7 is definitely a "pro" design rather than a "project" or "home studio" design. A lot of people don't know that Panasonic has been making very high-end and very large (e.g. 256-channels) digital consoles for some time, and the DA7 is really more of a reduced channel version of their big digital consoles.
There are a number of features on it that give away the fact that it was derived from a professional studio design spec. 1024-step 100mm faders. More dedicated I/O than I've seen on any similar board. Full dedicated channel strips for the aux sends AND the aux returns. Lots of inserts (digital or analog inserts for the busses). A decent 5.1 surround mixing system. Multiple dedicated monitoring busses. A very mature and thorough operating system. A good sounding and very powerful EQ/filter system on each channel/aux/bus with an EQ librarian function for creating EQ/filter patches you can apply to channels. A great virtual patchbay for connecting and routing all the various inputs and outputs it offers -- a feature which on the DA7 is much more powerful than it sounds. MIDI fader layer with HUI control surface support.
I don't use a good fraction of the features the DA7 has, but I currently use it with Logic 4.8.1 on a Mac G4. I have 16-channels of lightpipe in and out of the computer plus 16-channels of analog. Incidentally, the ADC quality on the inputs is much better than average for a digital console, though only 24-bit 44.1/48kHz -- quite transparent as these things go and not harsh at all.
Overall, I really like the thing. The only real upgrade path at this point would be something like the spiffy Sony digital consoles in terms of the sound and features. This is the first console I've owned where I didn't feel restricted in how I could configure and route things, or in the number of resources available on the board. One of my big complaints about budget digital mixers is the lack of dedicated I/Os for all the features they theoretically support, a problem the DA7 doesn't have and one of the reasons I bought it.
I've used most of the "lower end" (read: <$25k) digital mixers at one time or another, and the DA7 is definitely a "pro" design rather than a "project" or "home studio" design. A lot of people don't know that Panasonic has been making very high-end and very large (e.g. 256-channels) digital consoles for some time, and the DA7 is really more of a reduced channel version of their big digital consoles.
There are a number of features on it that give away the fact that it was derived from a professional studio design spec. 1024-step 100mm faders. More dedicated I/O than I've seen on any similar board. Full dedicated channel strips for the aux sends AND the aux returns. Lots of inserts (digital or analog inserts for the busses). A decent 5.1 surround mixing system. Multiple dedicated monitoring busses. A very mature and thorough operating system. A good sounding and very powerful EQ/filter system on each channel/aux/bus with an EQ librarian function for creating EQ/filter patches you can apply to channels. A great virtual patchbay for connecting and routing all the various inputs and outputs it offers -- a feature which on the DA7 is much more powerful than it sounds. MIDI fader layer with HUI control surface support.
I don't use a good fraction of the features the DA7 has, but I currently use it with Logic 4.8.1 on a Mac G4. I have 16-channels of lightpipe in and out of the computer plus 16-channels of analog. Incidentally, the ADC quality on the inputs is much better than average for a digital console, though only 24-bit 44.1/48kHz -- quite transparent as these things go and not harsh at all.
Overall, I really like the thing. The only real upgrade path at this point would be something like the spiffy Sony digital consoles in terms of the sound and features. This is the first console I've owned where I didn't feel restricted in how I could configure and route things, or in the number of resources available on the board. One of my big complaints about budget digital mixers is the lack of dedicated I/Os for all the features they theoretically support, a problem the DA7 doesn't have and one of the reasons I bought it.
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