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Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: while on the subject of compressors
Original Message Date: 09-Aug-02 @ 10:32 PM - while on the subject of compressors
my freind has released a few rcords that sound pretty good. He used softsynths run through a SSL at a studio his freind interns at. His kicks and bass are pretty tight. They have that crunch in the bottom I like. I had read a while back that the compressors in the SSL are very good for this. What kind of compressors are in those consoles and do they sell them as stand alone units. If not what is a good stand alone equivelant?
Message 21/55 15-Aug-02 @ 01:32 AM - RE: while on the subject of compressors
"willy popped his head in and held up a fatty" pide piper, magic flute...lol
Message 22/55 15-Aug-02 @ 05:38 PM - RE: while on the subject of compressors
ha ha aha ha ah ah
WEGRO!!!
i nearly wet myself in the office and had to go home....
so you gonna DIY?
couldn't you just run some samples thru an ssl desk you could go to a studio etc or you want it for all your mixes i guess.....
jamey
WEGRO!!!
i nearly wet myself in the office and had to go home....
so you gonna DIY?
couldn't you just run some samples thru an ssl desk you could go to a studio etc or you want it for all your mixes i guess.....
jamey
Message 23/55 15-Aug-02 @ 06:50 PM - RE: while on the subject of compressors
The SSL compressor is worth at least $3000 on its own. As said before, Smart Research makes a standalone box with the same circuitry (I'm not sure if they actually make the SSL compressor, though).
The compressors on the channels of an SSL (4000 and 9000 series) have rudimentary compressors (I use that term loosely... OBVIOUSLY they're of very high quality, I love em on vocals because they're so transparent. But there's limited speed controls i.e. no attack parameter. Not that great for drums). I've heard people compare them to a DBX 160, but the response is a bit different.
It's the stereo mix buss compressor that most people refer to when they talk about "that SSL sound." Dorks back at Berklee called the insert button for that compressor the "make it a record button." It is a really smooth compressor with wonderful attack and release characteristics that just add a great tubbiness to the track. It's not magic, but it sure sounds like it to most people.
Anyway, it's kinda tricky to even patch an individual track into the mix buss comp... you basically have to patch into the master fader (pre-VCA insert on the patchbay). Or you could run your samples through the mix buss. Some engineers would avoid the extra circuitry, but I personally don't think all that extra circuitry sounds all that bad in an SSL. Some engineers are freaks.
Hope this answers some questions. If you have more, ask, because I do use an SSL at work. But let me know if I become snobbish, because those people are the worst to work with...
psylichon
The compressors on the channels of an SSL (4000 and 9000 series) have rudimentary compressors (I use that term loosely... OBVIOUSLY they're of very high quality, I love em on vocals because they're so transparent. But there's limited speed controls i.e. no attack parameter. Not that great for drums). I've heard people compare them to a DBX 160, but the response is a bit different.
It's the stereo mix buss compressor that most people refer to when they talk about "that SSL sound." Dorks back at Berklee called the insert button for that compressor the "make it a record button." It is a really smooth compressor with wonderful attack and release characteristics that just add a great tubbiness to the track. It's not magic, but it sure sounds like it to most people.
Anyway, it's kinda tricky to even patch an individual track into the mix buss comp... you basically have to patch into the master fader (pre-VCA insert on the patchbay). Or you could run your samples through the mix buss. Some engineers would avoid the extra circuitry, but I personally don't think all that extra circuitry sounds all that bad in an SSL. Some engineers are freaks.
Hope this answers some questions. If you have more, ask, because I do use an SSL at work. But let me know if I become snobbish, because those people are the worst to work with...
psylichon
Message 24/55 15-Aug-02 @ 08:45 PM - RE: while on the subject of compressors
i was looking at the DIY stuff with interest (my father is an electonics whiz)
physlicon would it be possible or too much to ask for some a/b type things? like 909 loops dry and then thru the ssl buss compresser etc?
or is there stuff like that already out there?
i just want to *hear* what we are talking about before i start bugging my dad to help me burn circuit boards etc :-)
i am sure i have 'heard' it before but want to get some examples.
i have some software plugs that emulate vintage compressors and love them head over heels better than the 'plain' compressors so i think the ssl thing might be good to look into as a DIY project.
oh btw brett, i found a source for the vca chips you will need for it if you end up doing it.
jamey
physlicon would it be possible or too much to ask for some a/b type things? like 909 loops dry and then thru the ssl buss compresser etc?
or is there stuff like that already out there?
i just want to *hear* what we are talking about before i start bugging my dad to help me burn circuit boards etc :-)
i am sure i have 'heard' it before but want to get some examples.
i have some software plugs that emulate vintage compressors and love them head over heels better than the 'plain' compressors so i think the ssl thing might be good to look into as a DIY project.
oh btw brett, i found a source for the vca chips you will need for it if you end up doing it.
jamey
Message 25/55 15-Aug-02 @ 09:00 PM - RE: while on the subject of compressors
I wouldn't mind doing some A/Bing, but I think it would be more appropriate to run a mix through it rather than drum samples. It'll be easier to hear the sound on an "overcompressed" mix than on a sample. Mix compression is how it's used 99% of the time anyway.
There's also the point that I don't have webspace, and lofi samples aren't gonna show much. Any ideas?
psylichon
There's also the point that I don't have webspace, and lofi samples aren't gonna show much. Any ideas?
psylichon
Message 26/55 15-Aug-02 @ 09:10 PM - RE: while on the subject of compressors
well i meant like 909 drum loops (kicks and all) or something everyone knew what they sounded like dry (like a standard)
but yah entire mixes is good as well...
i have some web space we can use as long as its under 10 megs or so...
if we do 256kbps mp3s its just as good as wave files so that will save some room.
i have some unmastered stuff of some old bedrock tunes (at least it seems unmastered) that we could use on cd.
any other ideas? the 909 drumloops will give me an idea at a minimum.
jamey
but yah entire mixes is good as well...
i have some web space we can use as long as its under 10 megs or so...
if we do 256kbps mp3s its just as good as wave files so that will save some room.
i have some unmastered stuff of some old bedrock tunes (at least it seems unmastered) that we could use on cd.
any other ideas? the 909 drumloops will give me an idea at a minimum.
jamey
Message 27/55 16-Aug-02 @ 02:25 AM - RE: while on the subject of compressors
there is one problem i see with the DIY project that these guys are doing. they change the desing and then say , it sounds almost the same. now this is the opinion of the guy who just spent coun tless hours designing the layout for a pcb to put this together. Now look at the compressor setting. his project only has ratio's of 2:1,4:1, 10:1.
so the original uses a dbx202 VCA, they hard to find so he changed the design to use a DBX 2150, a 2155, or even a THAT 2150 for the two VCA's. These are the same as the channel compressors on the SSL. So the sound is going to be differant even if not noticable. So you are getting a unit with less ratio settings, and you are relying on the fact that this design will hold up and your parts used are going to hold up. i certainly don't want to spend 100hours putting one of these together and have a few parts not work and spend another 100hours trying to figure out where I went wrong. I think the samrt research c2 is , sorry for the pun, a "smart" idea is this is the specific sound i want. I mean it made this progressive track my freind did with soft synths just gel together, yes , like a record should sound. The bass and kick were solid and had that low end crunch with rest of the track all smoothed out. i am not looking for open and tranparent. I want that squashed sound.
so psylicon, what do think about the new blue faced dbx160L. It's a FET design as well. It has 3db less head room than the alan smart c2,not really that far off, but does it sound anything like it? I have seen them used on ebay for $1600. I was even curious about the older dbx 162(the stereo version of the 160vu). they go for about $900. Any just asking cause so many producers love the 160 series comps, new and old.
so the original uses a dbx202 VCA, they hard to find so he changed the design to use a DBX 2150, a 2155, or even a THAT 2150 for the two VCA's. These are the same as the channel compressors on the SSL. So the sound is going to be differant even if not noticable. So you are getting a unit with less ratio settings, and you are relying on the fact that this design will hold up and your parts used are going to hold up. i certainly don't want to spend 100hours putting one of these together and have a few parts not work and spend another 100hours trying to figure out where I went wrong. I think the samrt research c2 is , sorry for the pun, a "smart" idea is this is the specific sound i want. I mean it made this progressive track my freind did with soft synths just gel together, yes , like a record should sound. The bass and kick were solid and had that low end crunch with rest of the track all smoothed out. i am not looking for open and tranparent. I want that squashed sound.
so psylicon, what do think about the new blue faced dbx160L. It's a FET design as well. It has 3db less head room than the alan smart c2,not really that far off, but does it sound anything like it? I have seen them used on ebay for $1600. I was even curious about the older dbx 162(the stereo version of the 160vu). they go for about $900. Any just asking cause so many producers love the 160 series comps, new and old.
Message 28/55 16-Aug-02 @ 05:33 AM - RE: while on the subject of compressors
I would say the 160 wouldn't convince anyone with decent ears if it's an SSL buss compressor you're trying to mimic. But it is an incredible compressor on it's own, and it's great for individual tracks, especially bass. I've never used it on a mix, but it's has more controls than the SSL comp. I've only used original 160's and 160x's, though, so they're all I can attest to.
psylichon
psylichon
Message 29/55 16-Aug-02 @ 07:59 AM - RE: while on the subject of compressors
I have always heard that on bass and live vocals the 160vu is the bomb. But this new blue face is supposed to be able to do the old sound and some newer thigns as well. If anyone has heard one on the bus let me know. I may bring a mix on cd down to a local shop and see how it sounds.
Message 30/55 16-Aug-02 @ 03:10 PM - RE: while on the subject of compressors
yah he describes the difference between the two chips and the dbx202's aren't impossible to get just difficult.
"I've built the compressor with both the 202 and the 2150, and the "sound" dosent seem to be that different, only the 202 may tend to be a little more transparant - but that's not always a good thing in compressors. Btw, DBX chip production is long gone now, but "Thats" are more than decent substitutes. The "That 2155" is a lower-distortion replacement for the 2150, so it should work fine also. If you experience problems getting hold on these chips, try contacting a company that repairs music equipment or tape recorders - they're allmost sure to have them in stock, because they are known to fail in older equipment. "
the 'that' chips are just clones of the dbx...
heck i dunno what the ssl even sounds like now but it still seems like a fun project to build that doesn't involve tubes
"The DBX 202XT VCA can be very hard to get, so I designed a substitution circuit based on the DBX2150 VCA - the one that SSL also uses for their channel compressors. This substitute circuit is based on reverse-engeineering a 202XT VCA - it turned out to consist of ten paralleled 2150's with a common low-impedance buffer for the control inputs. So this is the substitute, but done with only one 2150. "
so its the same chip they use on the ssl channel comps
anyone still game for the loops a/b thingy?
if anything psych can do the real ssl, brett can do his $1500 jobbie and i can do the DIY thing... would be fun etc.
100 hours you think? its not *that* big of a circuit....
jamey
"I've built the compressor with both the 202 and the 2150, and the "sound" dosent seem to be that different, only the 202 may tend to be a little more transparant - but that's not always a good thing in compressors. Btw, DBX chip production is long gone now, but "Thats" are more than decent substitutes. The "That 2155" is a lower-distortion replacement for the 2150, so it should work fine also. If you experience problems getting hold on these chips, try contacting a company that repairs music equipment or tape recorders - they're allmost sure to have them in stock, because they are known to fail in older equipment. "
the 'that' chips are just clones of the dbx...
heck i dunno what the ssl even sounds like now but it still seems like a fun project to build that doesn't involve tubes
"The DBX 202XT VCA can be very hard to get, so I designed a substitution circuit based on the DBX2150 VCA - the one that SSL also uses for their channel compressors. This substitute circuit is based on reverse-engeineering a 202XT VCA - it turned out to consist of ten paralleled 2150's with a common low-impedance buffer for the control inputs. So this is the substitute, but done with only one 2150. "
so its the same chip they use on the ssl channel comps
anyone still game for the loops a/b thingy?
if anything psych can do the real ssl, brett can do his $1500 jobbie and i can do the DIY thing... would be fun etc.
100 hours you think? its not *that* big of a circuit....
jamey
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