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Forums - The lounge
Subject: Destroy All Media
Original Message Date: 05-May-03 @ 11:26 PM - Destroy All Media
check this out:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/05/04/IN164833.DTL
What's your take on all this you guys? Some extremely lucid points here... A good read!
e
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/05/04/IN164833.DTL
What's your take on all this you guys? Some extremely lucid points here... A good read!
e
Message 21/53 08-May-03 @ 07:04 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
"It's something I struggle with daily..."
nah, i really don't think you do..
nah, i really don't think you do..
Message 24/53 08-May-03 @ 08:26 PM Edit: 08-May-03 | 08:32 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Psy, I couldn't agree with you more. The ability to create, the act of creation, is the closest to God one can get. I've always believed that, if one has been endowed with a good singing voice, the ability to play an instrument well, or command a language to the extent of poetry, etc., then one is beholden to a higher power to develop such abilities. These are things that not everyone has the ability or talent to do, regardless of technological advancements, and there is a "cosmic" responsibility to not squander such ability and talent. I don't mean to sound like a religious or new age nutter but this separates those so endowed from the rest of the world. The ability to create something where once there was nothing is, outside of our inherent ability to procreate, as close to "God" as it gets. There is no need of religion for one who creates.
Message 25/53 08-May-03 @ 09:19 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
but even if you suck it's better to create than to watch tv. I'm not sure where god stands on this though.
Message 26/53 08-May-03 @ 10:02 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Hey, Psy... buddhists have this idea of two truths that works well here.
There is the ultimate truth, (in this case, which isn't the buddhist case, just to be clear on that) that here is the moment and (in the context of this discussion) we do not "own" our music because it has come from some higher state at which we are all one and beholden to the gifts of our experience. Does the shamann own wisdom that he channels to the tribe?
And then there's the relative truth of our conditioned existence. We have to pay bills, BUY GEAR (at least at first) and, honestly, the best musicians are hose who are able to devote all of their time to it. 'Cause channeling the Loa takes a certain amount of dedication, and energy. Our Society does not support such behavior or talent in and of itself... so the artist, the medium, must sell his creations in order to earn a living. Must the Shaman starve in order to be useful?
I'm not too sure on where all the different gods stand ono this issue either. But it's clear to me, that they are taking little interest either way and that we'd better find our own way of coping with this particular problem, eh?
e
There is the ultimate truth, (in this case, which isn't the buddhist case, just to be clear on that) that here is the moment and (in the context of this discussion) we do not "own" our music because it has come from some higher state at which we are all one and beholden to the gifts of our experience. Does the shamann own wisdom that he channels to the tribe?
And then there's the relative truth of our conditioned existence. We have to pay bills, BUY GEAR (at least at first) and, honestly, the best musicians are hose who are able to devote all of their time to it. 'Cause channeling the Loa takes a certain amount of dedication, and energy. Our Society does not support such behavior or talent in and of itself... so the artist, the medium, must sell his creations in order to earn a living. Must the Shaman starve in order to be useful?
I'm not too sure on where all the different gods stand ono this issue either. But it's clear to me, that they are taking little interest either way and that we'd better find our own way of coping with this particular problem, eh?
e
Message 27/53 08-May-03 @ 10:07 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Actually I find watching American Idol to be quite rewarding. Remember I created you in my likeness. Watch that new Jim Carrey movie and all will be revealed.
Message 28/53 09-May-03 @ 02:19 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
E,
That quote looks suspiciously familiar. I wonder why?
;-)
A few thoughts if I may. The fact that there exists in this state of our mental, spiritual, physical, creative, and technological evolution any sort of economy at all seems both ludicrous and shameful to me. Humanity as both individual and group have attained a sufficient amount of communication, transportation, and just straight the fuck up knowledge to be able to completely rearrange both the face and the skeleton of what we are. Sadly, greed, fear and selfish ego have not left us all to the point where A)one can consider others' needs beyond one's own, B)some feel the need to have power and control over others. I don't mean advice and guidance, I mean control. C)where society places such rediculously high prioroty on individual whims of a certain few that others must go without some of the most basic essentials for their very lives to continue.
This whole concept of of Have and Have Not is complete and utter bullshit at this point. Most of the Waves, who 'need' so much more don't have any sort of creative outlet beyond the manipulation of others, with whatever tools they find easiest for their personal systems of value, for the purpose of aquiring more. When the fuck is enough enough? They'll never know. These are the types that need to be removed from their places of controlling others and studied, so that these elements and aspects of our personalities can be more fully understood, and integrated into our lives without causing such destruction in each other and ourselves.
For those with no interest in the good of others at all beyond themselves, or those simply lacking the capacity to see the good of others in an altruistic way (Psychotics, Sociopaths/)sychopaths, others with severe mental disorders) they too should be removed from the active element of society and studied. They to should not be treated cruelly, but studied, and the useful aspects of their differences understood, and put to the most productive uses that they can, however with more temperance than they are currently given. When those talents cannot be used, let them be satisfied in simulation. People like those who are fighting so hard to stay in control as we speak, both those with, and without names and faces.
NO HUMAN should EVER have to go without food, shelter, warmth, or health maintenance, regardless of their activities. Why there are people on the street begging for food or a place to sleep without fear of being brutalized, violated, or even disturbed by another human being is cause for shame in us all.
So, what is the major problem preventing the remedy of these problems? Overpopulation. There are still folks having more than one child. There are still people that consider their own selfish needs above the rest of the planet's. "I HAVE to have a baby!" "I HAVE to have another baby!!" A LOT of people lose their identity beyond raising children. Once they are parents, that's what they are.
I proposed a fairly simple solution to this, but nobody would bite because they're all WAY TOO FUCKING SELFISH. Imagine this:
A highly contageous virus that alters womens' bodies so that they only have ONE mentrual cycle every five years. No exception, no cure, nobody has the privelage of escaping this change. NOBODY, regardless of ethnic, spiritual, or financial background. If you miss it, too fucking bad. If you miss it every time, well that's ok too, it's part of life. Families of over ten children would be an impossiblity, and the likelihood of large families would be VERY small. No issues with pro-life or pro-choice. If the baby is not threatening the life of the mother, then she should have it, because there won't be that many humans to go around and if the parents can't support it, you can GUARANTEE that it will be adopted and put into a loving home.
Life will take on a whole new meaning and value. We will HAVE to reorganize our priorities and views with respect to the presence and absence of life. Nobody will be allowed to suffer poverty or ill treatment, because there simply won't be enough of a surplus of humanity to go around. People will HAVE to be much more respectful of themselves and each other, because there won't be so many replacements. We'll still have all of the technology, and knowledge, but we'll be able to invest more time and energy into educating individuals while the population thins. Eventually, it will redevelope another equilibrium, and medical technology will catch up, prolonging our lives to the point where the older problems may again arise, but the likelihood is much smaller.
Where do music and artistic creativity fit into this equation? Well, given our current abilities to produce food, and energy, people should be able to not have to experience a monetary economy, but rather an economy of creativity. Musicians and artists may very well be the peace-keepers and unitors of our society. Obviously our technology will continue to evolve, so that there will be even less of the haves and have nots ideally. In less than seven generations, we should could have this population thinned to a VERY easily manageable, and sustainable population with less than a tenth of the environmental impact we have now (barring nuclear or chemical warfare), as well as off world colonies. By the time the Sun flares up and swallows Mercury and Venus, our decendants should have long left this place, with a message of peace and hope toward any others that come to explore here. However, that will again require much less selfishness than we currently have both as a species, and individuals.
Our music and our art will serve as our identity to ourselves, and others not of this place.
On another note, it should be taken into account that one could also argue that music creates nothing, but rather simply reorganizes and redirects molecular movements with carefully ordered kinetic energy, distorting the normally present chaos. The creation itself is simply an abstract construct of logic and math occuring in the minds of all those capable of perceiving this. Even the origin of this creation is questionable, whether a product of the superego, the ego, the id, or the divine.
Ok, if your head doesn't hurt by now...go make some fuckin music.
Ape
That quote looks suspiciously familiar. I wonder why?
;-)
A few thoughts if I may. The fact that there exists in this state of our mental, spiritual, physical, creative, and technological evolution any sort of economy at all seems both ludicrous and shameful to me. Humanity as both individual and group have attained a sufficient amount of communication, transportation, and just straight the fuck up knowledge to be able to completely rearrange both the face and the skeleton of what we are. Sadly, greed, fear and selfish ego have not left us all to the point where A)one can consider others' needs beyond one's own, B)some feel the need to have power and control over others. I don't mean advice and guidance, I mean control. C)where society places such rediculously high prioroty on individual whims of a certain few that others must go without some of the most basic essentials for their very lives to continue.
This whole concept of of Have and Have Not is complete and utter bullshit at this point. Most of the Waves, who 'need' so much more don't have any sort of creative outlet beyond the manipulation of others, with whatever tools they find easiest for their personal systems of value, for the purpose of aquiring more. When the fuck is enough enough? They'll never know. These are the types that need to be removed from their places of controlling others and studied, so that these elements and aspects of our personalities can be more fully understood, and integrated into our lives without causing such destruction in each other and ourselves.
For those with no interest in the good of others at all beyond themselves, or those simply lacking the capacity to see the good of others in an altruistic way (Psychotics, Sociopaths/)sychopaths, others with severe mental disorders) they too should be removed from the active element of society and studied. They to should not be treated cruelly, but studied, and the useful aspects of their differences understood, and put to the most productive uses that they can, however with more temperance than they are currently given. When those talents cannot be used, let them be satisfied in simulation. People like those who are fighting so hard to stay in control as we speak, both those with, and without names and faces.
NO HUMAN should EVER have to go without food, shelter, warmth, or health maintenance, regardless of their activities. Why there are people on the street begging for food or a place to sleep without fear of being brutalized, violated, or even disturbed by another human being is cause for shame in us all.
So, what is the major problem preventing the remedy of these problems? Overpopulation. There are still folks having more than one child. There are still people that consider their own selfish needs above the rest of the planet's. "I HAVE to have a baby!" "I HAVE to have another baby!!" A LOT of people lose their identity beyond raising children. Once they are parents, that's what they are.
I proposed a fairly simple solution to this, but nobody would bite because they're all WAY TOO FUCKING SELFISH. Imagine this:
A highly contageous virus that alters womens' bodies so that they only have ONE mentrual cycle every five years. No exception, no cure, nobody has the privelage of escaping this change. NOBODY, regardless of ethnic, spiritual, or financial background. If you miss it, too fucking bad. If you miss it every time, well that's ok too, it's part of life. Families of over ten children would be an impossiblity, and the likelihood of large families would be VERY small. No issues with pro-life or pro-choice. If the baby is not threatening the life of the mother, then she should have it, because there won't be that many humans to go around and if the parents can't support it, you can GUARANTEE that it will be adopted and put into a loving home.
Life will take on a whole new meaning and value. We will HAVE to reorganize our priorities and views with respect to the presence and absence of life. Nobody will be allowed to suffer poverty or ill treatment, because there simply won't be enough of a surplus of humanity to go around. People will HAVE to be much more respectful of themselves and each other, because there won't be so many replacements. We'll still have all of the technology, and knowledge, but we'll be able to invest more time and energy into educating individuals while the population thins. Eventually, it will redevelope another equilibrium, and medical technology will catch up, prolonging our lives to the point where the older problems may again arise, but the likelihood is much smaller.
Where do music and artistic creativity fit into this equation? Well, given our current abilities to produce food, and energy, people should be able to not have to experience a monetary economy, but rather an economy of creativity. Musicians and artists may very well be the peace-keepers and unitors of our society. Obviously our technology will continue to evolve, so that there will be even less of the haves and have nots ideally. In less than seven generations, we should could have this population thinned to a VERY easily manageable, and sustainable population with less than a tenth of the environmental impact we have now (barring nuclear or chemical warfare), as well as off world colonies. By the time the Sun flares up and swallows Mercury and Venus, our decendants should have long left this place, with a message of peace and hope toward any others that come to explore here. However, that will again require much less selfishness than we currently have both as a species, and individuals.
Our music and our art will serve as our identity to ourselves, and others not of this place.
On another note, it should be taken into account that one could also argue that music creates nothing, but rather simply reorganizes and redirects molecular movements with carefully ordered kinetic energy, distorting the normally present chaos. The creation itself is simply an abstract construct of logic and math occuring in the minds of all those capable of perceiving this. Even the origin of this creation is questionable, whether a product of the superego, the ego, the id, or the divine.
Ok, if your head doesn't hurt by now...go make some fuckin music.
Ape
Message 29/53 09-May-03 @ 02:44 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Back to the mass media, and the downfall of commerciality for a moment: fuck the majors. Small independant releases are very cool on vinyl, but this industry has become bloated beyond all reason. I think that as long as we have to have economy, there should be more acceptance and encouragement of smaller more obscure expressions. An example: luthiers, particularly bass luthiers. One look at that scene will show you that it's not at all about having what everybody else has, but rather having what everybody else does NOT have. A lot of bassists are purists, and it has become very much a time of conisseurs of tone, and class in expression. Sure there are still loads of new P-basses being sold too, but when one achieves a certain level of mastery in the instrument, often they will have one custom made for them, or even several. Not too many synth manufacturers doing that. I guess a custom modular system sorta counts, but I don't see nearly as many cats out there with custom modulars onstage as I do bassists with high end or custom instruments.
I also don't see as much encouragement to have custom instrumentation in the electronic scene as I do in bassists. Sure, everybody wants the baddest new...but typically from a large manufacturer and it's typically cheap. It would be really nice to see an evolution in that, where cats aren't playing with loads of so-so boxes, but rather just a few small, handmade/individualized pieces, giving them much more distinct and subtle character in their sound. That combined with an effort to create awareness and promote individuality in the taste of the consumer would be steps in the direction I'd certainly like to se things move in, especially where live performance is concerned. Kinda like what the Jazz scene used to be. Why keep it all low-brow?
Ape
I also don't see as much encouragement to have custom instrumentation in the electronic scene as I do in bassists. Sure, everybody wants the baddest new...but typically from a large manufacturer and it's typically cheap. It would be really nice to see an evolution in that, where cats aren't playing with loads of so-so boxes, but rather just a few small, handmade/individualized pieces, giving them much more distinct and subtle character in their sound. That combined with an effort to create awareness and promote individuality in the taste of the consumer would be steps in the direction I'd certainly like to se things move in, especially where live performance is concerned. Kinda like what the Jazz scene used to be. Why keep it all low-brow?
Ape
Message 30/53 09-May-03 @ 02:46 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
..and fuck any individual that calls themself God with the idea of being anything apart from anything or anybody else.
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