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Forums - The lounge
Subject: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
Original Message Date: 13-Jun-03 @ 08:36 AM Edit: 13-Jun-03 | 09:30 AM - Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
Anyone who's been here awhile knows my views on people bragging about using warez and copies or looking for such on K's site but, if he's not averse to an academic discussion on the matter I'd like to pose something of a question.
Some time ago a friend of mine mentioned that his father, a very successful business man, would "acquire" software and use it over a period of months, sometimes up to a year, to determine if it was stable and truly useful to him in his business. After a period of time he would make a decision and either move on to evaluate another piece of software or call the software company and request a license and documentation. Usually he would get some sort of a discount since he didn't need a packaged product. Also, he was never challenged regarding his somewhat unusual request. Some of the things my friend attributed to his father's financial success was honesty, integrity and an unwillingness to invest money in anything that didn't work or contribute to his business.
Considering how much software for professional use costs I have a hard time being critical of this approach. In addition, the current trend of releasing software that hasn't been thoroughly beta tested has softened my attitude (I'm reminded of my difficulties when Cubase VST32 was released). The key, obviously, is in the purchase of software that one intends on keeping after a thorough evaluation. If such purchases are not made then the software determined to be truly useful will go away and the user may be forced to turn to an inferior product, all becuase of not paying up after evaluation. The flip side is that software companies that choose to foist beta testing onto paying customers would be forced to reevaluate such practice or go out of business. So, what say the good folk of DT?
I know this may sound cheesy but I'd rather this thread not continue until K gives it his blessing (hopefully he'll see it) as an academic discussion especially considering his desire to sell product through DT. And please don't get on me about even bringing the subject up if I have doubts regarding its propriety. I bring it up because I respect the differing opinions here and believe it to be especially relevent considering the proliferation of file sharing and the aforementioned trend in the software industry. If K deems it inappropriate I would hope he simply deletes the post. Thanks.
Some time ago a friend of mine mentioned that his father, a very successful business man, would "acquire" software and use it over a period of months, sometimes up to a year, to determine if it was stable and truly useful to him in his business. After a period of time he would make a decision and either move on to evaluate another piece of software or call the software company and request a license and documentation. Usually he would get some sort of a discount since he didn't need a packaged product. Also, he was never challenged regarding his somewhat unusual request. Some of the things my friend attributed to his father's financial success was honesty, integrity and an unwillingness to invest money in anything that didn't work or contribute to his business.
Considering how much software for professional use costs I have a hard time being critical of this approach. In addition, the current trend of releasing software that hasn't been thoroughly beta tested has softened my attitude (I'm reminded of my difficulties when Cubase VST32 was released). The key, obviously, is in the purchase of software that one intends on keeping after a thorough evaluation. If such purchases are not made then the software determined to be truly useful will go away and the user may be forced to turn to an inferior product, all becuase of not paying up after evaluation. The flip side is that software companies that choose to foist beta testing onto paying customers would be forced to reevaluate such practice or go out of business. So, what say the good folk of DT?
I know this may sound cheesy but I'd rather this thread not continue until K gives it his blessing (hopefully he'll see it) as an academic discussion especially considering his desire to sell product through DT. And please don't get on me about even bringing the subject up if I have doubts regarding its propriety. I bring it up because I respect the differing opinions here and believe it to be especially relevent considering the proliferation of file sharing and the aforementioned trend in the software industry. If K deems it inappropriate I would hope he simply deletes the post. Thanks.
Message 21/35 21-Jun-03 @ 03:17 AM - RE: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
Pict, seems like a long time since I've seen your handle. I read the article. That's a pretty harsh indictment. What do you do, pay for the license and use the more stable crack? That's a sad irony. Or would that be a paradox???
Message 22/35 21-Jun-03 @ 03:26 AM - RE: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
Oh, K, I was reading the posts at the Steinberg site and all I seemed to read about were "poofs". I've been using Cubase for ten years now but this really makes me want to migrate if it comes time to upgrade.
Message 23/35 21-Jun-03 @ 04:32 AM - RE: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
Ive never had a poof, mick
the waves thing..heh
the waves thing..heh
Message 24/35 21-Jun-03 @ 04:46 AM - RE: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
Copy "never had a poof".
Perhaps I should have said, "Naive guy gone bad."
Perhaps I should have said, "Naive guy gone bad."
Message 25/35 23-Jun-03 @ 11:53 AM - RE: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
exactly - look at all the users WITH the dreaded SX 'poof' bug, (apparently it even was 'poofing' at the trade show repeatedly according to the cubase forum discussion)... so if I had to buy SX, I'd pay up, and keep the box on the shelf and
use the stable copy which I KNEW 100% worked.
Factualy, alot of people do that anyways, they have the box sitting on the shelf un-used cos they dont like to run a dongle. same with Logic users too & definately the same with waves users as referred to above as a famous example.
Why would I bother f*cking about HOPING that a legal 'copy', (which is all they are after all, just 'copies'), would work, when I know that so-called illegal copy works for sure??
Now therefore, sure, you give Steiny the cash, and what you get is... nothing back, except knowing you contributed to the writers/company... but what they offer isnt much use outside of the core programme from which someone anonymous can hack a stable version which needs no dongle, which paid-up users can then run...Their support is worth jack shite, and updates are useless as they mostly are just bugged again all over, and round you go.
If you follow 'the law', lets say you build a new PC, and setup SX/cubase on that.... illegal! - you cannot do multiple installs of the s/w according to your licence as far as I know.
The problem with this whole industry is they can't figure out a way to retail their goods properly to stop crack users. When the subject comes up on forums, it always descends into a mire of intellectualising about the 'rights & wrongs' of cracked s/w, and no-one ever has a solution.
I myself beleive the s/w now is so expensive compared to the hardware you are running it on, it has totaly discounted all advantages of the PC industry... if the hardware corps can survive with ever decreasing profits, why not the s/w?...
So now your basic main sequencer app might cost the same as the hardware parts for your PC, then add some synth & sampler and drum s/w, and editor mastering s/w and the cost has doubled more that the actual PC itself. Perhaps psychologicaly this dissuades people from paying?
i dunno... but there has to be a better way than expecting that everyone can and will stump up a grand or more for the s/w they need all in one go.
I myself advocate ownership 'clubs' which users can join and pay regular installments, topping up their s/w list as and when they need stuff. But that'd mean revamping the sales end for music s/w and licencing independant pc music s/w techs as sort of 'service-agents' etc and not relying 100% on traditional shops.
use the stable copy which I KNEW 100% worked.
Factualy, alot of people do that anyways, they have the box sitting on the shelf un-used cos they dont like to run a dongle. same with Logic users too & definately the same with waves users as referred to above as a famous example.
Why would I bother f*cking about HOPING that a legal 'copy', (which is all they are after all, just 'copies'), would work, when I know that so-called illegal copy works for sure??
Now therefore, sure, you give Steiny the cash, and what you get is... nothing back, except knowing you contributed to the writers/company... but what they offer isnt much use outside of the core programme from which someone anonymous can hack a stable version which needs no dongle, which paid-up users can then run...Their support is worth jack shite, and updates are useless as they mostly are just bugged again all over, and round you go.
If you follow 'the law', lets say you build a new PC, and setup SX/cubase on that.... illegal! - you cannot do multiple installs of the s/w according to your licence as far as I know.
The problem with this whole industry is they can't figure out a way to retail their goods properly to stop crack users. When the subject comes up on forums, it always descends into a mire of intellectualising about the 'rights & wrongs' of cracked s/w, and no-one ever has a solution.
I myself beleive the s/w now is so expensive compared to the hardware you are running it on, it has totaly discounted all advantages of the PC industry... if the hardware corps can survive with ever decreasing profits, why not the s/w?...
So now your basic main sequencer app might cost the same as the hardware parts for your PC, then add some synth & sampler and drum s/w, and editor mastering s/w and the cost has doubled more that the actual PC itself. Perhaps psychologicaly this dissuades people from paying?
i dunno... but there has to be a better way than expecting that everyone can and will stump up a grand or more for the s/w they need all in one go.
I myself advocate ownership 'clubs' which users can join and pay regular installments, topping up their s/w list as and when they need stuff. But that'd mean revamping the sales end for music s/w and licencing independant pc music s/w techs as sort of 'service-agents' etc and not relying 100% on traditional shops.
Message 26/35 26-Jun-03 @ 11:57 AM - RE: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~shane/stasj/div_bilder/49.html
Message 27/35 27-Jun-03 @ 07:42 AM - RE: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
I advocate buying $2 software suites.
Message 28/35 27-Jun-03 @ 03:38 PM - RE: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
it aint just software programmers that released unfinshed products- Akai certainly spring to mind....
Greg
Greg
Message 29/35 27-Jun-03 @ 04:33 PM Edit: 29-Jun-03 | 11:47 AM - RE: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
That's a good point, I've read more than one review about a piece of hardware that was missing some advertised feature or has a major defect. The Yamaha Loop Factory modules come to mind. Even in hardware products, its seems to end up being the softare. WTF is it about software that creates such slack?
Message 30/35 27-Jun-03 @ 06:09 PM - RE: Software piracy: good guy gone bad?
damn. heavy shit!
dunno...sometimes I think that the machines we create truly are out of control..like...we're not sophisticated enough to REALLY do them correctly...same with SW...its like...we wandered into this room fantasia like and just started swingin the wand
dunno...sometimes I think that the machines we create truly are out of control..like...we're not sophisticated enough to REALLY do them correctly...same with SW...its like...we wandered into this room fantasia like and just started swingin the wand
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