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Forums - Music techology
Subject: non-sub bass for sub bass
Original Message Date: 17-Feb-04 @ 04:49 AM - non-sub bass for sub bass
Naw it's simple- what do you guys do add an "audible" tone to your standard heavy air-pushing, subby jungle sinewave type bassline?
I have an existing subbass patch that you can *feel* very well on a well-powered system but I want people w/ lesser systems/headphones/laptop speakers to be able to *hear* it. It's also a little muddy in the mix but I think I need to roll-off the real low part that's just wasting energy (around 60-70 kHz?)
I know what I'd do but I'd like other opinions/solutions, please.
Message 22/41 23-May-07 @ 06:46 PM - RE: non-sub bass for sub bass
Anyway, so i've been toying with the Tx81z and getting some hefty bass. Now, my question is: If it sounds low when i'm in front of the speakers but all the walls seem about to crumble when i get out of the room, does that means it's too much or is this inherent to sub-bass ?
I have the feeling this is a stupid question, let's hit submit then
Message 23/41 24-May-07 @ 10:54 AM - RE: non-sub bass for sub bass
but beware if you have a dog or a cat-door installed 
Message 24/41 24-May-07 @ 11:10 AM - RE: non-sub bass for sub bass
allegedly, the best place to hear the bass is in the corner, although in my room its exactly in the center (its about 7 meters long). though i cant guarantee if what i'm hearing there is right. maybe someone else can confirm?
Message 25/41 25-May-07 @ 02:45 PM - RE: non-sub bass for sub bass
thats even more reflections adding together, it is never accurate as bass bounces of of wall one
and wall 2 and the floor or celling they all start to add together and create the big subby sound
that is great when standing in the corner, different in the middle of room and different 1 metre in
front of your speakers(which is where criticall judgement should be done), then you got standing
waves ie notes/freq's that are the height/ length of your room, they r the ones that make one or
two notes louder than the rest put it all together and comb filtering takes place which i believe
makes some notes quieter as well, its amazing we get anything done at all isnt it?
Malk
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -
Message 26/41 01-Jun-07 @ 04:01 AM - RE: non-sub bass for sub bass
Would some of that: , stuff help ?
Message 27/41 01-Jun-07 @ 01:00 PM - RE: non-sub bass for sub bass
this is not my feild, but in essense, there's 2 parts beyond initial room dimensions: absorbsion and diffusion, you want to try to absorb nasty longer (bass-ier) waves and diffuse mid/top end
if you clap in a concrete room, that fluttery reflection you get is what needs to be diffused, if you remove all the top end the room sounds dull, so typicaly people will add tons of soft 'soundproofing', which just reduces drasticaly all the top end.. the room sounds muffled dead and 'cosy', but inevitably one then starts to compensate by adding more treble to mixes
this is an intersting pdf on bbc diffuser construction development from back in the day:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1995-01.pdf
and this is the report which is about hpow they arrived at the actual ratio of blocks
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1990-15.pdf
that tpe of diffuser is being marketted here for example by a company:
http://www.wsdg.com/resources/resour.php?SL=ta&BL=3
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also this may be useful
http://www.rpginc.com/cgi-bin/byteserver.pl/news/library/PS_AcD.pdf
mebbe you could make some of the corner traps... the are fixed to the wall rather than self contained in a frame, so the wedges of rockwool are cut so as they can be wedged into the corner in a vertical stack... a frame of baton wood is added fixed to the wall floor and ceiling to make a surround to which one can then attach a covering fabric and which also acts to hold the wedgies in place.
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I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 28/41 01-Jun-07 @ 01:11 PM - RE: non-sub bass for sub bass
btw, you could try an experiment which wouldnt cost anything, if you could borrow a couple of futon mattresses, (not crappy consumer foam filled ones but proper japanese style cotton filled ones), roll them up into 2 sausages and secure these 'sausages in shape with washing-line cord or some other thin rope tied around them in a spiral or however to secure them into 2 nicely packed rolled sausages, then just push one sausage into each corner verticaly, perhaps the front 2 corners to the left/right of where you work in front of the monitor position.... you can raise their position by putting them on top of some milk crates or something, admittedly making them stand up witjou securing permenently might require you lean a pole into each one from the floor just to temporarily prop them up verticaly
the idea is just to add a temp' bass trap type absorber to the 2 corners to see what it sounds like, the futons will absorb nicely cos they are filled with packed cottom wadding... at least you ghet an idea, and the futons can be un-wrapped and returned to their owners after a day of testing. It can work tho anyways if you get a few cheap s/h futon mattresses.. it doesnt matter of they are manky cos you aint sleeping on them and they can be covered with a nice cleaner fabric if needs be
you could at a push even try it with two normal matresses stood verticaly in each corner - just to see how it changes things
your mixes sound ok tho, there is alot of low bottom on them but it doesnt overload in my room with my speakers (small nearfields tho) perhaps also start to use some low shelving on things in the mix to roll off below 80, 60, 40hz etc for some items to stop build up of the bottom end by multiplication of many low end artefacts which arent required.. like say if you are mixing 4 harmony BV's in a chorus in a typical RnB tune, you dont need any info below 60hz, so get rid of it pre-compression (if used)
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I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 29/41 01-Jun-07 @ 02:20 PM - RE: non-sub bass for sub bass
But one thing, on my mixer I have these switches for every channel, just below EQ that the manual states to be a low cut filter 75Hz (-18 dB/oct), should this be engaged on all basy material (kick, bass etc..) ? Is this what your saying ? Cause when I do, It loses much energy in the low end I feel.
Message 30/41 01-Jun-07 @ 04:24 PM - RE: non-sub bass for sub bass
oh yeah something else, bass-y material going thru any reverb type fx? could muddy things up alot - and sounds with very subtle low end content ging thru comps? if that low end isnt needed, dump it with a hi-pass or lo-shelf before the comp
anyways, lets see the room itself
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
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