 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - The lounge
Subject: explain this
Original Message Date: 02-Sep-05 @ 08:25 AM - explain this
It's not like one of those thrid world countries is it
I only mention it cos the p[rice of oil is going through the roof and once systems break down the sad truth - if you havn't got a gun you are going to loose. Would the liberals please realise they are a product of peace
Meanwhile - the argument over evolution/abortion RAGES
I only mention it cos the p[rice of oil is going through the roof and once systems break down the sad truth - if you havn't got a gun you are going to loose. Would the liberals please realise they are a product of peace
Meanwhile - the argument over evolution/abortion RAGES
Message 31/36 07-Sep-05 @ 09:43 PM - RE: explain this
sorry milan, but a constant reliance on government intervention simply doesnt work.
we already have a very socialist system. its just disguised well.
I hear you though...privatization scares me too as humans arent to be trusted and it seems the exploitation would grow exponentially.
not sure either way, really. right now the govt is a joke, so ANY option is worth trying imo
we already have a very socialist system. its just disguised well.
I hear you though...privatization scares me too as humans arent to be trusted and it seems the exploitation would grow exponentially.
not sure either way, really. right now the govt is a joke, so ANY option is worth trying imo
Message 32/36 07-Sep-05 @ 10:01 PM - RE: explain this
interesting you should say that ,since that kind of system has been functioning pretty well (and still does) in several european countries. it is being fucked up only now due to private sector pressure and general greed trend, but not everywhere.
fuck me if i'd rather have to sign up for private "social" insurance. i mean, how many scandals were there in the us about not-ticking-the-right-checkbox, so sorry your cancer is not covered, and neither is food or rescue in case of hurricanes.
if you are talking about a goverment paid private company for just such cases, yes that might be worth since you have who is liable to take all the blame in the end and not covered by the political immunity or whatever. still... someone has to PAY for that, and i think main moneymakers are being left off the hook more and more these days.
fuck me if i'd rather have to sign up for private "social" insurance. i mean, how many scandals were there in the us about not-ticking-the-right-checkbox, so sorry your cancer is not covered, and neither is food or rescue in case of hurricanes.
if you are talking about a goverment paid private company for just such cases, yes that might be worth since you have who is liable to take all the blame in the end and not covered by the political immunity or whatever. still... someone has to PAY for that, and i think main moneymakers are being left off the hook more and more these days.
Message 33/36 09-Sep-05 @ 09:10 AM - RE: explain this
tis true, greed and gluttony seem to prevail when people are let free. laissez faire indeed, eh?
but...still though, here in the states, the govt is fucking HUGE. so damn big its just plain disgusting, and it seems like theres little strands of fed in EVERYTHING
yes, accountability is PRIME. Too often forgot these days, especially when the corpos are so closely tied with the politicos
hell, give me a true socialist state, not a welfare state, where everyone contributes, but no one is left behind...Id dive right in. seems like a good idea
on paper.
been readin a bit o' libertarian perspective lately, some leaning toward anarchism (NOT the way the public views it, just abolished or at least massively minimized central govt) and while some makes sense (interference often has negative results even when positive intentioned) again it only seems to work on paper.
with current mindsets, at least in the states, it seems that people would just run rampant, gaining all they could at whofuckincares who else's expense, no?
but thats how it is right now anyway!
I tried to write to one of these libertarian writers...and of course got no fucking response, so screw em.
anyway, i stopped claiming I understand anything a while back
but...still though, here in the states, the govt is fucking HUGE. so damn big its just plain disgusting, and it seems like theres little strands of fed in EVERYTHING
yes, accountability is PRIME. Too often forgot these days, especially when the corpos are so closely tied with the politicos
hell, give me a true socialist state, not a welfare state, where everyone contributes, but no one is left behind...Id dive right in. seems like a good idea
on paper.
been readin a bit o' libertarian perspective lately, some leaning toward anarchism (NOT the way the public views it, just abolished or at least massively minimized central govt) and while some makes sense (interference often has negative results even when positive intentioned) again it only seems to work on paper.
with current mindsets, at least in the states, it seems that people would just run rampant, gaining all they could at whofuckincares who else's expense, no?
but thats how it is right now anyway!
I tried to write to one of these libertarian writers...and of course got no fucking response, so screw em.
anyway, i stopped claiming I understand anything a while back
Message 34/36 14-Sep-05 @ 12:08 PM - RE: explain this
Overkill: Feared Blackwater Mercenaries Deploy in New Orleans
by Jeremy Scahill and Daniela Crespo
NEW ORLEANS -- Heavily armed paramilitary mercenaries from the Blackwater private security firm, infamous for their work in Iraq, are openly patrolling the streets of New Orleans. Some of the mercenaries say they have been "deputized" by the Louisiana governor; indeed some are wearing gold Louisiana state law enforcement badges on their chests and Blackwater photo identification cards on their arms. They say they are on contract with the Department of Homeland Security and have been given the authority to use lethal force. Several mercenaries we spoke with said they had served in Iraq on the personal security details of the former head of the US occupation, L. Paul Bremer and the former US ambassador to Iraq, John Negroponte.
http://www.blackwaterusa.com/
" Blackwater USA is comprised of five companies; Blackwater Training Center, Blackwater Target Systems, Blackwater Security Consulting, Blackwater Canine, and Blackwater Air (AWS). We have established a global presence and provide training and tactical solutions for the 21st century.
Our clients include federal law enforcement agencies, the Department of Defense, Department of State, and Department of Transportation, local and state entities from around the country, multi-national corporations, and friendly nations from all over the globe.
We customize and execute solutions for our clients to help keep them at the level of readiness required to meet today's law enforcement, homeland security, and defense challenges.
Any and all defense services supplied to foreign nationals will only be pursuant to proper authorization by the Department of State.
Come to Blackwater, where the professionals train."
"This is a totally new thing to have guys like us working CONUS (Continental United States)," a heavily armed Blackwater mercenary told us as we stood on Bourbon Street in the French Quarter. "We're much better equipped to deal with the situation in Iraq."
Blackwater mercenaries are some of the most feared professional killers in the world and they are accustomed to operating without worry of legal consequences. Their presence on the streets of New Orleans should be a cause for serious concern for the remaining residents of the city and raises alarming questions about why the government would allow men trained to kill with impunity in places like Iraq and Afghanistan to operate here. Some of the men now patrolling the streets of New Orleans returned from Iraq as recently as 2 weeks ago.
What is most disturbing is the claim of several Blackwater mercenaries we spoke with that they are here under contract from the federal and Louisiana state governments.
Blackwater is one of the leading private "security" firms servicing the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. It has several US government contracts and has provided security for many senior US diplomats, foreign dignitaries and corporations. The company rose to international prominence after 4 of its men were killed in Fallujah and two of their charred bodies were hung from a bridge in March 2004. Those killings sparked the massive US retaliation against the civilian population of Fallujah that resulted in scores of deaths and tens of thousands of refugees.
As the threat of forced evictions now looms in New Orleans and the city confiscates even legally registered weapons from civilians, the private mercenaries of Blackwater patrol the streets openly wielding M-16s and other assault weapons. This despite Police Commissioner Eddie Compass' claim that "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons."
Officially, Blackwater says it forces are in New Orleans to "join the Hurricane Relief Effort." A statement on the company's website, dated September 1, advertises airlift services, security services and crowd control. The company, according to news reports, has since begun taking private contracts to guard hotels, businesses and other properties. But what has not been publicly acknowledged is the claim, made to us by 2 Blackwater mercenaries, that they are actually engaged in general law enforcement activities including "securing neighborhoods" and "confronting criminals."
That raises a key question: under what authority are Blackwater's men operating? A spokesperson for the Homeland Security Department, Russ Knocke, told the Washington Post he knows of no federal plans to hire Blackwater or other private security. "We believe we've got the right mix of personnel in law enforcement for the federal government to meet the demands of public safety." he said.
But in an hour-long conversation with several Blackwater mercenaries, we heard a different story. The men we spoke with said they are indeed on contract with the Department of Homeland Security and the Louisiana governor's office and that some of them are sleeping in camps organized by Homeland Security in New Orleans and Baton Rouge. One of them wore a gold Louisiana state law enforcement badge and said he had been "deputized" by the governor. They told us they not only had authority to make arrests but also to use lethal force. We encountered the Blackwater forces as we walked through the streets of the largely deserted French Quarter. We were talking with 2 New York Police officers when an unmarked car without license plates sped up next to us and stopped. Inside were 3 men, dressed in khaki uniforms, flak jackets and wielding automatic weapons. "Y'all know where the Blackwater guys are?" they asked. One of the police officers responded, "There are a bunch of them around here," and pointed down the road.
"Blackwater?" we asked. "The guys who are in Iraq?"
"Yeah," said the officer. "They're all over the place."
A short while later, as we continued down Bourbon Street, we ran into the men from the car. They wore Blackwater ID badges on their arms.
"When they told me New Orleans, I said, 'What country is that in?,'" said one of the Blackwater men. He was wearing his company ID around his neck in a carrying case with the phrase "Operation Iraqi Freedom" printed on it. After bragging about how he drives around Iraq in a "State Department issued level 5, explosion proof BMW," he said he was "just trying to get back to Kirkuk (in the north of Iraq) where the real action is." Later we overheard him on his cell phone complaining that Blackwater was only paying $350 a day plus per diem. That is much less than the men make serving in more dangerous conditions in Iraq. Two men we spoke with said they plan on returning to Iraq in October. But, as one mercenary said, they've been told they could be in New Orleans for up to 6 months. "This is a trend," he told us. "You're going to see a lot more guys like us in these situations."
If Blackwater's reputation and record in Iraq are any indication of the kind of "services" the company offers, the people of New Orleans have much to fear.
by Jeremy Scahill and Daniela Crespo
NEW ORLEANS -- Heavily armed paramilitary mercenaries from the Blackwater private security firm, infamous for their work in Iraq, are openly patrolling the streets of New Orleans. Some of the mercenaries say they have been "deputized" by the Louisiana governor; indeed some are wearing gold Louisiana state law enforcement badges on their chests and Blackwater photo identification cards on their arms. They say they are on contract with the Department of Homeland Security and have been given the authority to use lethal force. Several mercenaries we spoke with said they had served in Iraq on the personal security details of the former head of the US occupation, L. Paul Bremer and the former US ambassador to Iraq, John Negroponte.
http://www.blackwaterusa.com/
" Blackwater USA is comprised of five companies; Blackwater Training Center, Blackwater Target Systems, Blackwater Security Consulting, Blackwater Canine, and Blackwater Air (AWS). We have established a global presence and provide training and tactical solutions for the 21st century.
Our clients include federal law enforcement agencies, the Department of Defense, Department of State, and Department of Transportation, local and state entities from around the country, multi-national corporations, and friendly nations from all over the globe.
We customize and execute solutions for our clients to help keep them at the level of readiness required to meet today's law enforcement, homeland security, and defense challenges.
Any and all defense services supplied to foreign nationals will only be pursuant to proper authorization by the Department of State.
Come to Blackwater, where the professionals train."
"This is a totally new thing to have guys like us working CONUS (Continental United States)," a heavily armed Blackwater mercenary told us as we stood on Bourbon Street in the French Quarter. "We're much better equipped to deal with the situation in Iraq."
Blackwater mercenaries are some of the most feared professional killers in the world and they are accustomed to operating without worry of legal consequences. Their presence on the streets of New Orleans should be a cause for serious concern for the remaining residents of the city and raises alarming questions about why the government would allow men trained to kill with impunity in places like Iraq and Afghanistan to operate here. Some of the men now patrolling the streets of New Orleans returned from Iraq as recently as 2 weeks ago.
What is most disturbing is the claim of several Blackwater mercenaries we spoke with that they are here under contract from the federal and Louisiana state governments.
Blackwater is one of the leading private "security" firms servicing the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. It has several US government contracts and has provided security for many senior US diplomats, foreign dignitaries and corporations. The company rose to international prominence after 4 of its men were killed in Fallujah and two of their charred bodies were hung from a bridge in March 2004. Those killings sparked the massive US retaliation against the civilian population of Fallujah that resulted in scores of deaths and tens of thousands of refugees.
As the threat of forced evictions now looms in New Orleans and the city confiscates even legally registered weapons from civilians, the private mercenaries of Blackwater patrol the streets openly wielding M-16s and other assault weapons. This despite Police Commissioner Eddie Compass' claim that "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons."
Officially, Blackwater says it forces are in New Orleans to "join the Hurricane Relief Effort." A statement on the company's website, dated September 1, advertises airlift services, security services and crowd control. The company, according to news reports, has since begun taking private contracts to guard hotels, businesses and other properties. But what has not been publicly acknowledged is the claim, made to us by 2 Blackwater mercenaries, that they are actually engaged in general law enforcement activities including "securing neighborhoods" and "confronting criminals."
That raises a key question: under what authority are Blackwater's men operating? A spokesperson for the Homeland Security Department, Russ Knocke, told the Washington Post he knows of no federal plans to hire Blackwater or other private security. "We believe we've got the right mix of personnel in law enforcement for the federal government to meet the demands of public safety." he said.
But in an hour-long conversation with several Blackwater mercenaries, we heard a different story. The men we spoke with said they are indeed on contract with the Department of Homeland Security and the Louisiana governor's office and that some of them are sleeping in camps organized by Homeland Security in New Orleans and Baton Rouge. One of them wore a gold Louisiana state law enforcement badge and said he had been "deputized" by the governor. They told us they not only had authority to make arrests but also to use lethal force. We encountered the Blackwater forces as we walked through the streets of the largely deserted French Quarter. We were talking with 2 New York Police officers when an unmarked car without license plates sped up next to us and stopped. Inside were 3 men, dressed in khaki uniforms, flak jackets and wielding automatic weapons. "Y'all know where the Blackwater guys are?" they asked. One of the police officers responded, "There are a bunch of them around here," and pointed down the road.
"Blackwater?" we asked. "The guys who are in Iraq?"
"Yeah," said the officer. "They're all over the place."
A short while later, as we continued down Bourbon Street, we ran into the men from the car. They wore Blackwater ID badges on their arms.
"When they told me New Orleans, I said, 'What country is that in?,'" said one of the Blackwater men. He was wearing his company ID around his neck in a carrying case with the phrase "Operation Iraqi Freedom" printed on it. After bragging about how he drives around Iraq in a "State Department issued level 5, explosion proof BMW," he said he was "just trying to get back to Kirkuk (in the north of Iraq) where the real action is." Later we overheard him on his cell phone complaining that Blackwater was only paying $350 a day plus per diem. That is much less than the men make serving in more dangerous conditions in Iraq. Two men we spoke with said they plan on returning to Iraq in October. But, as one mercenary said, they've been told they could be in New Orleans for up to 6 months. "This is a trend," he told us. "You're going to see a lot more guys like us in these situations."
If Blackwater's reputation and record in Iraq are any indication of the kind of "services" the company offers, the people of New Orleans have much to fear.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 36/36 14-Sep-05 @ 10:12 PM - RE: explain this
heh. milan. I knew you would say that
what I dont see is...why is it an issue? unless something bad happens? I mean...the police there seem overwhelmed, and from the looks of it lawlessness is quite common.
perhaps these guys are just protecting innocent folks?
yes, privatization. the problem though is accountability. there needs to be a higher than standard level of it. doesnt exist for govt operations, but maybe for private?
I just dont see how the government would be any better in these situations? sometimes people assume that because it is "the government" right will be done, but that has proven time and again not to be the case. same goes for private entities as well, obviously, but at least those private entities are held accountable more stringently?
what I dont see is...why is it an issue? unless something bad happens? I mean...the police there seem overwhelmed, and from the looks of it lawlessness is quite common.
perhaps these guys are just protecting innocent folks?
yes, privatization. the problem though is accountability. there needs to be a higher than standard level of it. doesnt exist for govt operations, but maybe for private?
I just dont see how the government would be any better in these situations? sometimes people assume that because it is "the government" right will be done, but that has proven time and again not to be the case. same goes for private entities as well, obviously, but at least those private entities are held accountable more stringently?
Pages: 1 2 3 4
There are 36 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
