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Forums - Music tracks & feedback
Subject: uh another self voter
Original Message Date: 19-Nov-03 @ 04:06 PM - uh, another self voter
came from nothing, Joz suddenly 1, 2, 3 & 5 in the chart.
Message 31/43 21-Nov-03 @ 02:47 PM Edit: 21-Nov-03 | 02:57 PM - RE: uh another self voter
it was me SquareBear... who wrote to you.
& now guys, the upshot of this debacle is that a track I added to one of the front-page 'Compilation Playlists' for visitors (Trancey Stuff) has been pulled - *sigh*
well there ya go, like I said, you dont have to be psychic to see why people pull tracks under such circumstances, it was OBVIOUSLY nothing to do with the track being 'signed' out on vinyl.
I think SOME of the people here could do with a reality check where the whole music biz is concerned
How the fuck do you think the REAL music biz works ? - Do you REALLY beleive what is in the 'charts' on TV or at DOTmusic or wherever represents the reality of the public's buying? - why is the Pepsi chart different to the Music-Week chart? - Are Tesco's or Asda stores included in the chart shop sample list? -
Plugging companies compete heavily with each other to hype their tracks all over the country, radio stations get backhanders, people are courted and sometimes bribed, sometimes threatened subtley or blatently, the whole industry isnt about a true representation of what people are buying at all in most cases.
I just think people need a reality check & I think that people need to KNOW the difference between the odd incidents we've had here where someone has consistantly self-voted their track such as Gromyko and when this is NOT the case.... WE can take care of the Gromyko's of this world... leave that to us.
Look-it..... if I or any other person browses the music here... (do you ever do that????)... and finds a track they like, then they clip it into their basket and play it - Then they vote for it, mebbe each day - so WHAT!!!!
that's what the chart is about on ANY site... you cant stop people voting for a track they like.
So please... stop-it already with this site police shit, because I tell you straight, any more of it and I'm clamping down HARD around here.
Sometimes life is bigger than our own personal requirements of taste.
The new site is coming - Me and Zazza have worked our fucking BOLLOX off for this site music facility AND the new forthcoming www.7161.com site -
The bank has given us merchant facilities - do you know what that means?..
it means people can then BUY these Site compilations -
it means visitors can compile their OWN compilations & then BUY those compilations - all we'd have to do is get you guys to send master files in for creation of the master CD
it means YOU people can cough up a small annual fee and SELL your CD's direct -
yup that means you can sell your CD's from home and take credit card payments - ANY of you !! -
It also means ANY small bedroom label can use the facility on 7161 to take card payments and sell their CD's without having to fuck about trying to get that facility from their bank. (no chance in most cases - try it sometime!)
and that can happen on the USER-HOMEPAGES outside of the site too - so it's possible people can use the site to setup a 'Homepage' - build, manage and sell CD albums by simply adding tracks and compiling the CD's and steering clients by whatever means of their OWN promotion to that 'Homepage' URL
of course if you THINK about it - because any user HOMEPAGE resides in its OWN www directory - it's also quite possible for them to direct a domain-name to that user HOMEPAGE too if they want.
There's no telling what could happen
It means - just mebbe - that we could be starting to see the reality of a music label here because with the popularity of the site and the traffic we get there's absolutly NO reason why we cant go with that and try to build it.
Therefor it is logicaly encumbant on the participants to be mature about the whole thing is it not?
I would suggest that mebbe sometime, people browsed the music here..... there is thousands of tracks added to this site without any promotion for the site so-far - some I never heard before and I'm sure you didnt listen to them all either!
dont worry about people who come and fuck about trying to bend all the rules - we've had one idiot you don't know about for example who titles all their tracks to appear first in searches, who fucks up things by adding stupid text into their descriptions, who add's themselves into every genre to desperately try to be seen more
is their music any good?... no - it utterly sucks a whale's knob - and nothing they do will change that fact!!
so I suggest, let natural justice do it's work or do you beleive that people are so stupid that enuff hiking & browbeating can make you 'like' their music?
I dont think so somehow...
Now... SquareBear's track - It's not my preferred genre in music, I prefer other dance genre's to uplifting trance, I prefer more underground classic trance if it comes to it... BUT I can see a well crafted track when I hear one.
However, one of the things I had to do was create some example playlist compilations for various styles/genres - and without doubt his track is up there - well crafted, professionaly done, good hook (I can remember it)
My suggestion is that you can learn alot from tracks like that EVEN IF you happen to like OTHER genre's of music. Because, beleive it or not, ALL genre's pretty much follow the same rules from dance to rock
Once the NEW site is running YOU people can get together (as some of the guys already are now on one comp Project in the Projects section) to create compilations as a group - These comps can be promoted and people who want to CAN BUY THEM.
Jesus - I dont want to admin this site forever - I want to piss off to the french countryside and paint, eat cheese and guzzle du Vin - The site has to get to a point where it is a self sustaining co-op - & that requires some discipline - I mean if I get run over by a truck like my uncle did, or drop dead like some of my mates have done, or die of cancer like my pop did.... then what?...
it cant just fall apart.
Part of this remit is that we require a steady INCOMING flow of quality music in ALL styles - The new site can cater for rock/metal/indy acoustic/Jazz/world and whatever music - so even within your own prefered genre you have to realise you are part of a larger whole -
So, that requires that NEW people are welcomed and offered respect even IF they choose NOT to buddy with other people or become part of the daily forum life.
I mean seriously ... we need some 'customer-care' training round here!
It's like life imo....
Despite the rampant promotion of such an idea by the 'western democracies' , we do NOT live in a world where we are free to do what we like....
We are part of an organic whole with which we have to harmonise.
Right now, we are in a precarious position - large corporations are taking over - it is encumbant on people to try to stabilise to keep alive some sort of indy scene.
ok... carry on.
& now guys, the upshot of this debacle is that a track I added to one of the front-page 'Compilation Playlists' for visitors (Trancey Stuff) has been pulled - *sigh*
well there ya go, like I said, you dont have to be psychic to see why people pull tracks under such circumstances, it was OBVIOUSLY nothing to do with the track being 'signed' out on vinyl.
I think SOME of the people here could do with a reality check where the whole music biz is concerned
How the fuck do you think the REAL music biz works ? - Do you REALLY beleive what is in the 'charts' on TV or at DOTmusic or wherever represents the reality of the public's buying? - why is the Pepsi chart different to the Music-Week chart? - Are Tesco's or Asda stores included in the chart shop sample list? -
Plugging companies compete heavily with each other to hype their tracks all over the country, radio stations get backhanders, people are courted and sometimes bribed, sometimes threatened subtley or blatently, the whole industry isnt about a true representation of what people are buying at all in most cases.
I just think people need a reality check & I think that people need to KNOW the difference between the odd incidents we've had here where someone has consistantly self-voted their track such as Gromyko and when this is NOT the case.... WE can take care of the Gromyko's of this world... leave that to us.
Look-it..... if I or any other person browses the music here... (do you ever do that????)... and finds a track they like, then they clip it into their basket and play it - Then they vote for it, mebbe each day - so WHAT!!!!
that's what the chart is about on ANY site... you cant stop people voting for a track they like.
So please... stop-it already with this site police shit, because I tell you straight, any more of it and I'm clamping down HARD around here.
Sometimes life is bigger than our own personal requirements of taste.
The new site is coming - Me and Zazza have worked our fucking BOLLOX off for this site music facility AND the new forthcoming www.7161.com site -
The bank has given us merchant facilities - do you know what that means?..
it means people can then BUY these Site compilations -
it means visitors can compile their OWN compilations & then BUY those compilations - all we'd have to do is get you guys to send master files in for creation of the master CD
it means YOU people can cough up a small annual fee and SELL your CD's direct -
yup that means you can sell your CD's from home and take credit card payments - ANY of you !! -
It also means ANY small bedroom label can use the facility on 7161 to take card payments and sell their CD's without having to fuck about trying to get that facility from their bank. (no chance in most cases - try it sometime!)
and that can happen on the USER-HOMEPAGES outside of the site too - so it's possible people can use the site to setup a 'Homepage' - build, manage and sell CD albums by simply adding tracks and compiling the CD's and steering clients by whatever means of their OWN promotion to that 'Homepage' URL
of course if you THINK about it - because any user HOMEPAGE resides in its OWN www directory - it's also quite possible for them to direct a domain-name to that user HOMEPAGE too if they want.
There's no telling what could happen
It means - just mebbe - that we could be starting to see the reality of a music label here because with the popularity of the site and the traffic we get there's absolutly NO reason why we cant go with that and try to build it.
Therefor it is logicaly encumbant on the participants to be mature about the whole thing is it not?
I would suggest that mebbe sometime, people browsed the music here..... there is thousands of tracks added to this site without any promotion for the site so-far - some I never heard before and I'm sure you didnt listen to them all either!
dont worry about people who come and fuck about trying to bend all the rules - we've had one idiot you don't know about for example who titles all their tracks to appear first in searches, who fucks up things by adding stupid text into their descriptions, who add's themselves into every genre to desperately try to be seen more
is their music any good?... no - it utterly sucks a whale's knob - and nothing they do will change that fact!!
so I suggest, let natural justice do it's work or do you beleive that people are so stupid that enuff hiking & browbeating can make you 'like' their music?
I dont think so somehow...
Now... SquareBear's track - It's not my preferred genre in music, I prefer other dance genre's to uplifting trance, I prefer more underground classic trance if it comes to it... BUT I can see a well crafted track when I hear one.
However, one of the things I had to do was create some example playlist compilations for various styles/genres - and without doubt his track is up there - well crafted, professionaly done, good hook (I can remember it)
My suggestion is that you can learn alot from tracks like that EVEN IF you happen to like OTHER genre's of music. Because, beleive it or not, ALL genre's pretty much follow the same rules from dance to rock
Once the NEW site is running YOU people can get together (as some of the guys already are now on one comp Project in the Projects section) to create compilations as a group - These comps can be promoted and people who want to CAN BUY THEM.
Jesus - I dont want to admin this site forever - I want to piss off to the french countryside and paint, eat cheese and guzzle du Vin - The site has to get to a point where it is a self sustaining co-op - & that requires some discipline - I mean if I get run over by a truck like my uncle did, or drop dead like some of my mates have done, or die of cancer like my pop did.... then what?...
it cant just fall apart.
Part of this remit is that we require a steady INCOMING flow of quality music in ALL styles - The new site can cater for rock/metal/indy acoustic/Jazz/world and whatever music - so even within your own prefered genre you have to realise you are part of a larger whole -
So, that requires that NEW people are welcomed and offered respect even IF they choose NOT to buddy with other people or become part of the daily forum life.
I mean seriously ... we need some 'customer-care' training round here!
It's like life imo....
Despite the rampant promotion of such an idea by the 'western democracies' , we do NOT live in a world where we are free to do what we like....
We are part of an organic whole with which we have to harmonise.
Right now, we are in a precarious position - large corporations are taking over - it is encumbant on people to try to stabilise to keep alive some sort of indy scene.
ok... carry on.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 32/43 21-Nov-03 @ 04:04 PM - RE: uh another self voter
Ok, maybe I got a little hot-headed myself as well. I'm not well known here by any means and in fact have only posted once before to promote my track, so I can see where anyone thought it may have been a self vote.
You annoyed me with your "oooh track played by ukranians......accepted warmly." as I found it very sarcastic. That was one of my early career highlights and I didn't appreciate the patronising comment.
The only part I do disagree with you though is that you don't believe I had forgotten about dancetech. I apologise if that fact upsets you but do you realise the number of message boards I've had to sign up to in order to promote my music? Do you realise how many months and in fact years I've been plugging away with my music and only now have it noticed by a label. I'm now busy with remix work, promoting my record and writing new material for possible release. Jeez, I've even had my music appear on a "dance machine" simulator. I just don't have time to visit every message board I've ever discovered through google but I certainly don't mean it as any disrespect to the site.
You don't know me but anyone who does would tell you that I would NEVER turn my back on someone who had helped me. I made a post here when I uploaded "Run Away" about a year ago and got a few good responses to the track as I had done on many, many message boards. As hard as I try to keep up with all the promotional work, I'm afraid some sites slip the net as is the case here.
I don't particularly want to turn this into a flame war and I'll probably upload some more music in the future but I get a lot of flack from non-fans and I think I probably lost it a little this time.
*Square Bear offers to shake hands and forget about this?*
You annoyed me with your "oooh track played by ukranians......accepted warmly." as I found it very sarcastic. That was one of my early career highlights and I didn't appreciate the patronising comment.
The only part I do disagree with you though is that you don't believe I had forgotten about dancetech. I apologise if that fact upsets you but do you realise the number of message boards I've had to sign up to in order to promote my music? Do you realise how many months and in fact years I've been plugging away with my music and only now have it noticed by a label. I'm now busy with remix work, promoting my record and writing new material for possible release. Jeez, I've even had my music appear on a "dance machine" simulator. I just don't have time to visit every message board I've ever discovered through google but I certainly don't mean it as any disrespect to the site.
You don't know me but anyone who does would tell you that I would NEVER turn my back on someone who had helped me. I made a post here when I uploaded "Run Away" about a year ago and got a few good responses to the track as I had done on many, many message boards. As hard as I try to keep up with all the promotional work, I'm afraid some sites slip the net as is the case here.
I don't particularly want to turn this into a flame war and I'll probably upload some more music in the future but I get a lot of flack from non-fans and I think I probably lost it a little this time.
*Square Bear offers to shake hands and forget about this?*
Message 33/43 21-Nov-03 @ 04:11 PM - RE: uh another self voter
I meant to add that this was the only other post I've made here:
http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/forums/thread.cfm?threadid=31656&chatter_id=30&age=700
As you can see, I helped someone out with a software recommendation so please don't make me out to be some kind of big, bad wolf character.
http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/forums/thread.cfm?threadid=31656&chatter_id=30&age=700
As you can see, I helped someone out with a software recommendation so please don't make me out to be some kind of big, bad wolf character.
Message 34/43 21-Nov-03 @ 04:27 PM - RE: uh another self voter
i got no pizza left but i did defrost a steak last night so it's nice welsh beef and chips for me.
i'm gonna post a slew of 1 minute 30 second long tracks about poodles driving and people falling over on skis next week, full of samples and loops (apart from a couple) then i'm gonna get somebody to vote them to the top of the charts. then i'm gonna vote myself once a day to keep them up there. then i'll get bored and stop doing it.
at which point is someone going to start a heated debate about it all?
i'll pop in and talk about what i'm having for dinner again anytime
i'm gonna post a slew of 1 minute 30 second long tracks about poodles driving and people falling over on skis next week, full of samples and loops (apart from a couple) then i'm gonna get somebody to vote them to the top of the charts. then i'm gonna vote myself once a day to keep them up there. then i'll get bored and stop doing it.
at which point is someone going to start a heated debate about it all?
i'll pop in and talk about what i'm having for dinner again anytime
Message 35/43 22-Nov-03 @ 01:53 AM - RE: uh another self voter
it's about time beds!!!!! i know you got it in you and i can't wait.
as for you square bear....my hand....in return. shake~
i'm a sarcastic prick at times...sure... but only when a point requires making and i felt it did.
and no NOW you certainly made your point.
and k made his point......and i think this is the bottom-line_ for all that it's worth.
make tracks....try to make decent tracks. try to listen. try to support each other. try to even vote for each other if it's an honest vote. apathy sucks...ahem.
and finger-pointing is not a cure.
but the best point k made is this and i quote:
I dont want to admin this site forever - I want to piss off to the french countryside and paint, eat cheese and guzzle du Vin
as for you square bear....my hand....in return. shake~
i'm a sarcastic prick at times...sure... but only when a point requires making and i felt it did.
and no NOW you certainly made your point.
and k made his point......and i think this is the bottom-line_ for all that it's worth.
make tracks....try to make decent tracks. try to listen. try to support each other. try to even vote for each other if it's an honest vote. apathy sucks...ahem.
and finger-pointing is not a cure.
but the best point k made is this and i quote:
I dont want to admin this site forever - I want to piss off to the french countryside and paint, eat cheese and guzzle du Vin
Message 36/43 22-Nov-03 @ 06:44 AM - RE: uh another self voter
weren't there a few trancers around here who went big then pissed on us by not coming back showing support?
(not making any referance to you SquareBear!! hehe :D)
(not making any referance to you SquareBear!! hehe :D)
Message 37/43 22-Nov-03 @ 06:50 AM - RE: uh another self voter
hey square...
I was kinda the one that started the initial witch hunt..and it really was justified in a way, but got way out of hand...
theres just this...pathetic feel to the obvious voting. But having a couple new tracks up doesnt necessarily imply that, does it?
I mean...clays been in the charts for a LONG time...and I really doubt he clicks that little box every day.
some people DO tho..and its gay.
if you want a scary read..check out the "Im gonna say it again, track votes" thread that I started. Some interesting loss of control there.
congrats on the career leap...not too sure about the Dance Machine or whatever but its nice to hear that your perseverance is paying off for you!
I was kinda the one that started the initial witch hunt..and it really was justified in a way, but got way out of hand...
theres just this...pathetic feel to the obvious voting. But having a couple new tracks up doesnt necessarily imply that, does it?
I mean...clays been in the charts for a LONG time...and I really doubt he clicks that little box every day.
some people DO tho..and its gay.
if you want a scary read..check out the "Im gonna say it again, track votes" thread that I started. Some interesting loss of control there.
congrats on the career leap...not too sure about the Dance Machine or whatever
but its nice to hear that your perseverance is paying off for you!
Message 38/43 22-Nov-03 @ 09:18 AM - RE: uh another self voter
yeah - well anyways once this is all working the guys can get together and make more comp's - we can setup a comp page featuring the albums - outside tracks can always be brought in it, simply means the artists has to upload the track to include. So wheover's putting these comp's together could bring in tracks if required from people they know who dont use the site.
trust me - you only have to show some regular sales, even small, and you'll get investors to push the label further along.
Incidently - did you know the server site we live on (www.thebunker.net) is owned by Ben Laurie - Zazza's known him along time - Him and his mates did the Interface Pirate Radio
http://interface.pirate-radio.org/ (remember?) who were the worlds first internet pirate radio... who knows' what can happen.
trust me - you only have to show some regular sales, even small, and you'll get investors to push the label further along.
Incidently - did you know the server site we live on (www.thebunker.net) is owned by Ben Laurie - Zazza's known him along time - Him and his mates did the Interface Pirate Radio
http://interface.pirate-radio.org/ (remember?) who were the worlds first internet pirate radio... who knows' what can happen.
Message 39/43 22-Nov-03 @ 10:35 AM - RE: uh another self voter
interface!!! yes mate... i was so into them, thanks for poting that link.... i was trying to remember what they were called just recently
and yes K... good luck with replacing mp3.com ;)
and yes K... good luck with replacing mp3.com ;)
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