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Forums - Theory / composition / technique
Subject: Live techniques?
Original Message Date: 20-Jan-02 @ 09:36 AM - Live techniques?
I was just wondering how each of you approaches live performance. There's a lot of different ways to play to a crowd, and although I've tried a bunch of different methods myself, I'm always curious to see how others are doing it, and what we can learn from each others' methods.
Ape
Ape
Message 41/65 19-Mar-02 @ 05:32 PM - RE: Live techniques?
I view them as another instrument, or tool for exprression, and if they belong somewhere, be it word, noises, beatbox, singing, whatever, then it goes in. If it's about something other than words, then you use whatever you need to to express the feeling you are trying to convey. I love live vox, well don, personally. Marianimal kicks ass live. Wish I could sing. Another guy to keep an ey out for is Kid Lucky. He's done vocals with cats like Ornette Coleman. Serious head stuff.
Ape
Ape
Message 42/65 19-Mar-02 @ 06:37 PM - RE: Live techniques?
and I DID intend to drop a disclaimer:
so far, what I have heard of Duo Electro, marianimal sounds quite good thank you
pongoid brought something up..I DO like vocal samples..cuts, edits, whatever...then it stays in the realm of "fringe" music...
I just..one thing that irks me is that MANY of the producers I have really dug in the past all end up doing vocal tracks
and the interviews are all the same:
"I wanted to broaden my musical horizons..."
SO YOU GO *BACK* TO CONVENTIONAL METHODS? what..you think that because you threw some fucking cliche'd lyrics over the top of your watered down beats you are PROGRESSING?
fuck off with that shit. its called "MY RECORD LABEL WANTED TO GET A BETTER SECTION OF THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC TO BUY THEIR RECORD SO WE TRIED THE CROSSOVER ROUTE"
FUCK YOU with that shit
so far, what I have heard of Duo Electro, marianimal sounds quite good thank you
pongoid brought something up..I DO like vocal samples..cuts, edits, whatever...then it stays in the realm of "fringe" music...
I just..one thing that irks me is that MANY of the producers I have really dug in the past all end up doing vocal tracks
and the interviews are all the same:
"I wanted to broaden my musical horizons..."
SO YOU GO *BACK* TO CONVENTIONAL METHODS? what..you think that because you threw some fucking cliche'd lyrics over the top of your watered down beats you are PROGRESSING?
fuck off with that shit. its called "MY RECORD LABEL WANTED TO GET A BETTER SECTION OF THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC TO BUY THEIR RECORD SO WE TRIED THE CROSSOVER ROUTE"
FUCK YOU with that shit
Message 43/65 19-Mar-02 @ 06:44 PM - RE: Live techniques?
marianimal
Posts: 448
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Aw, shucks. Well I have a very good teacher, Rita Sahai, who's helped me a lot over the past year.
For me the distinction between lyrics and literature is usually that lyrics suggest or poetically represent something, tending to work more in the subconscious, which is affected by symbols and suggestions; while literature is more straightforwardly expressive of the idea, and works more in the conscious mind. Of course plenty of things blur those distinctions. There's some very poetic literature, like Faulkner, and certainly a writer's ideas can work their way into your subconscious. And some lyrics are really straightforward while being poetic at the same time, like Lynton Kwesi Johnson's. Then there's epic poetry, wherever that fits in. I'm not sure I would want to dance while listening to Beowulf. Maybe though, if the bass was decent.
For me the distinction between lyrics and literature is usually that lyrics suggest or poetically represent something, tending to work more in the subconscious, which is affected by symbols and suggestions; while literature is more straightforwardly expressive of the idea, and works more in the conscious mind. Of course plenty of things blur those distinctions. There's some very poetic literature, like Faulkner, and certainly a writer's ideas can work their way into your subconscious. And some lyrics are really straightforward while being poetic at the same time, like Lynton Kwesi Johnson's. Then there's epic poetry, wherever that fits in. I'm not sure I would want to dance while listening to Beowulf. Maybe though, if the bass was decent.
Message 44/65 19-Mar-02 @ 08:53 PM - RE: Live techniques?
[image file]
thought a little morre about this last night...
lyrics tend to be a little more vague then say a
book or novel. in about five minutes someone
is trying to express an idea or story as
opposed to over 200 pages. that said, i think
the job of a lyricist is more difficult to express a
meaningful thought in such a short time. and
then when you factor in having to repeat parts
(chorus in some cases) it's even less time.
i guess that's what makes a good lyricist to
me. someone who can express a new idea
and sound good doing it.
Message 45/65 19-Mar-02 @ 10:51 PM - RE: Live techniques?
To be honest, I rarely understand lyrics in a song. Well some pop maybe and then I'm sorry I did. But growing up listening to the radio or cds I'd understand maybe 50% of what was being sung. I love the vocals I've heard by Underworld and Orbital. Underworld especially. The first track on "Everything, Everything", the vocal is phenomenal. It totally makes that track. There is something very moody and intoxicating about their vocals. Still, I hardly understand a word of it. One song of theirs I had no idea what was being said in a repeated phrase until I picked up a remix of it and the phrase was the title. I was like, Doh! that's what he's saying. Or Orbital and their "Philosophy?...Tech-technology." The women who sing on their cds is great As much as I liked The Crystal Method's "Vegas", I never cared for the female vocals. A little too stylish "trying to be sexy" for my taste.
When I'm writing music I often feel like I want the human voice in there somewhere...spoken, a conversation, sampled and mangled, something. I enjoy music without vocals though.
When I'm writing music I often feel like I want the human voice in there somewhere...spoken, a conversation, sampled and mangled, something. I enjoy music without vocals though.
Message 46/65 20-Mar-02 @ 12:17 AM - RE: Live techniques?
Well live vox and the feedback issue are really a pain, more so when you don't have a sound guy to tweak the EQ and so on....
Personally, I enjoy working with live musos of any sort. It can be a bit more hassle to sort out details, but it's a lot of fun to do. I've went out with as many as five performers in my crew. I've done shows with live vox, guitar, synths, drums/percussion, etc., and aside from technical details and lots of extra practice, it was worth doing..... Main thing, as with any live performance, is practice, practice, practice. You sort out the likely causes of feedback, timing, etc., and you make adjustements. Thank the darkness for feedback eliminators....=)
As for vox in trax, I'm basically with Pongoid. Vocals are another instrument. In my world, the track is god, egos mean nada to me. Thus, if "god" wants a vox, "god" gets a vox. If "god" doesn't want a vox, "god" doesn't get a vox. I certainly don't think having a vox in a track "adulters" the music in any way. Vox was probably the first instrument after all...
That said, I tend to enjoy "vocalizations" more than lyrics (and for me vocalizations can include lyrics done in a language I don't understand....). I'm quite fond of what Sheila Chandra does for instance. Very talented instrument, she is...
I do understand your take, Influx, but methinks it has more to do with the ratio of crap to the ratio of innovation. Good vox, lyrical or not, adds to a track in the same way a good synthline does. Least that's my perception.
I've been wanting to put together a tight crew to do live stuff for a long time. Just can't seem to find people who have the necessary amount of commitment and talent. I'd like to have a crew that knows enuff about the various pieces of kit that we could switch back and forth with who is doing what. Like the keys player hopping on a set of congas, or a guitarist playing keys or sampler, or a vocalist that tweaks a synth, etc., etc. Twould be fun for the players and methinks the crowd would dig it too.
And a final note about the "stand and watch" types at shows where you have live players: It's been me experience that if the groove is on, they'll stand and watch for a bit, but the if you're using the right mojo, it's inevitable, the bodies begin to move, the deed goes down, and the set is over before you realize....
Peace All
Personally, I enjoy working with live musos of any sort. It can be a bit more hassle to sort out details, but it's a lot of fun to do. I've went out with as many as five performers in my crew. I've done shows with live vox, guitar, synths, drums/percussion, etc., and aside from technical details and lots of extra practice, it was worth doing..... Main thing, as with any live performance, is practice, practice, practice. You sort out the likely causes of feedback, timing, etc., and you make adjustements. Thank the darkness for feedback eliminators....=)
As for vox in trax, I'm basically with Pongoid. Vocals are another instrument. In my world, the track is god, egos mean nada to me. Thus, if "god" wants a vox, "god" gets a vox. If "god" doesn't want a vox, "god" doesn't get a vox. I certainly don't think having a vox in a track "adulters" the music in any way. Vox was probably the first instrument after all...
That said, I tend to enjoy "vocalizations" more than lyrics (and for me vocalizations can include lyrics done in a language I don't understand....). I'm quite fond of what Sheila Chandra does for instance. Very talented instrument, she is...
I do understand your take, Influx, but methinks it has more to do with the ratio of crap to the ratio of innovation. Good vox, lyrical or not, adds to a track in the same way a good synthline does. Least that's my perception.
I've been wanting to put together a tight crew to do live stuff for a long time. Just can't seem to find people who have the necessary amount of commitment and talent. I'd like to have a crew that knows enuff about the various pieces of kit that we could switch back and forth with who is doing what. Like the keys player hopping on a set of congas, or a guitarist playing keys or sampler, or a vocalist that tweaks a synth, etc., etc. Twould be fun for the players and methinks the crowd would dig it too.
And a final note about the "stand and watch" types at shows where you have live players: It's been me experience that if the groove is on, they'll stand and watch for a bit, but the if you're using the right mojo, it's inevitable, the bodies begin to move, the deed goes down, and the set is over before you realize....
Peace All
Message 47/65 20-Mar-02 @ 01:48 AM - RE: Live techniques?
As much as we used to break eachothers' chops, I loved playing live with other musicians in the past life of my namesake. Now I enjoy the "friendships I'm developing with my synths. We break eachothers' chops too. If you've ever listened to Indian classical music, (I know you have Marianimal), you know it normally picks up speed and development until it peaks at the end at breakneck speed. One excellent tabla player I with compared it to the relationship of a couple that always ends in a ferocious argument. I guess that reflected his relationships maybe. I said I thought the music was like making love and the end was climaxing. I told him that's why whenever we finish we go out and have a cigarette. We had a good laugh over that. Anyway I'm a little out of the realm of music here but that was most of my live experience. I love dance music and I love my synths now. There's nothing like it. The sitar is a sound person's nightmare btw. So many overtones going from the sympathetic strings. But they all loved it nonetheless. I think it was the challenge. You have to show up being prepared to tell them what to do during soundchecks.
Message 48/65 20-Mar-02 @ 03:04 AM - RE: Live techniques?
marianimal
Posts: 448
Link?: No link
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That's really cool y'all are using live instrumentalists. Collision Course aka the Drum Machine Museum had a young trumpet player with them last time I saw them, and she really added something special that drum machines just don't do.
Message 49/65 20-Mar-02 @ 03:24 AM - RE: Live techniques?
I'm just realizing something. I'm sitting here listening to a Jeff Mills track I picked up. Some cool stuff. I sit with my gear and write things piecemeal. Start with one part or another and go from there. The few times I've sat with my gear and actually just played it's been a gas. Should power up the gear, get a groove going, do whatever comes naturally at this point and record on the fly. Sort it out later. Will take my analytical mind out of it, get me familiar with the ins and outs of using my rig live, and be even more fun. I'm hearing Jeff Mills' bringing stuff in and out and you naturally do that when playing. Rather than recording something and then wondering if I should do this or that with it when and where in the track. Doh!
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