why i am happy about the elections

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Subject: why i am happy about the elections

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Original Message Date: 06-Nov-02 @ 01:21 PM - why i am happy about the elections

formant

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this probably fits into the category K doesn't want posted here.

so fair warning... if you are offended by the topic of abortion quit reading. and take this point: i am not telling you what to believe, i am telling you what i believe so take it for what it is, an opinion.

ok i think that the republicans gaining control of the senate is the absolute most important thing to ever happen in the past 30 years.

this means that bush gets to appoint judges without having them blocked left and right. so just as clinton did before him, bush can put people into positions of power who are anti-abortion.

i think that abortion is the biggest travesty against human life in america since slavery.

just as the white slave owners of the blacks said that they were not human and thereby justified thier actions in pursuit of wealth i see the same thing happening today.

then it was 'these slaves are not humans therefore to gain wealth and happiness we will abuse them and do as we please with them... since they are not humans they have no rights'

today i see people saying the same thing:

'it doesn't matter that i have created a baby because it isn't a human being. i need to go to college/work/whatever so that i can be happy and prosperous. i will therefore do what i like with this nonhuman so that i can persue wealth and an easy life unhindered'

what exactly is the difference between the slave owners and the current people who choose to take human life in order to serve themselves?

i believe that *should* roe v wade get overturned in this country it will be a great stride forward for all humanity.

extremely inflammatory comment here: if bush gets abortion outlawed or at a minimum pushed back to a states right to choose america will be standing in defense of the helpless and needy.

i am aware many do not agree with me but that is fine. many people were against lincoln when he tried to abolish slavery, afterall they weren't humans.

you guys can slam me if you want (used to it) but this has to be the most important civil rights issue since the MLK days and it affects people of all colors and nationalities indiscriminately.

i hope that justice comes for the innocent lives that are lost every day in the name of greed and selfishness.

jamey

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Message 41/122 07-Nov-02 @ 10:03 AM - RE: why i am happy about the elections

psylichon

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influx, thanks for seeing through it all, man. I just want to point out, though, that I did a search in this thread for the phrase "I don't care what you think" and the only person who said it was you. I did find this from formant, though:

"so fair warning... if you are offended by the topic of abortion quit reading. and take this point: i am not telling you what to believe, i am telling you what i believe so take it for what it is, an opinion."

Man, that's pretty damned clear.

I just point this out because it's SO easy to misinterpret tone in people's online posts. little yellow smileys and their variants are basically our only tools to emote in the electron world. And (being E-honest here without the E) I see you doing more tone-interpreting than anyone on here. I think we all do it, and it affects our responses heavily, it's just you actually type it out and shit!

heheh... it's fun to talk about this stuff. Even when it gets ugly. you guys probably hate me for laughing through all this....

psylichon

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Message 42/122 07-Nov-02 @ 10:14 AM - RE: why i am happy about the elections

Zazza

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well, i'm trying to have a debate but formant doesn't answer my questions, so what the..

This a really tricky topic, one that deserves to be treated with respect.. because it's an ethical minefield..

which i why i was asking questions.. to whit:

'formant: at what point does life begin?

Is the freshly fertilised egg alive?

Is a sperm alive?

Is contraception ok by you?

Under what circumstances would you judge that abortion should be permissible?
'

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Message 43/122 07-Nov-02 @ 10:15 AM - RE: why i am happy about the elections

Zazza

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my biggest problem is telling some woman i dont even know what the hell she should do...

My feeling would be to place a time limit, and only allow abortion before the feotus has formed a nervous system, but im no expert..

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Message 44/122 07-Nov-02 @ 10:57 AM - RE: why i am happy about the elections

cheddar

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creation of rights is an acknowledgment of care, Rights for legislation to protect... whatever. I could get pissed and talk about national left handed day but just diversions - diversions from actualy caring. How much caring is done personal and public. You are caring in public Jamey but does this discharge 'the duty of care'? I don't know, possibly you don't know (any kids Jamey?)

Other stuff

Is this the same America who's corporations fund covert sterilization of 3rd world countries..? WHAT

ivf and a million million sperm rather allows genocide, what is it Monty Python say about every single sperm?

Man this could be protecting tomorrows market - "need another baby boomer generation". Mussolini had a line on that. Catholisism in republicanism (thats funny)

F - "worse than slavery" crap - don't confuse quantity with quality. (But 'The Socialism' says "enough data becomes quality data - eh?)

Subjugation of women with this legislation..?

I think that there could be a flaw in the US service model. You can have all you want but you will be protected from damaging the rihghts of the defenceless, "Who are the defenceless this week Martin?", "the blue rinses say unborn infants David", "Cheers Martin", "have a nice day David" ..."Yes! the unborn need protecting from the damaging, have all you can have whatever colour, 24 hour drive through be all you can be ethos" " ...asside to Polynesian PA "We need to get legal on a better definition of life, the Chinese and Europeans are going to corner the market on stem cells".

choice, choice, choice. If we have tech to live longer and are living longer, we have protected the buying power of the next baby boomer generation and we are clearing the human forrest in the 3rd world so we have somewhere for them to build their condo poolside complexes (once they get the mud huts and the animals out of the way

Anyway, flame or no flame - Bush is in charge, Bullshit continues to sell (sighs with e) - maybe thats why the happy - less to do with foetus/slavery..? Sorry that's a bit heavy but I am soo dissapointed, no wait, I don't give a

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Message 45/122 07-Nov-02 @ 11:24 AM - RE: why i am happy about the elections

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no I'm not going to argue with that formant, I don't neccesarily agree, but it's your valid opinion.

The worst thing about abortion is they dont tell you the psychological consequences for the parties involved. Suddenly every time you turn on Tv there is some refference to babies or birth, you wouldn't beleive how much, and it eats right into you if you're not careful. Also most couples bust up who do that which they also dont tell you.

The councilling side of it is total shit and it's become more like a factory-farm business which I must say i dont agree with. I think if councilled right and told the truth about the consequences MOST people wouldn't do it.

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Message 46/122 07-Nov-02 @ 11:54 AM - RE: why i am happy about the elections

xoxos

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p - there are some things you don't debate.

are you fucking yourself? you want to debate abortion with a christian? what are you hoping to accomplish? i mean really - what are the tangible fruits, results, of this exercise???? shit, i've got a bag of rice you can have a discussion about particle physics with if you like.

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Message 47/122 07-Nov-02 @ 01:24 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections

Zazza

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lets have a mass debate!

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Message 48/122 07-Nov-02 @ 01:37 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections

BJT

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Cheddar raises an amazingly good point.

How can Bush be anti-abortion yet support embroynic research, man the irony is too intense, I have to sit outside for a bit.

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Message 49/122 07-Nov-02 @ 01:58 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections

cheddar

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I think the covert sterilization of the 3rd world is much more important and zero's any pro vote

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Message 50/122 07-Nov-02 @ 02:20 PM - RE: why i am happy about the elections

Zazza

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he only supports research using 'existing' stem cell lines.. i.e. ones that are held as a patent by a US university and don't involve any more abotions i think..

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