 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - The lounge
Subject: Destroy All Media
Original Message Date: 05-May-03 @ 11:26 PM - Destroy All Media
check this out:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/05/04/IN164833.DTL
What's your take on all this you guys? Some extremely lucid points here... A good read!
e
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/05/04/IN164833.DTL
What's your take on all this you guys? Some extremely lucid points here... A good read!
e
Message 41/53 09-May-03 @ 06:32 PM Edit: 09-May-03 | 07:46 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Luci's fuckin spot on thats for sure. jesus. how about men getting their fucking tubes tied and quit bein fuckin ANIMALS whos only goal is to procreate?
what a bunch of fools we are sitting here acting as though we can solve this fucking mess.
personally...the drastic shift required to make things "right" again is 99% out of reach, BUT if we were to make an effort I believe that progress would come from the ground up with humanity, IE people need to be taught better from the very start.
I think overpopulation is DEFINITELY an issue, and the sense of entitlement and the "right" to have children when sadly (I would say) most of the children born end up fucked up emotionally which perpetuates the cycle on every level all the way up to the power elite. Look at the behavior of past leaders. Womanizing, greed, power mongering...really...all just extensions of a poor upbringing that doesnt teach compassion and respect for humans (not that all humans deserve respect at present but if they were raised properly, ethically things could be drastically different, no?
so yeah, less babies. no doubt. maybe for..dunno...two generations...as a group agreement? and then...those that are born...dammit...oh the potential is just AMAZING and the way we squander it is so horribly depressing
what a bunch of fools we are sitting here acting as though we can solve this fucking mess.
personally...the drastic shift required to make things "right" again is 99% out of reach, BUT if we were to make an effort I believe that progress would come from the ground up with humanity, IE people need to be taught better from the very start.
I think overpopulation is DEFINITELY an issue, and the sense of entitlement and the "right" to have children when sadly (I would say) most of the children born end up fucked up emotionally which perpetuates the cycle on every level all the way up to the power elite. Look at the behavior of past leaders. Womanizing, greed, power mongering...really...all just extensions of a poor upbringing that doesnt teach compassion and respect for humans (not that all humans deserve respect at present but if they were raised properly, ethically things could be drastically different, no?
so yeah, less babies. no doubt. maybe for..dunno...two generations...as a group agreement? and then...those that are born...dammit...oh the potential is just AMAZING and the way we squander it is so horribly depressing
Message 42/53 09-May-03 @ 07:35 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Yeah, overpopulation is a REAL problem. But so is people behaving like sh+theads. I'm not cnvinced that they are completely related.
And there IS enough food to go around. That's what makes the scenario's offered above so depressing. They would probably not really work! And they should not be necessary. I have 3 children, born over the last 12 years. That put's me WAY over the limit under Pongoids plan. And you know what, none of my children are gluttonous, mean or any more selfish than can be helped considering the mess. I suppose this proves Influx's point a bit. And I'd say it makes a bit of a case against Pongoids. Oh, sure, we're americans... which means that by the nature of our geography and the shameful inheritance of our nationality we have the luxury provided on the backs of others. Not to be done about that at this point, really! But to teach human compassion and understanding, and a profound respect for where it came from.
If people could do this all around the world, then humans (for the most part) would be a better lot than they are today!... I'm not perfect, neither are my kids... but we'd all be better if circumstance didn't dictate someof our responses... wouldn't we?
e
And there IS enough food to go around. That's what makes the scenario's offered above so depressing. They would probably not really work! And they should not be necessary. I have 3 children, born over the last 12 years. That put's me WAY over the limit under Pongoids plan. And you know what, none of my children are gluttonous, mean or any more selfish than can be helped considering the mess. I suppose this proves Influx's point a bit. And I'd say it makes a bit of a case against Pongoids. Oh, sure, we're americans... which means that by the nature of our geography and the shameful inheritance of our nationality we have the luxury provided on the backs of others. Not to be done about that at this point, really! But to teach human compassion and understanding, and a profound respect for where it came from.
If people could do this all around the world, then humans (for the most part) would be a better lot than they are today!... I'm not perfect, neither are my kids... but we'd all be better if circumstance didn't dictate someof our responses... wouldn't we?
e
Message 43/53 09-May-03 @ 08:54 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
seems like there's more than a bit of "yes, the problem
exists, most def!" but P.S. "i [and my offspring] are the
exception to the rule". bullsh i t, *i* say. really. these
statements of altruism reek pretense and intensify the *
very exact* problematic way of thinking, exponentially.
duh, everyone's *taught better* from the start! even if
they are, which is way assuming of the parent, eh?
they are then released out into the world and are
untrained, if you will, by their very peers and their peers'
parental training and habits and ways of life and TV,
that ever-fuc k ing acceptable disease...now THAT is a
virus proven very effective...all for the sake of a very
empty kind of acceptance...eh blablabla i could go on
all night and what a terrific audience etc. all i mean is
society is a frigging terrifying JOKE. you don't stand a
chance.
agonies indeed.. didn't even want to touch this part of
the subject. never have anything nice to say which is
why i am usually silent and should have shut up at
'seems like..'. grumblegrmblgrmbl
exists, most def!" but P.S. "i [and my offspring] are the
exception to the rule". bullsh i t, *i* say. really. these
statements of altruism reek pretense and intensify the *
very exact* problematic way of thinking, exponentially.
duh, everyone's *taught better* from the start! even if
they are, which is way assuming of the parent, eh?
they are then released out into the world and are
untrained, if you will, by their very peers and their peers'
parental training and habits and ways of life and TV,
that ever-fuc k ing acceptable disease...now THAT is a
virus proven very effective...all for the sake of a very
empty kind of acceptance...eh blablabla i could go on
all night and what a terrific audience etc. all i mean is
society is a frigging terrifying JOKE. you don't stand a
chance.
agonies indeed.. didn't even want to touch this part of
the subject. never have anything nice to say which is
why i am usually silent and should have shut up at
'seems like..'. grumblegrmblgrmbl
Message 44/53 09-May-03 @ 10:35 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
damn girl, and here i was thinking I had gotten meaner and negative-er
Message 45/53 09-May-03 @ 11:01 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
Yeah I knew it was pretentious when i posted it! Felt like bullsh+t, but what can I say... By personalizing it I'm simply saying that if people were responsible in bringing up their children, there would not be as much of that crap in the first place! Hence the last statement in my last post!
You're right, sort of! You see I agree there's an overpopulation problem under the current system. I do not believe that it's the population that's a problem though, it's the system!
And this fuggin' nihilsitic, self-righteous bullsh+t about how the world sucks and you can't win is why it's the way it is! Because someone has to fuggin' win... meaning someone else looses.
but again, sorry to get personla with the kids thing... I knew better than to go there when I did it!
e
You're right, sort of! You see I agree there's an overpopulation problem under the current system. I do not believe that it's the population that's a problem though, it's the system!
And this fuggin' nihilsitic, self-righteous bullsh+t about how the world sucks and you can't win is why it's the way it is! Because someone has to fuggin' win... meaning someone else looses.
but again, sorry to get personla with the kids thing... I knew better than to go there when I did it!
e
Message 46/53 09-May-03 @ 11:06 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
not intended, and not negative in the slightest.
Message 47/53 09-May-03 @ 11:43 PM - RE: Destroy All Media
gosh its so nice to be able to have conversations with you again
Message 48/53 10-May-03 @ 12:35 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Has anybody ever heard of the term Vanishing Point? It's a term used to describe the point in time when humanity will create sufficient impact upon the biosphere as to make it no longer sustainable for the bulk majority of organic life as we know it. It means basically the point at which we fuck up the planet's surface and the delicate balance it has to the point where it cannot undo the damage and the ecosystems for the most part just collapse. Every day information is factored into this equation and this point in time is roughly calculated. The rate at which we approach that point is increasing exponentially. The idea of trying to instill sufficient selflessness in humans to persuade them to defy both their most core of instincts, AND what religious/govermental/social edicts tell them is in time to avert this catastrophe is preposterous. In other words, that was a great idea a hundred years ago, maybe even fifty years ago, but the population is just TOO fuckin big, and too many people will want to be exceptions, because they cannot overcome these drives. Simple. It's too fuckin late for people to choose. They had the choice when the sexual revolution happened, and they fucked it up.
Luci, I understand that it's a both a male and female thing, but in all reality something has to be done fast, and to my knowledge, there is no effective male pill. If there was, I'd be on it. The female's reproductive system for the moment is easier to regulate without causing complete permanent sterility. I personally find that to be less of a curse and more of a blessing. For guys, it's pretty much a one way trip.
Influx, you cannot teach MILLIONS of years of evolution out of people. That's why it HAS to be a biological factor. This has NOTHING to do with government. I cannot figure out how the fuck you equate the two together. The only thing that this is about controlling is the population growth rate of THE ENTIRE SPECIES, no discrimination, none, no exception, not no way, not no fucking how!!!! EVERYBODY. Governement implies that there are exceptions and target areas for this to be implemented, and I say no fucking way to that sort of thing. Don't paint me out to be some kind of nazi, cuz I ain't. The time to ask people to agree passed long ago cuz they can't and won't. Too many humans listen to their emotions and put them before logic. In almost every human I've ever encounterred, myself included, we ALL do to some degree. Emotion cannot be bargained with or overcome, so it has to be factored out of the equation by something that has nothing to do with emotion, logic, or choice, but could be simply a fact of life. Sure, it's sounds like control, because it is: DAMAGE CONTROL. Ethics, and education cannot be implemented fast enough planet-wide. And who the fuck are you or I to say what 'raised properly, with ethics" is to somebody who was raised in a different environment, under different conditions, with different teachers, and different experiences to teach them?
Quick group question, and please think about it honestly, even if you don't answer honestly. How many people do you know personally that planned and tried to have every single child they have ever had? How many of those children were unplanned?
Now as far as who decides who goes into study and who does not....I have no idea how to answer that question yet. I'm not enough of any sort of authority on what sanity is supposed to be to judge others in that respect, beyond knowing that there isn't a single human I have EVER encountered that isn't fucked up in at least some way. Population first then readjust the social interactions.
I'm not ignoring technology at all, in fact I'm counting on it. Later on, one would hope that a condition of the immortality pill/shot is sterility. If you're not dying, you don't need to make more of yourself. Why would it be limited to those who control? Why would it have to be? If one was immortal, why would they need to control anything? Now I could see that as an immortal, one might have to serve as an advisor periodically to help mortals who might choose to ignore past lessons and possibly create irreperable destruction within themselves and others, but beyond that... what need has one to control? I would hope that if such a thing is ever arrived at, one of the requirements to recieve this is a strict policy of non-interference, short of armageddon, and even then, simply advice. I dunno. I'm not immortal, and still struggle with the concept myself. It's not unforseeable, but just the responsibilities that would accompany such privelage are something that certainly requires consideration beyond the scope of normal life, as in achieving such status, one transcends nature.
"'Cause channeling the Loa takes a certain amount of dedication, and energy. Our Society does not support such behavior or talent in and of itself... so the artist, the medium, must sell his creations in order to earn a living. Must the Shaman starve in order to be useful? " -I believe I said this word for word, right down to the punctuation quite some time ago, here, not long after having reread Count Zero.
The solution I propose is one that does not involve pain, or killing, or war, or dicrimination, or economy, or any of that. It will simply work to reduce out population VERY quickly and let us still lead healthy, comfortable, 'prosperous', and less excessively fruitful lives. People CAN be wrong and are wrong. By being alive under the current conditions, if you are not growing all of your own food, if you are using money, creating ANY trash, using anything but what exists on your land and in your hunting/growing/gathering territory (enough for you and your family), then yes you are part of the problem, and so are your children. It's a fact of life. It's nothing personal, just a fact. I live in this society at this time, so I'm just as guilty.
In fact, none of this is personal. It's supposed to be as impersonal, impartial, non-violent, as well as solving the problems, one at a time.
So how does this relate to the destruction of the mass media, it's mind control effects, and the destruction of the music industry as it is? Complete restructure and prioritizing with less focus on material gain for selfish purposes, leaving those who create just for the sake of passionate creation with more access to resources due to current abilities of providence and efficiency of manufacture, current knowledge levels, combined with less material consumption, so more to go around for all concerned. Combine this with less need or capacity for greed, due to reduced consumption, and reconsideration of resources, and values, and I think you'll start to see the possiblities here.
Ape
Luci, I understand that it's a both a male and female thing, but in all reality something has to be done fast, and to my knowledge, there is no effective male pill. If there was, I'd be on it. The female's reproductive system for the moment is easier to regulate without causing complete permanent sterility. I personally find that to be less of a curse and more of a blessing. For guys, it's pretty much a one way trip.
Influx, you cannot teach MILLIONS of years of evolution out of people. That's why it HAS to be a biological factor. This has NOTHING to do with government. I cannot figure out how the fuck you equate the two together. The only thing that this is about controlling is the population growth rate of THE ENTIRE SPECIES, no discrimination, none, no exception, not no way, not no fucking how!!!! EVERYBODY. Governement implies that there are exceptions and target areas for this to be implemented, and I say no fucking way to that sort of thing. Don't paint me out to be some kind of nazi, cuz I ain't. The time to ask people to agree passed long ago cuz they can't and won't. Too many humans listen to their emotions and put them before logic. In almost every human I've ever encounterred, myself included, we ALL do to some degree. Emotion cannot be bargained with or overcome, so it has to be factored out of the equation by something that has nothing to do with emotion, logic, or choice, but could be simply a fact of life. Sure, it's sounds like control, because it is: DAMAGE CONTROL. Ethics, and education cannot be implemented fast enough planet-wide. And who the fuck are you or I to say what 'raised properly, with ethics" is to somebody who was raised in a different environment, under different conditions, with different teachers, and different experiences to teach them?
Quick group question, and please think about it honestly, even if you don't answer honestly. How many people do you know personally that planned and tried to have every single child they have ever had? How many of those children were unplanned?
Now as far as who decides who goes into study and who does not....I have no idea how to answer that question yet. I'm not enough of any sort of authority on what sanity is supposed to be to judge others in that respect, beyond knowing that there isn't a single human I have EVER encountered that isn't fucked up in at least some way. Population first then readjust the social interactions.
I'm not ignoring technology at all, in fact I'm counting on it. Later on, one would hope that a condition of the immortality pill/shot is sterility. If you're not dying, you don't need to make more of yourself. Why would it be limited to those who control? Why would it have to be? If one was immortal, why would they need to control anything? Now I could see that as an immortal, one might have to serve as an advisor periodically to help mortals who might choose to ignore past lessons and possibly create irreperable destruction within themselves and others, but beyond that... what need has one to control? I would hope that if such a thing is ever arrived at, one of the requirements to recieve this is a strict policy of non-interference, short of armageddon, and even then, simply advice. I dunno. I'm not immortal, and still struggle with the concept myself. It's not unforseeable, but just the responsibilities that would accompany such privelage are something that certainly requires consideration beyond the scope of normal life, as in achieving such status, one transcends nature.
"'Cause channeling the Loa takes a certain amount of dedication, and energy. Our Society does not support such behavior or talent in and of itself... so the artist, the medium, must sell his creations in order to earn a living. Must the Shaman starve in order to be useful? " -I believe I said this word for word, right down to the punctuation quite some time ago, here, not long after having reread Count Zero.
The solution I propose is one that does not involve pain, or killing, or war, or dicrimination, or economy, or any of that. It will simply work to reduce out population VERY quickly and let us still lead healthy, comfortable, 'prosperous', and less excessively fruitful lives. People CAN be wrong and are wrong. By being alive under the current conditions, if you are not growing all of your own food, if you are using money, creating ANY trash, using anything but what exists on your land and in your hunting/growing/gathering territory (enough for you and your family), then yes you are part of the problem, and so are your children. It's a fact of life. It's nothing personal, just a fact. I live in this society at this time, so I'm just as guilty.
In fact, none of this is personal. It's supposed to be as impersonal, impartial, non-violent, as well as solving the problems, one at a time.
So how does this relate to the destruction of the mass media, it's mind control effects, and the destruction of the music industry as it is? Complete restructure and prioritizing with less focus on material gain for selfish purposes, leaving those who create just for the sake of passionate creation with more access to resources due to current abilities of providence and efficiency of manufacture, current knowledge levels, combined with less material consumption, so more to go around for all concerned. Combine this with less need or capacity for greed, due to reduced consumption, and reconsideration of resources, and values, and I think you'll start to see the possiblities here.
Ape
Message 49/53 10-May-03 @ 12:43 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Pongoid... that's f+ggin' bizarre man. I would not steal your words.. I'd a quoted them, yo! Whatever you think of me you gotta know that about me by now!
Wierd... if it is indeed so similar. I often agree with your take on sh+t, that's not so strange... but even if the wording is similar, I do not think we are SOOOOO much alike as that!
any idea what the thread was called? I'd like to see it!
e
Wierd... if it is indeed so similar. I often agree with your take on sh+t, that's not so strange... but even if the wording is similar, I do not think we are SOOOOO much alike as that!
any idea what the thread was called? I'd like to see it!
e
Message 50/53 10-May-03 @ 12:52 AM - RE: Destroy All Media
Hmmmm... decent argument, BTW... I've nothing to say that doesn't support it.
It's just that I'm not convinced that shrinking the population will change attitudes one Iota!
It would, however minimize our IMPACT on the planet and each other, so it's not all bad, is it?
I may be with you on that point. And, if there were a concerted effort to insure that children were raised with certain values from there... yeah! But that brings us back to your VERY GOOD point that you and I (or anyone else) are not qualified to decide what those ways are. So...
e
It's just that I'm not convinced that shrinking the population will change attitudes one Iota!
It would, however minimize our IMPACT on the planet and each other, so it's not all bad, is it?
I may be with you on that point. And, if there were a concerted effort to insure that children were raised with certain values from there... yeah! But that brings us back to your VERY GOOD point that you and I (or anyone else) are not qualified to decide what those ways are. So...
e
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
There are 53 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
