 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - Music techology
Subject: Gina & VST in the real world
Original Message 1/18 01-Apr-98 @ 10:41 AM - Gina & VST in the real world
well, I met my first GINA yesterday...... my mate Barry Ryan (he and his brother wrote Eloise etc...y'know... The Damned did a cover of it amongst others.....)....anyhow, Barry just bought a P2-266 and a Gina and the upgraded VST with inserts...... so off I went..... as Barry notoriously looses the wiring set-up plan I made him, and when he moves his kit, I get to go over and set it up all over again !!.....
Anyhow..... Very well built that GINA....... but the PC...oh deary me.....
He got it for about 800 (UK) with no monitor...... with 64mb s-dram...... anyhow...I arrived to find Barry hammering away on his 02/W PRO.... and the resulting returning midid data triggering the modules with midi delay effect repeats.....Ok..... straight into VST and turn off the midi delay effect..... then it suddenly crashed ..!!... hmmmmmm....... every time VST opened, and he hit a key.... VST crashed.... after which if re-opened, no midi IN would be recieved...... we were going mental !!..... anyhow..... first things first.... first up I noticed that the system had all the yellow question marks up on the PCI controllers etc..... hmmmm........ now I've just finished building a 200mmx machine with udma support and s-dram.... and had the same thing........ It's the new INTEL chipsets..... I thought it was restricted to TX sets.... but Barry's got the LX..... same thing.... the guy who built it, basically hadn't added the drivers..... probably, cos when you do.... it crashes the whole system.... (I know.... I spent ages with this one)....... so I basically removed all the hardware except the video card..... then set-up the drivers from a cd which was in the motherboard box...... had to reinstall the cdrom drivers, and remove all the MSCDEX references from Config.sys, and the Autoexec.bat.... IF in the future you need to access the cdrom in DOS, you have to reinstall the MSCDEX from a standard mitsumi atapi driver disk..... anyhow... I persuaded Barruy to let me basically re-build the fucking thing, cos I HATE fucking around with other proples bodge-jobs....... anyway.... finally installed all the drivers....... and then noticed the UDMA support wasn't added as the rive setup in th bios was left on AUTO and AUTO...... I redid it as USER - LBA mode..... and off we went..... first up..... re-installed the MPU-401.... and in it went..... then re-installed VST....... same fucking MIDI crash every time a key was hit on the keyboard..... hmmmmm...... ok...... it was the EFFECT.DLL in VST MODULE dir that was the cause..... so I basically cut it out and pasted it into a new folder for future use.... after that for some stange reason VST was fine with the midi in....... ok..... next GINA.....
Installed like a dream..... straight in.... no problemo...... It's a very well built unit.... the outboard box is WELL-solid in a heavy duty steel case, and the 1/4 inch jacks plug in to it with a solid 'Clunk'.... nice and reassuring...... the connecting 'Screened' cable that links it to the pci card is VERY, VERY thick.....
Ok the cable may have alot of sheilding, but fuck-me !!.... trying to route in in the desired direction from the pc to the break-out box was like wrestling with a bloody great killer python like in one of those crapppy 'lost-world' sci-fi movies.... !!.... I tell you... it's got a life of it's own.!!......
anyhow...eventually i beat it into submission.... and after dramatically plunging my dagger into it a few times (whilst underwater of course, so the blood is more visible !!).... it obeyed, and I managed to get it to run around to the LEFT side of the pc, and meet up with the break-out box !!.......
It's a very quiet card system.... (after we moved the pc screen away from the mixer !!!!).... I tell you what... those Allen & Heath little mixers are NOT well sheilded... it was picking up so much interference from the screen, that with everything unplugged and headphones plugged in, it sounded like....well, like something extremely noisey and horrible..... ok, once the screen was moved away, it ceased, but still kicked off every-time my mobile phone rang.....
anyhow..... Gina installed.... VST re-installed and the offending effect.dll removed, and off we went..... BUT.....
I still noticed that even with a P2-266 and 64mb of s-dram, there was a noticable glitch in timing tempo if i went to record some midi from the master keyboard.....still gotta get into messing with vst to try to get that sorted...... I mean..... It was fine once you played back...... but there was a skip or glitch in the clock/metronome tempo when you hit the first note sent to vst........we didn't have time to sort it last night, as by the time i got it rebuilt, it was midnight....... but all in all very efficient....... no glitching when moving data whilst playing, and the WAVES pluggin compressor module was great on the vocal takes we made...... it's a really nice plug-in I think..... We inserted it into the signal path with the new INSERT mode in the latest VST..... very efficient.......
Anyhow.... all i can say is..... the GINA is ok....... well worth the dosh.... and if anyone's interested, Barry has now for sale...... a DAL card D..... and AWE-32....and a DB50-XG...... anyhow........ I'm gonna get over there to do some more experiments on VST.....and I've also recommended that we get an AGP graphics card installed.....there's apparently some problem with the Matrox millenium and the newest Active-X drivers that VST needs............ I'll keep you posted.....
and one last thing..... Barry had a few more tales about Steinbergs legendary Technical support...... (hahahahaaahahaahha..choke splutter!!!!)....... I tell you... I'm gonna call up Steinberg, and challenge them to be interviewd about this dismal state of affairs... cos.......... does anyone have a GOOD experience with their tech support ?? ??.......
Anyhow..... Very well built that GINA....... but the PC...oh deary me.....
He got it for about 800 (UK) with no monitor...... with 64mb s-dram...... anyhow...I arrived to find Barry hammering away on his 02/W PRO.... and the resulting returning midid data triggering the modules with midi delay effect repeats.....Ok..... straight into VST and turn off the midi delay effect..... then it suddenly crashed ..!!... hmmmmmm....... every time VST opened, and he hit a key.... VST crashed.... after which if re-opened, no midi IN would be recieved...... we were going mental !!..... anyhow..... first things first.... first up I noticed that the system had all the yellow question marks up on the PCI controllers etc..... hmmmm........ now I've just finished building a 200mmx machine with udma support and s-dram.... and had the same thing........ It's the new INTEL chipsets..... I thought it was restricted to TX sets.... but Barry's got the LX..... same thing.... the guy who built it, basically hadn't added the drivers..... probably, cos when you do.... it crashes the whole system.... (I know.... I spent ages with this one)....... so I basically removed all the hardware except the video card..... then set-up the drivers from a cd which was in the motherboard box...... had to reinstall the cdrom drivers, and remove all the MSCDEX references from Config.sys, and the Autoexec.bat.... IF in the future you need to access the cdrom in DOS, you have to reinstall the MSCDEX from a standard mitsumi atapi driver disk..... anyhow... I persuaded Barruy to let me basically re-build the fucking thing, cos I HATE fucking around with other proples bodge-jobs....... anyway.... finally installed all the drivers....... and then noticed the UDMA support wasn't added as the rive setup in th bios was left on AUTO and AUTO...... I redid it as USER - LBA mode..... and off we went..... first up..... re-installed the MPU-401.... and in it went..... then re-installed VST....... same fucking MIDI crash every time a key was hit on the keyboard..... hmmmmm...... ok...... it was the EFFECT.DLL in VST MODULE dir that was the cause..... so I basically cut it out and pasted it into a new folder for future use.... after that for some stange reason VST was fine with the midi in....... ok..... next GINA.....
Installed like a dream..... straight in.... no problemo...... It's a very well built unit.... the outboard box is WELL-solid in a heavy duty steel case, and the 1/4 inch jacks plug in to it with a solid 'Clunk'.... nice and reassuring...... the connecting 'Screened' cable that links it to the pci card is VERY, VERY thick.....
Ok the cable may have alot of sheilding, but fuck-me !!.... trying to route in in the desired direction from the pc to the break-out box was like wrestling with a bloody great killer python like in one of those crapppy 'lost-world' sci-fi movies.... !!.... I tell you... it's got a life of it's own.!!......
anyhow...eventually i beat it into submission.... and after dramatically plunging my dagger into it a few times (whilst underwater of course, so the blood is more visible !!).... it obeyed, and I managed to get it to run around to the LEFT side of the pc, and meet up with the break-out box !!.......
It's a very quiet card system.... (after we moved the pc screen away from the mixer !!!!).... I tell you what... those Allen & Heath little mixers are NOT well sheilded... it was picking up so much interference from the screen, that with everything unplugged and headphones plugged in, it sounded like....well, like something extremely noisey and horrible..... ok, once the screen was moved away, it ceased, but still kicked off every-time my mobile phone rang.....
anyhow..... Gina installed.... VST re-installed and the offending effect.dll removed, and off we went..... BUT.....
I still noticed that even with a P2-266 and 64mb of s-dram, there was a noticable glitch in timing tempo if i went to record some midi from the master keyboard.....still gotta get into messing with vst to try to get that sorted...... I mean..... It was fine once you played back...... but there was a skip or glitch in the clock/metronome tempo when you hit the first note sent to vst........we didn't have time to sort it last night, as by the time i got it rebuilt, it was midnight....... but all in all very efficient....... no glitching when moving data whilst playing, and the WAVES pluggin compressor module was great on the vocal takes we made...... it's a really nice plug-in I think..... We inserted it into the signal path with the new INSERT mode in the latest VST..... very efficient.......
Anyhow.... all i can say is..... the GINA is ok....... well worth the dosh.... and if anyone's interested, Barry has now for sale...... a DAL card D..... and AWE-32....and a DB50-XG...... anyhow........ I'm gonna get over there to do some more experiments on VST.....and I've also recommended that we get an AGP graphics card installed.....there's apparently some problem with the Matrox millenium and the newest Active-X drivers that VST needs............ I'll keep you posted.....
and one last thing..... Barry had a few more tales about Steinbergs legendary Technical support...... (hahahahaaahahaahha..choke splutter!!!!)....... I tell you... I'm gonna call up Steinberg, and challenge them to be interviewd about this dismal state of affairs... cos.......... does anyone have a GOOD experience with their tech support ?? ??.......
Message 2/18 02-Apr-98 @ 12:19 PM - RE: Gina & VST in the real world
Hi!
hey man..... its really live... your story.. can remember of something like this last summer, when IŽve built up a PC for my friend.
And your experience with Steinberg-support: its pointless to contact them, youŽll never get any support except a standard feedback-mail that they will contact you later and that you have to be patient.
Have a look at my homepage: http://home.t-online.de/home/Clemens.Kurtz
There is a Midi-and-Recording hotline.........
Ciao
Clemens
hey man..... its really live... your story.. can remember of something like this last summer, when IŽve built up a PC for my friend.
And your experience with Steinberg-support: its pointless to contact them, youŽll never get any support except a standard feedback-mail that they will contact you later and that you have to be patient.
Have a look at my homepage: http://home.t-online.de/home/Clemens.Kurtz
There is a Midi-and-Recording hotline.........
Ciao
Clemens
Message 3/18 02-Apr-98 @ 02:15 PM - RE: Gina & VST in the real world
Cubase + VST = nice combo, hopefully the asio driver and new control panel for the Gina will be ready soon.
Message 4/18 02-Apr-98 @ 06:28 PM - RE: Gina & VST in the real world
ACTUALLY, i TALKED WITH STEINBERG TODAY, and i was invited to Hamburg !!....... I'm gonna build them a demo chat area like this....... I basically spent some time talking about their bad support... etc etc.... and suggested that with such a forum, alot of questions are answered by other users who already fixed the problem...... so they get extra free unpaid tech support staff !!!!..... heh heh..... I also siad it would be good to sho3w to the public that maybe they were taking some steps to 'Open things up' a bit etc........
the guy i talked to also suggested i go to a music computer conference in Amsterdam in July.... and he'd get me on the list of exhibitors....... we'll see what transpires...... the Steinberg chat area will be up soon....... whether they decide to go with it or not remains to be seen........
the guy i talked to also suggested i go to a music computer conference in Amsterdam in July.... and he'd get me on the list of exhibitors....... we'll see what transpires...... the Steinberg chat area will be up soon....... whether they decide to go with it or not remains to be seen........
Message 5/18 03-Apr-98 @ 03:35 AM - RE: Gina & VST in the real world
oh, look at kilo, shakin' all the fuckin' connex 'round. "Maybe if I'm ever a hooked-up mother fucker like Kilo Steinberg'll give ME support."
Message 6/18 03-Apr-98 @ 01:52 PM - RE: Gina & VST in the real world
actually.... i spent several minutes telling the guy that thier support had the worst reputation of any music gear company...... so bollox :-)
Incidently....... I talked to my mate today since i did his machine..... and he's been working on it every day, getting an easy 8 tracks....... that is ok for a current 800 quid PC plus Gina & VST cost........ total = about 1500-1600 squids !!......now that is well ok for a vst set-up.... it compares well with a dedicated hardware unit
Incidently.... the new ASUS M'Boards that are available to support the P2 chips has the new Adaptec 8080 scsi III controller on baord...... Western Dig Ultr-wide scsi 4.3gb is now about 420 quid........ and the 9.3gb is about 550....... VERY cost effective if you need more tracks.....
just get a 2gb boot drive, and either the 4.3 or 9.3 ultra-wide and you're off........ a cheap way to get higher track rates if 8 or more isn't enuff.........
so......... we mustn't forget that a basic P machine with a decent stereo soundcard and an older single-card-only s/w is still with some external kit if neccessary a viable system to get master product.....VST and s/w's of that ilk are really luxury products........ a basic pc is fine to get storming tracks........ christ... I know of guys that were putting out Jungle tracks 2 years ago using a dx-266 with saw 4 track..... and that is all !!!!.......
Incidently....... I talked to my mate today since i did his machine..... and he's been working on it every day, getting an easy 8 tracks....... that is ok for a current 800 quid PC plus Gina & VST cost........ total = about 1500-1600 squids !!......now that is well ok for a vst set-up.... it compares well with a dedicated hardware unit
Incidently.... the new ASUS M'Boards that are available to support the P2 chips has the new Adaptec 8080 scsi III controller on baord...... Western Dig Ultr-wide scsi 4.3gb is now about 420 quid........ and the 9.3gb is about 550....... VERY cost effective if you need more tracks.....
just get a 2gb boot drive, and either the 4.3 or 9.3 ultra-wide and you're off........ a cheap way to get higher track rates if 8 or more isn't enuff.........
so......... we mustn't forget that a basic P machine with a decent stereo soundcard and an older single-card-only s/w is still with some external kit if neccessary a viable system to get master product.....VST and s/w's of that ilk are really luxury products........ a basic pc is fine to get storming tracks........ christ... I know of guys that were putting out Jungle tracks 2 years ago using a dx-266 with saw 4 track..... and that is all !!!!.......
Message 7/18 20-Apr-98 @ 09:09 AM - RE: Gina & VST in the real world
(20/4/98).latest update.... different machine.... MMX p200... spec's below.......
The VST saga continues..... so.....(20/4/98)
tweaked around with the mouse, and audio card drivers (Tahiti).... and was working ok, with lot's of lock-type crashes at 65,000 clours resolution......... the midi just hanging and the screen locked....usually when trying to edit an audio wave or tweak midi, while playing.... well, I just ran it at 800 X 600, 16 bit colour.... and it is fine... it's crashed once in the last 4 hours.....and this was when i introduced the 9 + 10 audio tracks, and was trying to tweak something edit-audio-wise within a window as it played....... previous to this, I'd been getting cocky enuff to save the Song while the track was playing !!.... I mean !!..... $ hours with no crash !!....i nearly passed out !...
there's 10 tracks going.... with assorted eq on 1 stereo & 2 mono tracks..., and fx on 1 stereo track & 3 mono tracks....including reverb (the vst Wunderverb), & a ping-pong stereo delay (the free one.. it's great !...apart from one thing..... it's the same with all the vst Fx... and it;s shite... You HAVE to try to twidle the stupid knob, to set the delay time... SAD !!... I want to be able to get EXACTLY 243 MS delay... not the nearest time the knob will default to !!!...)...
I've just been creating little lines with the basstation, then recording it to vst while midi plays it !... not a glitch !... honestly... anyway... loop the audio, then re-set etc... I've got about 3 basstation loops going ... (just wanted to use the one model as it's all experiment...)....
also got a rebirth drum loop going, and 3 DB50XG tracks... Bassline, organ riff, and kit... oh yeas.. and this dual sitar sound.... made with a horn patch, and a xylophone patch (!?)... yeah yeah... but it's sounds ok real quick.....
well, it seems to be going ok... I need to convert some audio to mono, cos it's defaulting to stereo when i record... but all in all.... I've even done snare & kik drum rolls in the track, with single kik & snare samples... edited...laid out, then glued-together into a new 4 beat or 8 beat (2 bar) sequence .... for loops and drum hits.... it's pretty much as good as a sample to do basic stuff....
the little basstation is coming up good because despite being a mono-synth, it's got a polyphonic keyboard, with velocity... so it's great to just sit on your lap, and tap out some patterns.... then set up & tweak the sound, then record it to audio.... no glitching when playing in or recording the audio , either when playing audio in live... or (i was more impressed by theis)... setting up a midi loop, then setting the cursor with NO silent lead-in.... as soon as the clock counts in, it's straight into record, and the midi fires of the novation, and the audio records first bar take !..... that impressed me.... and playback was perfect first time.... then open the fx rack, add a touch of delay.... off we go again.....
when I set a few more bitz up, It'll be a dream to add the Emax to this.... to get a bit of raw 12 bit sampling.... I can bring the external mix, into the outgoing VST & DB50XG mix, with the tahiti s/w mixer... (similar to MS Mixer ....).... no worries... and monitoring on the little Aiwa 20 watt plastic PC speakers with the loudness switch in...
It sounds 100%..... Honestly.... best bit of monitoring for ages... i really like those little akai's....
Anyway.... P200 MMX.... QDI Titanium P51430TX IB M'board , with 64 mb s-dram..... 3.5 fujitsu udma boot.... 4.3 wd udma caviar audio... crappy ATI graphics Pro-Turbo 64 PCI....ADI monitor... Tahiti card set to IRQ 9....
Busmaster, primary & secondary EIDE conrollers on 14 & 15...... network card (D-Link) on 10......Mouse on 12.....Floppy controller on 6 ..... keyboard on 1.....
next I'm gonna fiddle with the Interupts some more , and I'd love to get it up to 128 mb... that'd be interesting....
anyways..... so far, it's a 20 track piece....up to 200 4/4 bars at 140 bpm so far........ with maximum piece of audio as a 4 bar loop or piece... .. 10 audio tracks.... pretty rock solid timing.... 10 midi tracks.... no glitching on record, of audio or midi .... records easy while playing out midi & audio.....
I'll keep you posted....on this and the Gina one..... Me and the Guy who owns it are going to do a track for A german label owned by BMG....it's meant to be a chart single.... so i'll keep you posted of the progress, cos we're doing it on the P2 266......(it's causing a bit of bother....
read again this VGA kills.TXT file.... cos it fixed his matrox problem.....
VGA-KILLS TXT FILE
The VST saga continues..... so.....(20/4/98)
tweaked around with the mouse, and audio card drivers (Tahiti).... and was working ok, with lot's of lock-type crashes at 65,000 clours resolution......... the midi just hanging and the screen locked....usually when trying to edit an audio wave or tweak midi, while playing.... well, I just ran it at 800 X 600, 16 bit colour.... and it is fine... it's crashed once in the last 4 hours.....and this was when i introduced the 9 + 10 audio tracks, and was trying to tweak something edit-audio-wise within a window as it played....... previous to this, I'd been getting cocky enuff to save the Song while the track was playing !!.... I mean !!..... $ hours with no crash !!....i nearly passed out !...
there's 10 tracks going.... with assorted eq on 1 stereo & 2 mono tracks..., and fx on 1 stereo track & 3 mono tracks....including reverb (the vst Wunderverb), & a ping-pong stereo delay (the free one.. it's great !...apart from one thing..... it's the same with all the vst Fx... and it;s shite... You HAVE to try to twidle the stupid knob, to set the delay time... SAD !!... I want to be able to get EXACTLY 243 MS delay... not the nearest time the knob will default to !!!...)...
I've just been creating little lines with the basstation, then recording it to vst while midi plays it !... not a glitch !... honestly... anyway... loop the audio, then re-set etc... I've got about 3 basstation loops going ... (just wanted to use the one model as it's all experiment...)....
also got a rebirth drum loop going, and 3 DB50XG tracks... Bassline, organ riff, and kit... oh yeas.. and this dual sitar sound.... made with a horn patch, and a xylophone patch (!?)... yeah yeah... but it's sounds ok real quick.....
well, it seems to be going ok... I need to convert some audio to mono, cos it's defaulting to stereo when i record... but all in all.... I've even done snare & kik drum rolls in the track, with single kik & snare samples... edited...laid out, then glued-together into a new 4 beat or 8 beat (2 bar) sequence .... for loops and drum hits.... it's pretty much as good as a sample to do basic stuff....
the little basstation is coming up good because despite being a mono-synth, it's got a polyphonic keyboard, with velocity... so it's great to just sit on your lap, and tap out some patterns.... then set up & tweak the sound, then record it to audio.... no glitching when playing in or recording the audio , either when playing audio in live... or (i was more impressed by theis)... setting up a midi loop, then setting the cursor with NO silent lead-in.... as soon as the clock counts in, it's straight into record, and the midi fires of the novation, and the audio records first bar take !..... that impressed me.... and playback was perfect first time.... then open the fx rack, add a touch of delay.... off we go again.....
when I set a few more bitz up, It'll be a dream to add the Emax to this.... to get a bit of raw 12 bit sampling.... I can bring the external mix, into the outgoing VST & DB50XG mix, with the tahiti s/w mixer... (similar to MS Mixer ....).... no worries... and monitoring on the little Aiwa 20 watt plastic PC speakers with the loudness switch in...
It sounds 100%..... Honestly.... best bit of monitoring for ages... i really like those little akai's....
Anyway.... P200 MMX.... QDI Titanium P51430TX IB M'board , with 64 mb s-dram..... 3.5 fujitsu udma boot.... 4.3 wd udma caviar audio... crappy ATI graphics Pro-Turbo 64 PCI....ADI monitor... Tahiti card set to IRQ 9....
Busmaster, primary & secondary EIDE conrollers on 14 & 15...... network card (D-Link) on 10......Mouse on 12.....Floppy controller on 6 ..... keyboard on 1.....
next I'm gonna fiddle with the Interupts some more , and I'd love to get it up to 128 mb... that'd be interesting....
anyways..... so far, it's a 20 track piece....up to 200 4/4 bars at 140 bpm so far........ with maximum piece of audio as a 4 bar loop or piece... .. 10 audio tracks.... pretty rock solid timing.... 10 midi tracks.... no glitching on record, of audio or midi .... records easy while playing out midi & audio.....
I'll keep you posted....on this and the Gina one..... Me and the Guy who owns it are going to do a track for A german label owned by BMG....it's meant to be a chart single.... so i'll keep you posted of the progress, cos we're doing it on the P2 266......(it's causing a bit of bother....
read again this VGA kills.TXT file.... cos it fixed his matrox problem.....
VGA-KILLS TXT FILE
Message 8/18 20-Apr-98 @ 09:11 AM - RE: Gina & VST in the real world
WHOOPS.... THAT FILE SEEMS TO BE DISAPPEARED.... i'll get it back in the server.....
Message 9/18 20-Apr-98 @ 09:30 AM - RE: Gina & VST in the real world
here it is..... check this out about re-setting your vga card.... and try running your music stuff at 800x600 anyway.... it's designed to run at that rate...
Message 10/18 20-Apr-98 @ 11:51 PM - RE: Gina & VST in the real world
Hey Kilo--
Is cubase able to access the 8 individual outputs of the Gina card?
Is cubase able to access the 8 individual outputs of the Gina card?
Pages: 1 2
There are 18 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
