Forums - Music techology
Subject: We wanna go LIVE!!!
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Original Message 1/30 25-Aug-04 @ 02:19 PM Edit: 25-Aug-04 | 02:24 PM - We wanna go LIVE!!!
I've done some research, I've sat and talked with our guys and it looks like despite all of my cynicism, we're *seriously* considering the use of a lappy, buying in Live V4, our man Jam on VDrums, our double bassist and of course the darkstate vocalists as the core of a live setup...
From what I've read, Live V4 *could* be a good way to get the bulk of our studio heavy sound out there for "live" re-sequencing on stage. This would be a massive boost to getting rehearsals underway without having to dismantle the studio each time, convert those Cubase SX projects back to midi data (to be read by, say, my P2500's onboard sequencer etc.)..
The idea will be to move the core audio clips from our project across into Live for re-sequencing on the fly on stage (after many rehearsals with it and the other darkstate musicians that is)..
Naturally, the stability of a laptop, WinXP and Live itself is a BIG concern to me but with each and every day now, I'm hearing that it IS viable provided you take some (fairly commonsense) precautions - vibration damping, stripped bear XP build, no crap installed, audio solution with mature drivers - like say, an Echo Indigo - etc..
Of course, despite all that I *still* don't trust PCs completely which is where a 2nd identical system running all of the appropriate audio with its own copy of Live (sync'd to the first but muted during the set) would provide redundancy.. since we haven't got the budget for two tasty laptops then the redundancy would be performed by a spare high-specced mini tower that we do have available to us - setup properly on stage too (same vibration protection etc) but out of the way and only as a LAST resort..
After all my rambling, my thoughts and questions to you fine people is this...
1) Will this work?
2) Is the 2nd machine overkill - despite the fact we won't be in any position to have a 2nd laptop (which would be the ideal portable redundancy solution IMO)
3) Just how good and more importanly STABLE is Ableton Live on the PC?
4) Anyone have any anecdotes for doing anything like this (or any live users out there?)
5) I know a lot of hedz fly by the seat of their pants or SWEAR on hardware only setups for just the very reason that its more "immediate" and reliable - but this is the angle we're aiming for so advice on this tack is gratefully appreciated...
Message 2/30 25-Aug-04 @ 03:10 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
It does look interesting, the 'scene' management and MIDI playback and automation certainly look interesting from a live angle, certainly easier than loading MIDI files into a hardware seq.
I like the workflow for arrangement too, I couldn't see myself using it for the entire music making process but it could certainly breath a bit of fresh air and variety into the mix.
It's gonna take me a while to get to grips with it, it's quite a different way of working (a mix between a tracker, Acid and a full blown DAW ) but it certainly gives you enough help with the info box which explains anything you hover the mouse over, the tutorials are pretty comprehensive too.
I'm interested to hear from any experienced Live users.
Message 3/30 25-Aug-04 @ 03:37 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
good!
i think this could work well for your situation.
i'm trying to remember whether live has ever crashed on me. i know it had slowed and become unstable on my old g3 when i was pushing it hard but it was only a 266.
other than that i don't recall it ever crashing. it sails on my g4.
my suggestion would be to use the tower pc to drive the most basic root track....just in case anything tragic should occur with the laptop. this way....were you to lose your "jam" pc during play, you have some element of a track surviving...which...
in said emergency you can rush up a second rescue track which brings the main elements back into play....perhaps by having all elements appear on one send track which is easily unmuted.
a second member would have to be versed in how to hit this track so you could focus on rebooting the laptop ("jam" pc).
of course....always have some sideshow comedy strip-tease routine ready to keep the audience amused as you get ready to fade the entire set back to life...were a fade-out deemed necessary.
but i don't think it'd come to that.....not from what i've heard and not from my own experiences. then again i'm not syncing 2 units together either.
i think the issue would become is it possible to reboot...with option to slave to master and re-engage set midstream without sending some hiccup signal to the master tower pc.
i've always been a big believer in the pre-mixed cd, especially for emergencies.
hitting play is easy enough and you'll never have a sync problem.
it would seem feasible that a lock-up in the master pc could cause the "jam" pc to lock-up as well.
but again...i think your environment with live 4 would be more stable than that.....
however.....never say never.
be prepared and good luck!!!
Message 4/30 25-Aug-04 @ 04:08 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
As for keeping things going in the event of a PC disaster, we've got our drummer and bass player (who should really lock together real tight anyway if we've done our rehearsals) to keep things sweet - not to mention the vocalists too..Which means I probably wouldn't even need to "sync" the backup PC, just have it ready to run for triggering clips if needed..
(Then the "jam" laptop can be rebooted in the background.. and around and around we go)
Message 5/30 25-Aug-04 @ 06:36 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Ape
Message 6/30 25-Aug-04 @ 08:10 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
I've been playing live electronic music for 10 years... I've always been a BIG critic of computer's on stage, for all of the obvious reasons (Hard Disk skip, instabilities, inflexible performance) but LIVE has me comin' around...
It's been just over a year since my live set... seems the older I get and the less connected to the "kids" I am, the less venues are available, and the less interested I am in making a bunch of pill munching little kids happy... but that's my own personal trip. I am getting my kit together for solo performance and I'm going to be using a combo of LIVE 4 (been playing with it for a few weeks and I've been EXTREMELY impressed, no crashes, glitches or problems and Live MIDI is great!!!) on a laptop and a HW sequencer driving a couple of mods and a sampler...
I've already done some dry runs of complete live sets with no breaks between trax and it's all gone very smoothly...
seems the more time I spend with LIVE the better it is... there's so much hands on manipulation with v4... and honestly, I've never been excited about playback in live sets, I'm a big fan of making a performance different and interesting, not just regurgitation of my studio work... (just throw on a cd if you're going to do that) and I'm really happy with how much on the fly work I can do with LIVEv4...
but it's gotta be v4 man... LIVE up until the latest was really JUST a sample playback program... made live sets smooth but not too interesting...
e
Message 7/30 25-Aug-04 @ 08:47 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Ive seen it done on more than a few occasions, and havent seen a single problem yet.
people running both mac and PC
I think pongoid's got it spot on: youre gonna have a backup band anyway! I dont think the second box is necessary really, but making sure the laptop is stripped and running perfectly is. Ive no doubt you can take care of that.
and the "get it to boot quickly" thing is key as well!
Message 8/30 26-Aug-04 @ 09:06 AM Edit: 26-Aug-04 | 09:09 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
The key thing on my mind is to get into the practise room with the guys and get our shit tight as a nun's chuff!! Get on with the live sequencing using the new lappy and Live, getting a backup CD/MD prepared and knowing how to work that into the set should the very worst happen etc.
The idea was never to regurgitate the studio work on stage - I don't see the point of that myself - but with the guys and girls playing and singing too, I wanna add in the key sonic elements that personify our tracks using the lappy (and something like Live), rather than gigging a whole bunch of kit plus the necessary outboard - which i don't have masses of anyways...
Hoping to hook up with 0dB and have a play with his demo ver., check out what he's been doing.. Hardware wise, I've been looking at "Audio laptops" sold by the main music tech vendors here (DV, Phil Rees, Inta etc.), and to be honest the prices are fairly competitive to lappy's sold by "normal" PC hardware retailers - I'm always hearing that these laptops are configured for the musician but if this just means the software only, then bollocks to that coz I can configure it meself.. IF however the laptops themselves (cases/hardware) are more musician focussed (extra anti vibration in the case etc. - which I very much doubt) then I might.. otherwise may as well just buy a well specc'd one from a normal retailer.
So far, leading the list price/performance-wise is an AMD "Athlon 64 3000+ DTR" based laptop (1Gb Ram, 60Gb hdd), perhaps using something established like the Echo Indigo DJ for audio hardware duties (gotta keep moderately budget conscious so USB2/Firewire multi i/o boxes are out of the pricerange at the mo)
Message 9/30 26-Aug-04 @ 12:11 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
less chance of playing out of tune
"drummers tip over drums, break sticks, drop sticks, whatever;..."
speaks for itself
Seriously good luck Marc! Sounds great! If you don't do it cuz something might fo wrong you'll regret it. If something goes wrong you can deal with it at that moment. Prepare for the worst. Perform the best.
Message 10/30 27-Aug-04 @ 09:47 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Ape
Message 11/30 31-Aug-04 @ 09:28 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Message 12/30 09-Sep-04 @ 04:22 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Now I just need to find me about £1500 squids for the lappy, indigo soundcard and Live full version.. YEAH BABY!!!
Message 13/30 10-Sep-04 @ 06:35 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
y a mekiN me angry.
Message 15/30 10-Sep-04 @ 11:27 AM Edit: 10-Sep-04 | 11:28 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Whassup Clay, ya not a LIVE fan? I'm just a newcomer to it meself (just playing with the demo ver) but I'm impressed with what it does for what we need - still using SX2.2 for the actual production but I reckon Live is where its at for what we need on stage... time will tell of coz!
Message 16/30 10-Sep-04 @ 03:47 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Message 17/30 10-Sep-04 @ 09:59 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Ape
Message 18/30 11-Sep-04 @ 12:07 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Live 4... yeah... me too, me too.
have fun with it, DS... but as the man says... shut up and get to work. hehehe
e
Message 19/30 11-Sep-04 @ 05:38 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
go get "em !
or whatever
Message 20/30 13-Sep-04 @ 09:16 AM Edit: 13-Sep-04 | 09:25 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
SO GIMME A BREAK OKAY?! I'M EXCITED!!!!
Thanks for the kind words all (and the offers of info - will be MUCH appreciated in the months to come)
I'm under no misconceptions about how much work its gonna take - I'm fully prepared for that. If I can get and keep my focus in the studio during years of recording and shit, then I'd like to think I can apply some of that to doing what I've been hoping to do for some time.. finding the "right" tools for what I wanna do, and more importantly *understanding* what it is I/we wanna do was only part of the battle... Now I am gonna shut it and get to work...
..watch this space!
Message 21/30 13-Sep-04 @ 11:54 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Message 22/30 13-Sep-04 @ 01:40 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Seriously, I haven't forgotten it - just trying to line up a young lady who will do it justice!! Bear with me bro'..
Message 23/30 13-Sep-04 @ 05:33 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Message 24/30 15-Sep-04 @ 05:42 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
I think it's great how he managed to get that Xylaphone line into the chorus, and the Elephants stampeding sample he's got during the end is genius. Not sure about the bagpipes throughout but each to his own. .
Message 25/30 16-Sep-04 @ 02:38 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Message 26/30 16-Sep-04 @ 10:45 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
well guess what... i wont have time to give you shit about it for few more weeks looks like (eek), so better sort out those bagpipes mate!!!
Message 27/30 17-Sep-04 @ 09:57 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Message 28/30 17-Sep-04 @ 10:57 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Message 29/30 07-Dec-04 @ 11:08 AM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
Now I've got two perfectly good midi controllers which work well enough and I'd be loth to sell them... AND I wanna BCF2000 (strictly for the studio not live work!)
But as I'm using Live now........
Shit must stop being a gear whore!!!
Message 30/30 07-Dec-04 @ 12:21 PM - RE: We wanna go LIVE!!!
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