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Forums - Computer music & technology
Subject: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
Viewing all 16 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2
Original Message 1/16 24-Jan-99 @ 12:32 AM - Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
That's what I wonder...
Message 2/16 24-Jan-99 @ 02:37 AM - Well, I'll tell you why...
I've heard the aps and the yamaha xg1000 card. And ya know what? There ain't much difference. Sure, the aps has some sounds that are better than the Yamaha, but it's vice versa too. It's apples and oranges.
Truth is, if you want the killer sounds, ya gotta spend the money and get a synth box like the roland jv2080 or kurzweil. The cards are good, but not quite up to the high end level yet...
Mr. Realist
Truth is, if you want the killer sounds, ya gotta spend the money and get a synth box like the roland jv2080 or kurzweil. The cards are good, but not quite up to the high end level yet...
Mr. Realist
Message 3/16 24-Jan-99 @ 03:04 AM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
The APS just sounds as good as the samples you load into it, while the XG1000 is stuck to its ROM sample pool. Even more the APS is capable of producing 16 simultanous stereo effects(!)
Message 4/16 24-Jan-99 @ 09:00 PM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
Yeah...
APS is hihg quality sampler with additional stuff like effects and hd-recording. But having APS I would like to be able to play around with making sounds in the same way one makes sounds with a synth. Like playing around with operators an algorithms and stuff. This possibility is a bit limited here. Although this card can be used as with softsynths. Something that can't be done with far more expensive outboard samplers.
On the other hand having a card with so many features as in APS I think I'd spend all my time on hacking and no time on playing music if it had even more features.
Rafael
APS is hihg quality sampler with additional stuff like effects and hd-recording. But having APS I would like to be able to play around with making sounds in the same way one makes sounds with a synth. Like playing around with operators an algorithms and stuff. This possibility is a bit limited here. Although this card can be used as with softsynths. Something that can't be done with far more expensive outboard samplers.
On the other hand having a card with so many features as in APS I think I'd spend all my time on hacking and no time on playing music if it had even more features.
Rafael
Message 5/16 25-Jan-99 @ 05:46 AM - Nothing is perfect
Check out this website: http://www.howlingdog.com/shootout.asp
There is a sound card shootout featuring aps, yamaha xg1000 and a few others. You can download mp3 files and hear each card in action. I did that, and it's hard to pick a clear cut winner (bearing in mind that there is some loss of quality in the mp3 compression format). Some drums sounded better than others, some pianos were better, etc. Nothing wowed me. These cards are good for making music, but if you want pro sounds these cards are not up to it yet. You still need a dedicated module to do it......
The reviewer mentioned one thing that really bothers me:
Each card had some patches that were subpar. Why can't a box or a card be made with every sound in it a great one?
Of course, it's all subjective.
Check out the site and let's hear it....
Mr. Realist
There is a sound card shootout featuring aps, yamaha xg1000 and a few others. You can download mp3 files and hear each card in action. I did that, and it's hard to pick a clear cut winner (bearing in mind that there is some loss of quality in the mp3 compression format). Some drums sounded better than others, some pianos were better, etc. Nothing wowed me. These cards are good for making music, but if you want pro sounds these cards are not up to it yet. You still need a dedicated module to do it......
The reviewer mentioned one thing that really bothers me:
Each card had some patches that were subpar. Why can't a box or a card be made with every sound in it a great one?
Of course, it's all subjective.
Check out the site and let's hear it....
Mr. Realist
Message 6/16 25-Jan-99 @ 12:58 PM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
Mr Realist, don't you really understand that the sound quality depends on the loaded sample material?!
APS = SAMPLER = NO SAMPLE ROM!!!!
What you hear at http://www.howlingdog.com/shootout.asp are standard 2MB GM Sets. This is a comparison of sample sets, not of sound cards! You can't really be so stupid, not to understand that, can you?
Load a 28MB Grand Piano into the APS and of course it will sound much better than a Piano as a part of a 2MB GM-Set.
APS = SAMPLER = NO SAMPLE ROM!!!!
What you hear at http://www.howlingdog.com/shootout.asp are standard 2MB GM Sets. This is a comparison of sample sets, not of sound cards! You can't really be so stupid, not to understand that, can you?
Load a 28MB Grand Piano into the APS and of course it will sound much better than a Piano as a part of a 2MB GM-Set.
Message 7/16 25-Jan-99 @ 05:07 PM - Point taken
Ok, Jan, your right about the samples. My opinion is based on what was given for test files. With the stock set of sounds from each card, there's not much of a difference.
Sure, you can get better samples for the APS, but then your investment grows (how much are good samples these days?) and that would take the APS into another category.
Mr. Realist
Sure, you can get better samples for the APS, but then your investment grows (how much are good samples these days?) and that would take the APS into another category.
Mr. Realist
Message 8/16 25-Jan-99 @ 09:23 PM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
Mr.Realist.
Wrong again. Many good sounds come with the card. Is that unsatisfactory you can always buy some new. I bought a CD-bundle called Module Mania consisting of 6 CD's for 99$. This is are probably markets cheapest and best sounds.
Sounds is what you'll have to get regardlesly what card you get. APS has the cheapest ones.
Rafael
Wrong again. Many good sounds come with the card. Is that unsatisfactory you can always buy some new. I bought a CD-bundle called Module Mania consisting of 6 CD's for 99$. This is are probably markets cheapest and best sounds.
Sounds is what you'll have to get regardlesly what card you get. APS has the cheapest ones.
Rafael
Message 9/16 27-Jan-99 @ 12:33 AM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
if the asp loads those emu cdroms... and they have the sample sets for most of the emu module ranges as it says... and if the demo is anything to go by they sound ok........ i reckon it is pretty much worth it's price, and pitched about right too soundwise/price......
for me, it would be good... as long as it can do this:
let me load in samples and flip thru the banks/sounds as my sequencer plays... (no.. i dont expect it to even do it whilst playing-back but if it did, that'd be nice)
i would need to know the synth parameters to judge it's synthesis abilities... never mind it's quality of sound .....but importantly.. i must be able to edit a sound, as it plays back from the sequencer... with the other multiparts all playing along.... very improtant......
if it can do that.... then for me that is enuff, as long as it is is simple & possible to save your own banks, or samples INDIVIDUALLY as patches if needs be..... and banks can mix up loaded preset patches, and my own patches
so if i can do all that and play it with no noticable latency from a keyboard... fine.... the demo's sound ok.... and like the man says... it's your own samples that count.... and having a good library to back you up is very important in some cases...
also..... can it accept samples of any length?..... if so that just makes it better....cos it can do vocal & loop fx etc...
as for the quality of the sound... that is another thing...i'd have to use it.... i wouldnt say that the card alone was viable for all styles.... but obviously you can add outboard to it...... but unless you're looking for essentially a synth/card with a large quality pallette of loadable premade sounds,,, it's going to be down to it's ability to sample and synthesise creatively and work fast as well....
i guess if it did all that.. at about 500 it's be ok... (probably is about that price here in the UK)....
for me, it would be good... as long as it can do this:
let me load in samples and flip thru the banks/sounds as my sequencer plays... (no.. i dont expect it to even do it whilst playing-back but if it did, that'd be nice)
i would need to know the synth parameters to judge it's synthesis abilities... never mind it's quality of sound .....but importantly.. i must be able to edit a sound, as it plays back from the sequencer... with the other multiparts all playing along.... very improtant......
if it can do that.... then for me that is enuff, as long as it is is simple & possible to save your own banks, or samples INDIVIDUALLY as patches if needs be..... and banks can mix up loaded preset patches, and my own patches
so if i can do all that and play it with no noticable latency from a keyboard... fine.... the demo's sound ok.... and like the man says... it's your own samples that count.... and having a good library to back you up is very important in some cases...
also..... can it accept samples of any length?..... if so that just makes it better....cos it can do vocal & loop fx etc...
as for the quality of the sound... that is another thing...i'd have to use it.... i wouldnt say that the card alone was viable for all styles.... but obviously you can add outboard to it...... but unless you're looking for essentially a synth/card with a large quality pallette of loadable premade sounds,,, it's going to be down to it's ability to sample and synthesise creatively and work fast as well....
i guess if it did all that.. at about 500 it's be ok... (probably is about that price here in the UK)....
Message 10/16 27-Jan-99 @ 08:28 AM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
Rafael, I agree totally about the thing being as good as the samples. Mr Realist, The thing about sample CDs increasing the cost of a card is a little unRealistic. The whole point as I see it , is that with a sampling card you can increase your pallete of sounds with a relaively inexpensive CD ROM as opposed to buying a complete synth, so in the long run you are not stuck with the same sounds. As for the synthesis power of the APS in dealing with samples, I am hoping Rafael has some answers. I am a guitar player who knows fuckall about the use of synthesis, but I can tell when it is being used because the sound changes in an organic kind of way which so far I have not experienced with SoundFont format. However I have downloaded a sound for the Terratec by a CD ROM company called Groovestyle and VOILA! Fucking Great! These boys make full use of the Terratec synth facilities and produce some very cool sounds. I aint gonna be spending hours programming sounds myself but I do expect to have access to top of the line sounds. I am still curious as to the extent of the APS's synthesis abilities. Come back oh wise men of the net. Dale
Message 11/16 29-Jan-99 @ 10:08 AM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
Dale
I'm not sure what you mean by "synthesis power of APS". It is as you know a sampler. So this works in much the same way as recording a sound on a tape. And then you play the tape with various speeds in order to get the sound in various pitches. Except that this is all done digitally. APS in it self doesn't do anything else to the sound but change the sounds envelope, loop points, effects and things like that at the request from the user.
Some pro sounds do have some synthetic waves mixed into their samples on order to get better dynamics or for other reasons. But this is done by the people who make the souds. Some Module Mania sounds from E-MU are made using this technique with great resaults. If you want a clean guitar sound you record it clean. It is as simple as that.
Or did I misunderstand you.
Rafael
I'm not sure what you mean by "synthesis power of APS". It is as you know a sampler. So this works in much the same way as recording a sound on a tape. And then you play the tape with various speeds in order to get the sound in various pitches. Except that this is all done digitally. APS in it self doesn't do anything else to the sound but change the sounds envelope, loop points, effects and things like that at the request from the user.
Some pro sounds do have some synthetic waves mixed into their samples on order to get better dynamics or for other reasons. But this is done by the people who make the souds. Some Module Mania sounds from E-MU are made using this technique with great resaults. If you want a clean guitar sound you record it clean. It is as simple as that.
Or did I misunderstand you.
Rafael
Message 12/16 29-Jan-99 @ 11:14 PM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
My point is that samples played dry without say the ADSR don't sound very realistic. For instance a piano that dies as soon as the key isn't depressed sounds wrong as some realease is needed to give it the right flavour. Of course SoundFont has this feature but with Ed!son you can basically start with a very short saw wave sample and then you have all of the other synth features to shape the sound in a very dramatic way. It would seem that the more that the actual synth features that are added, the better the sound because as we all know, once that loop takes over there's nowhere for the sound to go. These are the features that I'm curious if the APS has.Dale
Message 13/16 31-Jan-99 @ 11:00 AM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
APS has most of the synthesis features of the EMU e4 samplers and the vienna lets you set up modulation routings like 'cords' on eos4.
but (and the reason I don't have an APS)
the filters are the same as on my AWE sound card (worse apparently)
just a simple lowpass (with resonance) filter.
Apparently the thing is going to include more outputs and a software upgrade at a later stage - hopefully including better filters.
Even akais have a good range of filters these days...
Oh, and the thing is locked to 48khz digital output beacuse of the codec so you have to go through a sample rate conversion stage - seems a stupid design decision.
From the "real" APS faq
Q: Realistically, why would anyone (in the studio) want an E4 sampler etc. if the APS had the cool filters and the 44.1/48 bitrates
A: They wouldn't - so we build the misfeatures into the product so that the APS remains a 'semi-pro' tool.
kim
but (and the reason I don't have an APS)
the filters are the same as on my AWE sound card (worse apparently)
just a simple lowpass (with resonance) filter.
Apparently the thing is going to include more outputs and a software upgrade at a later stage - hopefully including better filters.
Even akais have a good range of filters these days...
Oh, and the thing is locked to 48khz digital output beacuse of the codec so you have to go through a sample rate conversion stage - seems a stupid design decision.
From the "real" APS faq
Q: Realistically, why would anyone (in the studio) want an E4 sampler etc. if the APS had the cool filters and the 44.1/48 bitrates
A: They wouldn't - so we build the misfeatures into the product so that the APS remains a 'semi-pro' tool.
kim
Message 14/16 31-Jan-99 @ 12:56 PM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
Well I can tell you that the Terratec has 24oct filters and they sound pretty cool. Also a neat feature is that they make control change 71 and 74 resonance and filter cutoff, which is normally accessed via NRPN. Dale
Message 15/16 10-Feb-99 @ 02:35 AM - RE: Why would anyone want anything but E-MU APS!?
I'd love to hear the APS samples.I just bought the sound
card and loaded some of the sf2fonts into the bank
manager.....ALAS! the onscreen keyboard is silent.
How does a rookie get this thing to produce?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
card and loaded some of the sf2fonts into the bank
manager.....ALAS! the onscreen keyboard is silent.
How does a rookie get this thing to produce?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Message 16/16 17-Feb-99 @ 06:18 PM - Why would anyone want THE E-MU APS!? :-))
Hi guys.
just a short one ..... i bought the SBlive value a few weeks ago. i use it as a sampler.
basicly i didnt think that all the extra options of the APS worth an extra 400$ :-))
i use it as a sampler and thought that its effects will be ok too.
so as a sampler its preaty good (not pro .... but i'm not a pro musician so we get along just fine).
now the effects was another story .... with all the talking here about the APS's EMU10k chip u would think that its a baby Lexicon or something.
i found the effects ... and the reverb too, to be rough. the reverb when u try to boost it starts to distort the sound in a VERY un plesent way.
i changed to the original APS drivers and still the same thing ....... even worse.
if someone thinks that i'm talking about AD/DA noise then i'm not. i use the spdif out!
its simply not strong enough chip to make so much effects in one time.
that was my general feeling .. i didnt post any thing about it cause i thought ppl here will strat to "eat" me alive :-))
now .... 4 days ago i bought the SW1000xg.
lets leave a side the" sampler vs synth" thing ....... i wont even mention the 12 track HARDWARE mixer....... nor the sonic AD/DA quality.
lets talk simply ..Effects.
everybody knows that reverbs r the hardest effects in relation to DSP cycles.
now i dont care how much MIPS gives the EMU10k chip .. it just sounds bad.
the reverbs of the SW1000xg r simply PRO LEVEL in any aspect. u can compare them to WAVES plug ins or DSPFX plug ins without even thinking twice ( i used both)
further more ... the veriaty of the variation effect bus and the 2 insertion buses gives u so meny effects .... i didnt even try 20% of them yet .. but as a guitar player i did try the distotions and the AMP simulator. lets start by saying that it wont replace my Digitech2120 valve pre AMP.
but as an extra palet of guitar sounds they r simply GOOD. if u r a beginer guitarist then it will be a real treat for your ears.
i used the delays and the AURAL exiter too ..... superb.
i learned one thing from that .. its not the quantity ... its the quality.
sure ... 16 effects in the same time sounds great ... but thats just quantity :-))
as i always say .. dont listaen to ADS or friends....listen to your ears.
p.s. APS=500$ SW1000xg=550$ .. so "Why would anyone want THE E-MU APS!? :-))"
Amit (and i thought i could make it short)
just a short one ..... i bought the SBlive value a few weeks ago. i use it as a sampler.
basicly i didnt think that all the extra options of the APS worth an extra 400$ :-))
i use it as a sampler and thought that its effects will be ok too.
so as a sampler its preaty good (not pro .... but i'm not a pro musician so we get along just fine).
now the effects was another story .... with all the talking here about the APS's EMU10k chip u would think that its a baby Lexicon or something.
i found the effects ... and the reverb too, to be rough. the reverb when u try to boost it starts to distort the sound in a VERY un plesent way.
i changed to the original APS drivers and still the same thing ....... even worse.
if someone thinks that i'm talking about AD/DA noise then i'm not. i use the spdif out!
its simply not strong enough chip to make so much effects in one time.
that was my general feeling .. i didnt post any thing about it cause i thought ppl here will strat to "eat" me alive :-))
now .... 4 days ago i bought the SW1000xg.
lets leave a side the" sampler vs synth" thing ....... i wont even mention the 12 track HARDWARE mixer....... nor the sonic AD/DA quality.
lets talk simply ..Effects.
everybody knows that reverbs r the hardest effects in relation to DSP cycles.
now i dont care how much MIPS gives the EMU10k chip .. it just sounds bad.
the reverbs of the SW1000xg r simply PRO LEVEL in any aspect. u can compare them to WAVES plug ins or DSPFX plug ins without even thinking twice ( i used both)
further more ... the veriaty of the variation effect bus and the 2 insertion buses gives u so meny effects .... i didnt even try 20% of them yet .. but as a guitar player i did try the distotions and the AMP simulator. lets start by saying that it wont replace my Digitech2120 valve pre AMP.
but as an extra palet of guitar sounds they r simply GOOD. if u r a beginer guitarist then it will be a real treat for your ears.
i used the delays and the AURAL exiter too ..... superb.
i learned one thing from that .. its not the quantity ... its the quality.
sure ... 16 effects in the same time sounds great ... but thats just quantity :-))
as i always say .. dont listaen to ADS or friends....listen to your ears.
p.s. APS=500$ SW1000xg=550$ .. so "Why would anyone want THE E-MU APS!? :-))"
Amit (and i thought i could make it short)
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