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Forums - Computer music & technology
Subject: Big mistake...
Viewing all 28 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3
Original Message 1/28 30-Aug-00 @ 07:32 AM - Big mistake...
I recently bought a M-Audio DiO 2448, with digital/optical I/O. I knew it did not have any analogue inputs, but I thought -Ok, I´ll just use the digital input for recording into my sequencer then.
This was a big mistake, since none of my gear has a digital output!
Is it possible to record analogue sounds into the computer with this card?
In that case, how do I do it?
This was a big mistake, since none of my gear has a digital output!
Is it possible to record analogue sounds into the computer with this card?
In that case, how do I do it?
Message 3/28 30-Aug-00 @ 09:34 AM - RE: Big mistake...
DOH!!!!?
Yes, I know that this has probably been discussed more than once before on this board, but: What about "analog to digital converter"? Is that like an external adapter you put between your gear and the card?
Im no genious, I know, but please reply anyway.
Yes, I know that this has probably been discussed more than once before on this board, but: What about "analog to digital converter"? Is that like an external adapter you put between your gear and the card?
Im no genious, I know, but please reply anyway.
Message 4/28 30-Aug-00 @ 09:56 AM - RE: Big mistake...
DOH just meant that it was a mistake indeed...
can't you take it back to shop?
ADC is mebbe not so useful option
(ADC is thing which converts analog signal to digital. Yes you put it inbetween your soundsource and card. Usually it is (ithink) it's a rack with multiple ins and outs. And it's propably expensive...)
how many inputs\outputs there is? what other gear you have?
I'd consider buying digital mixer. It has analog ins and digital out... something like FOSTEX VM04 or 08 or 88. better yet would be mixer with ADAT out/in (i think VM88 has). then you could use optical connection of your card. There is 8 signal travelin in ADAT connections at the same time (your card would be 8 in and 8 out card which is*very*good thing)
And there's usually some FX processors on digital mixers which u could use to beef up your sound.
Digital mixer can be (where you live and what's your budget?) expensive but prices are coming down i suppose.
What other gear you have?
can't you take it back to shop?
ADC is mebbe not so useful option
(ADC is thing which converts analog signal to digital. Yes you put it inbetween your soundsource and card. Usually it is (ithink) it's a rack with multiple ins and outs. And it's propably expensive...)
how many inputs\outputs there is? what other gear you have?
I'd consider buying digital mixer. It has analog ins and digital out... something like FOSTEX VM04 or 08 or 88. better yet would be mixer with ADAT out/in (i think VM88 has). then you could use optical connection of your card. There is 8 signal travelin in ADAT connections at the same time (your card would be 8 in and 8 out card which is*very*good thing)
And there's usually some FX processors on digital mixers which u could use to beef up your sound.
Digital mixer can be (where you live and what's your budget?) expensive but prices are coming down i suppose.
What other gear you have?
Message 5/28 30-Aug-00 @ 10:04 AM - RE: Big mistake...
Return your Digital I/O card - you have no need for it until you get equipment with digital outs.
and Dude - do some homework. Yes mistakes happen, but come on!! I don't mean to sound harsh here, but you GOTTA know the difference between digital and analog.
Go get yourself a soundcard with analog I/O's.
and Dude - do some homework. Yes mistakes happen, but come on!! I don't mean to sound harsh here, but you GOTTA know the difference between digital and analog.
Go get yourself a soundcard with analog I/O's.
Message 6/28 30-Aug-00 @ 10:07 AM - RE: Big mistake...
There's the link for fostex diggies.
I was offered vm08 for 190 quid but dealer was desperate to get rid of them and you're propably nowhere near were i live...
I was offered vm08 for 190 quid but dealer was desperate to get rid of them and you're propably nowhere near were i live...
Message 7/28 30-Aug-00 @ 02:21 PM - RE: Big mistake...
Yeah, sure, I know the difference between analog & digital, but I thought the signal became digital INSIDE the card, I did not think the input could ONLY handle signals that were ALREADY digital, d´ya know what I mean?
Well, I could always take it back to the shop, but I bought it like 2 months ago (before I bought the computer on which I use the card), so I would´nt be getting all my money back (I think).
M-Audio does have good & fast support, so I want to stick with them if I´m gonna change to another card.
The Delta 44 would be perfect if it had digital I/O.
However, is it necessary to use digital outputs if I´m gonna record something to a DAT, or can I use analog outputs?
Thanks.
Well, I could always take it back to the shop, but I bought it like 2 months ago (before I bought the computer on which I use the card), so I would´nt be getting all my money back (I think).
M-Audio does have good & fast support, so I want to stick with them if I´m gonna change to another card.
The Delta 44 would be perfect if it had digital I/O.
However, is it necessary to use digital outputs if I´m gonna record something to a DAT, or can I use analog outputs?
Thanks.
Message 8/28 30-Aug-00 @ 02:44 PM - RE: Big mistake...
Depends what your DAT has. Make sure you get a DAT machine with Dig I/O and analog I/O. Cover your bases there. The worst thing that you could do is try to return it. If you wanna stick to M Audio and you don't mind having two cards - a dig card and an analog card - then adding the Delta 44 is a good option. That could work. I'd be interested in hearing how the two of htem play together.
Message 9/28 30-Aug-00 @ 03:17 PM - RE: Big mistake...
Yeah, that would be very nice, having 2 cards of that caliber in my system . The reason why I´m hesitating is that I use a Soundblaster PCI 128 for the MIDI, which would make my computer use no less than 3 soundcards.
I think that would be pretty unreliable, with a lot of conflicts, but I could be wrong. What do you think?
I think that would be pretty unreliable, with a lot of conflicts, but I could be wrong. What do you think?
Message 10/28 30-Aug-00 @ 03:45 PM - RE: Big mistake...
Sounds like you need the Hoontech. :-) 3 cards? Doable - I wonder what kind of conflicts you're gonna ahve with the Soundblaster, though. I don't know - how do they play with other cards? Looks like lots of IRQs gone as well. Dunno - the Hoontech solution looks like a real winner. M Audio has the Delta 1010 that I was looking at - $700, though, if you have it. Aardvark has the Aark 24, as well. Similar features, but ALOT more money. There have to be other Midi I/O digital I/O cards out there. Doesn't that Soundblaster have digital I/O?
Message 11/28 30-Aug-00 @ 06:45 PM - RE: Big mistake...
umm.. if you have a dat why dont you go out from the digital outs on your dat into the digital ins on your soundcard?
Message 12/28 31-Aug-00 @ 01:15 AM - RE: Big mistake...
I don´t have a DAT! Not yet, anyway.
I could always disable the 2448, and use it ONLY when I need to record something digital in or out. Do you think that could work?
That means I would only be using the Delta 44 for audio and the PCI 128 for MIDI.
Smart solution? Or is there gonna be conflicts in the hardware?
I could always disable the 2448, and use it ONLY when I need to record something digital in or out. Do you think that could work?
That means I would only be using the Delta 44 for audio and the PCI 128 for MIDI.
Smart solution? Or is there gonna be conflicts in the hardware?
Message 13/28 31-Aug-00 @ 01:38 AM - RE: Big mistake...
I still think digital mixer is theee solution for you....
Message 14/28 31-Aug-00 @ 02:30 AM - RE: Big mistake...
How much is a cheap digital mixer, then?
I live in Sweden, where most gear is at least as expensive as in the rest of Europe...
Just a simple, small digital mixer. How much?
I live in Sweden, where most gear is at least as expensive as in the rest of Europe...
Just a simple, small digital mixer. How much?
Message 15/28 31-Aug-00 @ 04:24 AM - RE: Big mistake...
I did search på svenska and found musikborsen.de and found fostex vm04 for (listprice, call for real price) 3995,- knonor. Didn't find it any cheapar in sweden thant that. Thomann.de has got usually good prices but didn't find any smaller ones there...
Don't know exchange rates for kron at the moment (euros?) but those seem a bit expensive
(what does brits think? that's about 240 quid me thinks)
If you dont want to give up the card and consider doing this (music) little more seriously i'd think about bigger, propably 8 channel, mixer... then you'd have ADAT, FX... and you wouldn't have think about new mixer as you expand your studio (mistake which i did: bought a cheap mixer and realised after 6 months that i need bigger when bought some new equipment)
but if on budget 4 track will get you from your situatution and of course you could sell it later...
Don't know exchange rates for kron at the moment (euros?) but those seem a bit expensive
(what does brits think? that's about 240 quid me thinks)
If you dont want to give up the card and consider doing this (music) little more seriously i'd think about bigger, propably 8 channel, mixer... then you'd have ADAT, FX... and you wouldn't have think about new mixer as you expand your studio (mistake which i did: bought a cheap mixer and realised after 6 months that i need bigger when bought some new equipment)
but if on budget 4 track will get you from your situatution and of course you could sell it later...
Message 16/28 31-Aug-00 @ 06:15 AM - RE: Big mistake...
Why you wana keep the soundblaster?
Do you use it for soundfonts?
if you are not, ditch it, get a usb midi interface like the midiman 2in/out
fo 70$ (here in us) or if you don't need the second midi channel, get the midiman 1 mid in/out for 40$...
or....get the hoontech dsp 24/96 wit the dac/adc 2000 break out box for 475$ (i am assuming the prices are close over there to what they are in US) it comes with digital outs, 8 anolog ins/outs and midi in/out/thru...
I think the hoontech will cover everything you need.
there is areview over here, might help:
http://www.pcrecording.com/hoontech.htm
before you buy anything you should ask around and check the reviews on the net.
Do you use it for soundfonts?
if you are not, ditch it, get a usb midi interface like the midiman 2in/out
fo 70$ (here in us) or if you don't need the second midi channel, get the midiman 1 mid in/out for 40$...
or....get the hoontech dsp 24/96 wit the dac/adc 2000 break out box for 475$ (i am assuming the prices are close over there to what they are in US) it comes with digital outs, 8 anolog ins/outs and midi in/out/thru...
I think the hoontech will cover everything you need.
there is areview over here, might help:
http://www.pcrecording.com/hoontech.htm
before you buy anything you should ask around and check the reviews on the net.
Message 17/28 31-Aug-00 @ 06:27 AM - RE: Big mistake...
hoontech feaver is spreading... 
who's got it allready (everyone seems to want it)?
K and I... whoelse? any problems?
who's got it allready (everyone seems to want it)?
K and I... whoelse? any problems?
Message 18/28 31-Aug-00 @ 06:57 AM - RE: Big mistake...
I am working on it... should be able to get it in next 2 months....
I might go for the gadgetlabs wave/824, i think they are the only direct competion except the gadget labs has 24bit/48khz recording which is it's only downfalls, but it has +4dbu pro ins/outs compared to hoontechs consumer (-10dbu) ins/outs and has balanced outs compared to hoontechs unbalanced ins/outs
price is same too.
check it out:
http://gadgetlabs.com/wave824.php
I might go for the gadgetlabs wave/824, i think they are the only direct competion except the gadget labs has 24bit/48khz recording which is it's only downfalls, but it has +4dbu pro ins/outs compared to hoontechs consumer (-10dbu) ins/outs and has balanced outs compared to hoontechs unbalanced ins/outs
price is same too.
check it out:
http://gadgetlabs.com/wave824.php
Message 19/28 31-Aug-00 @ 07:23 AM - RE: Big mistake...
and price is...?
24/48 I wouldn't consider exctly low-quality... I never recognized any difference and won't believe it's important with dance music. then again what do i know...
24/48 I wouldn't consider exctly low-quality... I never recognized any difference and won't believe it's important with dance music. then again what do i know...
Message 20/28 31-Aug-00 @ 08:32 AM - RE: Big mistake...
I am not saying 24/48 is low quality i was trying to point out the differences
I am still recording my stuf here at 16/44... i dont think you really need 96 khz recording, that would double the space you need to record a song compared to 24/48 plus you need bigger bandwith, ide drives could cause problems...
I might get the gadget labs coz i dont think i would use 96 khz recording anyways, plus the balanced ins and input levels, the price is 450$ , comes with the 8 in/out breakout rackmount box. but i got to see the reviews and the latency.... And better manuals.
I am still recording my stuf here at 16/44... i dont think you really need 96 khz recording, that would double the space you need to record a song compared to 24/48 plus you need bigger bandwith, ide drives could cause problems...
I might get the gadget labs coz i dont think i would use 96 khz recording anyways, plus the balanced ins and input levels, the price is 450$ , comes with the 8 in/out breakout rackmount box. but i got to see the reviews and the latency.... And better manuals.
Message 21/28 31-Aug-00 @ 09:31 AM - RE: Big mistake...
Ville, the Fostex vm 04 is available for 3995 swedish kronor, and that is $423, ?475 and £290 at the current exchange rates.
This is pretty much for a 4 channel digital mixer, isnt it?
I just don´t know what to do:
1. Buy me a Delta 44 and disable/disconnect the DiO 2448 until I need it.
2. Return the DiO 2448 and buy a Delta 66 (lots of money lost because of my mistake)
3. Buy a cheap digital mixer.
4. Buy the Hoontech AudioDSP24 -ADC/DAC (which I really cant afford).
I´m not gonna use more than 1-2 external units, I want it all to be in the computer. As simple as possible, I just want to start the computer and load the song, not have 5-10 external units to configure before I get going. That way, all my inspiration will be gone when I´m ready to begin!
This is why I am moving away from my MIDI setup, it did´nt fit my style of musik-making, really.
This is pretty much for a 4 channel digital mixer, isnt it?
I just don´t know what to do:
1. Buy me a Delta 44 and disable/disconnect the DiO 2448 until I need it.
2. Return the DiO 2448 and buy a Delta 66 (lots of money lost because of my mistake)
3. Buy a cheap digital mixer.
4. Buy the Hoontech AudioDSP24 -ADC/DAC (which I really cant afford).
I´m not gonna use more than 1-2 external units, I want it all to be in the computer. As simple as possible, I just want to start the computer and load the song, not have 5-10 external units to configure before I get going. That way, all my inspiration will be gone when I´m ready to begin!
This is why I am moving away from my MIDI setup, it did´nt fit my style of musik-making, really.
Message 22/28 31-Aug-00 @ 10:39 AM - RE: Big mistake...
Why get an external digital mixer when you want to keep it all inside the PC? That doesn't make sense. Seems kind of silly to have 3 cards when you can get one to do the jobs of all three, but when you don't have the money, you don't have the money. Get the Delta 66 - or 44. Whats the 44 - 4 analog i/o's? The 66 has 6 analog i/o's? I'd do that, if I were you.
Message 23/28 31-Aug-00 @ 10:21 PM - RE: Big mistake...
or if you like Maudio and want both digi and analog then you could get the Delta 66. that has both dont it?
also..if you DO buy a DAT machine, you can use it as a D/A converter...just go IN analog, and OUT digital. my cheap ass panasonic did it...
OR, just get rid of that soundcard you have, get a full spec sound card with analog and digi IO (preferably SPDIF AND Optical) and analog IO, too...
then get a "real" midi interface. theyre not so expensive anymore...you like Maudio..check out Midiman then...
also..if you DO buy a DAT machine, you can use it as a D/A converter...just go IN analog, and OUT digital. my cheap ass panasonic did it...
OR, just get rid of that soundcard you have, get a full spec sound card with analog and digi IO (preferably SPDIF AND Optical) and analog IO, too...
then get a "real" midi interface. theyre not so expensive anymore...you like Maudio..check out Midiman then...
Message 24/28 01-Sep-00 @ 02:15 AM - RE: Big mistake...
Sure, I could return the DiO 2448 and buy a Delta 66, but then I´ll lose the optical I/O that is on the 2448. And a shitload of money, I might add.
And the Delta is expensive (like everything else around here), the 66 is £421, ($613, ?687) and the 44 is available at £290, ($423, ?474).
Does that seem expensive to you guys?
At this point, I feel like going for a Delta 44, and disconnecting the DiO 2448 until I get myself a DAT or something that requires digital I/O.
Your advice is welcome, as always...
And the Delta is expensive (like everything else around here), the 66 is £421, ($613, ?687) and the 44 is available at £290, ($423, ?474).
Does that seem expensive to you guys?
At this point, I feel like going for a Delta 44, and disconnecting the DiO 2448 until I get myself a DAT or something that requires digital I/O.
Your advice is welcome, as always...
Message 25/28 01-Sep-00 @ 08:39 AM - RE: Big mistake...
You haven't mentioned what other gear you have?
Defector Z: surely he must at some point connect the outputs of computer and say synth... right?
myabe i'm repeating myself but:
Yep digital mixers are expensive but buying new card at the price you maentioned isn't very cheap... besides do you think you'd need mixer at some point? so...
With digi mixer you could connect analog outs from your outboard gear to mixers digital out... no fuzz when dealing with several cards less load on your PC.
I've necer used DAT. Could someone tell me it's pros? couldn't you do same with writable cd drive? whole lot cheaper.
Defector Z: surely he must at some point connect the outputs of computer and say synth... right?
myabe i'm repeating myself but:
Yep digital mixers are expensive but buying new card at the price you maentioned isn't very cheap... besides do you think you'd need mixer at some point? so...
With digi mixer you could connect analog outs from your outboard gear to mixers digital out... no fuzz when dealing with several cards less load on your PC.
I've necer used DAT. Could someone tell me it's pros? couldn't you do same with writable cd drive? whole lot cheaper.
Message 26/28 01-Sep-00 @ 08:47 AM - RE: Big mistake...
True - but it sounds like he's only gonna 4 outputs at most. The Delta44 has 4 analog in's, and that should cover it. An outboard mixer will be necessary if you want to route the outputs to a DAT _and_ monitors, but you don't need a digital mixer for that.
Message 27/28 01-Sep-00 @ 09:27 AM - RE: Big mistake...
but there are loads of stereo dac/adc boxes around you can bolt on to that DIO card... try midiman for one, but what is MORE important is wether it's drivers are good enuff to get lo latency and really get to use the system in realtime for monitoring
Message 28/28 04-Sep-00 @ 05:38 AM - RE: Big mistake...
This is my gear at the moment:
AKAI S2000 (For ANYTHING Mostly drums)
Roland Juno 106 (For cool analog sounds)
Kawai MIDI keyboard (For clean instrumental sounds)
Alesis Quadraverb GT
An old 8-channel analog mixer. (Not perfect sound quality though)
Jackson Electric Guitar and Hughes and Kettner amp. (I suck at guitar, it´s just to make the list longer ;)
Technics stereo system with 12" woofers for monitoring. (I mostly use headphones though)
SONY CD RW , before I can afford a DAT.
The DAT is better in live situations, a CD is more instabile. That´s my reason.
I do not plan to have more than 1-2 external units connected to the computer at the same time, I want most of the mixing to be done inside the computer, like I said. That is why I won´t buy a digital mixer. Yet.
I will get most of my money back if I return the DiO 2448, so I will probably buy a Delta 66 and put some (a lot) cash in between. That way, I will still have digital I/O and no more than 2 cards in the computer. Sooner or later I´ll get a MIDI interface instead of a SB 128, but until then... I think I´ll manage.
I don´t need a dac/adc box to further complicate things (drivers & such crap
Anyway, THANKS for all the useful information lads!
AKAI S2000 (For ANYTHING
Mostly drums)Roland Juno 106 (For cool analog sounds)
Kawai MIDI keyboard (For clean instrumental sounds)
Alesis Quadraverb GT
An old 8-channel analog mixer. (Not perfect sound quality though)
Jackson Electric Guitar and Hughes and Kettner amp. (I suck at guitar, it´s just to make the list longer ;)
Technics stereo system with 12" woofers for monitoring. (I mostly use headphones though)
SONY CD RW , before I can afford a DAT.
The DAT is better in live situations, a CD is more instabile. That´s my reason.
I do not plan to have more than 1-2 external units connected to the computer at the same time, I want most of the mixing to be done inside the computer, like I said. That is why I won´t buy a digital mixer. Yet.
I will get most of my money back if I return the DiO 2448, so I will probably buy a Delta 66 and put some (a lot) cash in between. That way, I will still have digital I/O and no more than 2 cards in the computer. Sooner or later I´ll get a MIDI interface instead of a SB 128, but until then... I think I´ll manage.
I don´t need a dac/adc box to further complicate things (drivers & such crap
Anyway, THANKS for all the useful information lads!
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