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Forums - Samplers & sampling
Subject: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
Viewing all 18 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2
Original Message 1/18 29-Mar-00 @ 10:26 PM - ASR X PRO = Pro ?
the topic pretty much tells it. my main consearn is the timing of the sequencer and loading problems/errors...
Message 2/18 30-Mar-00 @ 05:43 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
hey druma,
Thought you sold your ASR-X for a MPC2KXL?
If you are wondering if the ASR-X Pro w/ OS 3.04 improves upon the seqeuncer in the original ASR-X the answer is, unfortunately, no! OS 3.04 (red-X) and OS 2.67 (black-X) are the same aside from the red-X specific functions.
I've had vary few SCSI error going Mac -> Zip drive -> ASR-X Pro. I finally accounted for the few instances where a distorted sample would go across. Had to do with using AIFFs created/saved in D-SoundPRO and then Peak SE for the transfer. Much improved if I stick to Peak for my work. Near as I can tell its no worse or better than any other popular sampler. Save often and save two sets of back-ups.
There is a thread in progress today on the ASR-X Mailing list at Onelist.com on the very subject of SCSI/PCs/ASR-X where people are sharing notes on the 'best' way to do SCSI on the PC w/ the X.
E / E reportedly have OS 4 in beta - only a year late, too! ha ha There are rumours - and they are just rumours - that a 2nd revision to OS 4 might happen but I doubt that. Pure speculation or 'what if's?' IMO.
jondl
Thought you sold your ASR-X for a MPC2KXL?
If you are wondering if the ASR-X Pro w/ OS 3.04 improves upon the seqeuncer in the original ASR-X the answer is, unfortunately, no! OS 3.04 (red-X) and OS 2.67 (black-X) are the same aside from the red-X specific functions.
I've had vary few SCSI error going Mac -> Zip drive -> ASR-X Pro. I finally accounted for the few instances where a distorted sample would go across. Had to do with using AIFFs created/saved in D-SoundPRO and then Peak SE for the transfer. Much improved if I stick to Peak for my work. Near as I can tell its no worse or better than any other popular sampler. Save often and save two sets of back-ups.
There is a thread in progress today on the ASR-X Mailing list at Onelist.com on the very subject of SCSI/PCs/ASR-X where people are sharing notes on the 'best' way to do SCSI on the PC w/ the X.
E / E reportedly have OS 4 in beta - only a year late, too! ha ha There are rumours - and they are just rumours - that a 2nd revision to OS 4 might happen but I doubt that. Pure speculation or 'what if's?' IMO.
jondl
Message 3/18 30-Mar-00 @ 06:15 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
i cant understand what idiot runs Ensoniq's division?.... Jondl - you know this unit well.. dont you think it is a terrible shame for such a super powerful sampler with so much power features being screwed by a few persistant unreliability issues ?... is there no light at the end of the tunnel??
Message 4/18 30-Mar-00 @ 07:23 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
ha haha LOL Yes, Kilo I agree. But I think there is some light at the tunnels end!
IMO, the sluggish response of working with the Sequencer *really* hurt the X in the market place. It's the number one issue, period. The SCSI bus is okay - no better or worse than every other current sampler. The disk handling routines need improvement :-/ They're probably no more painful to the user than say the A3000 - but not as reliable as an E-mu (from my experience only mind you.)
Ensoniq lost one of their number one VPs to Korg and that was the beginning of the end for innovative new Ensoniq gear (my friend has had his Fizmo repaired twice! so far but he loves the thing) However, Ensoniq had an enormous share of the OEM Soundcard market which made them VERY attractive to Creative Labs. That's why they paid $77 million!
Creative had previously purchased E-mu - presumably to integrate their Sound Card & Soundfont technology with CL's. Ensoniq became Creative Labs of Malvern (Pennsylvania that is - catchy name, huh?) and the MI department was merged with E-mu on the West Coast. A lot of people were sacked and others chose not to go to California. So, basically, E-mu took over the stalled development of OS 4. Corporate mergers can be pretty ugly to witness and less kind to users.
To make matters worse, Ensoniq uses a custom DSP chip called the ESP2. This thing was used in EVERYTHING including the well reviewed and successful Paris DAW (yeah, I can afford one ;-) To cut to the quick - the chip was designed such that it became very difficult to produce it *reliably* in large enough quantities to maintain production levels at a degree that would satisfy market demand :-/
Okay, deep breath, they - E-mu / Ensoniq - have recently announced that they have solved the problem by redesigning the ASIC such that it can be reproduced in bulk to resume the product line. Yea!
Furthermore, E/E signed an ongoing deal with Intelligent Devices (or was it Designs?) to continue sw development for Paris. This resulted in the long overdue v2 OS and now v2.1 has been 'pre' announced. OS 4 for the ASR-X has been reversed engineered by E-mu and is reportedly in Beta.
Lastly, E-mu has acknowledged the problem with matched SIMMs, for a total of 66 MB, in the ASR-X Pro (not the original ASR-X) is not solved by 'cleaning the sockets' as was advised last fall - ha haha - I kid you not. It's a real pain in the ass for users - the SIMMs I have working for a total of 66 MB won't necessarily work for another user and for no explicable reason?!?! Doesn't matter whether they are EDO or non-EDO - completely unpredictable. Real pain in the ass and I sympathize with peoples dissappointment. If you buy a 2nd hand ASR-X Pro put this at the TOP of your list of things to check out. The perceived SCSI issues - on which I've already commented - are a non-issue compared to this.
All that said - I love the sound of this machine! The effects are fantastic. Loads more parameters to tweak than I'll ever explore - and in real time to. No problems driving it from an external sequencer - just don't try to adjust 50 million parms at once ;-) it will choke just as every MIDI box does (there's something EVERY manufacturer could improve!)
The resampling is incredible and I've gotten to the point where I'm comfortable with the file structure - complicated as it can be. I've got a PowerMac G3 with Peak SE for SCSI transfers and the freeware ASR-X Editor is stable as a rock under OS 9. BIAS offers a decent upgrade from SE to the full blown Peak. Soon as my budget allows I'm there. Since I didn't have an existing ASR library to carry over to the X I really haven't suffered from the translation bug's (well, discrepencies is the more appropriate term) that others have. The ASR-X is NOT an ASR rackmount - too many poor souls didn't check that out well enough before selling their ASR-10 keyboards and modules!
I can tell you the old Ensoniq is gone, gone, gone! Too bad really - for lots of reasons. Even the hits to my site relflect that. It not quire 2 to 1 but my AN1x page sees loads more traffic than the X page lately. Maybe it will pick up with the release of OS 4.
jondl
IMO, the sluggish response of working with the Sequencer *really* hurt the X in the market place. It's the number one issue, period. The SCSI bus is okay - no better or worse than every other current sampler. The disk handling routines need improvement :-/ They're probably no more painful to the user than say the A3000 - but not as reliable as an E-mu (from my experience only mind you.)
Ensoniq lost one of their number one VPs to Korg and that was the beginning of the end for innovative new Ensoniq gear (my friend has had his Fizmo repaired twice! so far but he loves the thing) However, Ensoniq had an enormous share of the OEM Soundcard market which made them VERY attractive to Creative Labs. That's why they paid $77 million!
Creative had previously purchased E-mu - presumably to integrate their Sound Card & Soundfont technology with CL's. Ensoniq became Creative Labs of Malvern (Pennsylvania that is - catchy name, huh?) and the MI department was merged with E-mu on the West Coast. A lot of people were sacked and others chose not to go to California. So, basically, E-mu took over the stalled development of OS 4. Corporate mergers can be pretty ugly to witness and less kind to users.
To make matters worse, Ensoniq uses a custom DSP chip called the ESP2. This thing was used in EVERYTHING including the well reviewed and successful Paris DAW (yeah, I can afford one ;-) To cut to the quick - the chip was designed such that it became very difficult to produce it *reliably* in large enough quantities to maintain production levels at a degree that would satisfy market demand :-/
Okay, deep breath, they - E-mu / Ensoniq - have recently announced that they have solved the problem by redesigning the ASIC such that it can be reproduced in bulk to resume the product line. Yea!
Furthermore, E/E signed an ongoing deal with Intelligent Devices (or was it Designs?) to continue sw development for Paris. This resulted in the long overdue v2 OS and now v2.1 has been 'pre' announced. OS 4 for the ASR-X has been reversed engineered by E-mu and is reportedly in Beta.
Lastly, E-mu has acknowledged the problem with matched SIMMs, for a total of 66 MB, in the ASR-X Pro (not the original ASR-X) is not solved by 'cleaning the sockets' as was advised last fall - ha haha - I kid you not. It's a real pain in the ass for users - the SIMMs I have working for a total of 66 MB won't necessarily work for another user and for no explicable reason?!?! Doesn't matter whether they are EDO or non-EDO - completely unpredictable. Real pain in the ass and I sympathize with peoples dissappointment. If you buy a 2nd hand ASR-X Pro put this at the TOP of your list of things to check out. The perceived SCSI issues - on which I've already commented - are a non-issue compared to this.
All that said - I love the sound of this machine! The effects are fantastic. Loads more parameters to tweak than I'll ever explore - and in real time to. No problems driving it from an external sequencer - just don't try to adjust 50 million parms at once ;-) it will choke just as every MIDI box does (there's something EVERY manufacturer could improve!)
The resampling is incredible and I've gotten to the point where I'm comfortable with the file structure - complicated as it can be. I've got a PowerMac G3 with Peak SE for SCSI transfers and the freeware ASR-X Editor is stable as a rock under OS 9. BIAS offers a decent upgrade from SE to the full blown Peak. Soon as my budget allows I'm there. Since I didn't have an existing ASR library to carry over to the X I really haven't suffered from the translation bug's (well, discrepencies is the more appropriate term) that others have. The ASR-X is NOT an ASR rackmount - too many poor souls didn't check that out well enough before selling their ASR-10 keyboards and modules!
I can tell you the old Ensoniq is gone, gone, gone! Too bad really - for lots of reasons. Even the hits to my site relflect that. It not quire 2 to 1 but my AN1x page sees loads more traffic than the X page lately. Maybe it will pick up with the release of OS 4.
jondl
Message 5/18 30-Mar-00 @ 08:59 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
yhea I had the X for 4 years and was/am a real Pro user on the X, I bought a MPC thinking it was
the only machine that could do what I wanted ( the rest of the live sequencers (live meaning I
could do mutes on the fly ect...were the Q8o mmt8 and I didn't feel like doing my entire MIDI
production on a tiny lcd running through menu after menu...
I didn't even consider the RM1x thought it was just another grovebox...but after some research it
turns out that the RMX is a serious sequencer!!! I also thought the MPC would b a good future
investment, I'm getting an 01v and it needs 16 midi ch for automation... but I could easily just
pick up a Qy70 to go with the Rm1x dedicated for automation..
but I've already sold my ASR X: it had some problems (sometimes after loading kit I was
missing sounds, it froze on me quite a few times even after OS2.67 (might b cos of my inpatient
button pressing while processing , u know when u hit a button the same split of the sec as the
processing finishes), and the sequencer was/is skimpy...but all in all unacceptable to work with
if u r serious about music...
but I really miss it...!! and now I'm thinking of getting a X Pro with a Rm1x! I'm just not
comfortable with the MPC, too many walls/limits, u can't freely roam around the OS when
playback like on the X which is a extremely nice touch .. and the sequencer doesn't allow any
sequence edits during playback (xept u erase notes on the fly, but hell the X could do that!).. its
basically: / record / stop / edit / operation, the only thing its got going for it is: the fader (gets
great results), amazingly tight and reliable sequencing! and the way u can configure it live
(trigger seq and do un/mutes from the pads), 64 tracks is allot of horse-power and it will never
glitch! great for the Pro who needs to take a whole studio out live without any worries and the
sampler is also really good for drums and all in all its a great drum machine... BUT ...the RM1x
allows u to record & edit on the fly!!! ...grid is a natural state for me to work in... and the Rm1x
looks like a innovative unit offering some unique features that make it shine as a creative tool. I
guess I was blinded by its appearance and price.. but its actually quite a Pro unit! yamaha r doing
great things to their products concerning interfaces and live pliability, the company has great
vision.
all in all the X is (IMO) much more innovative I got magical things out of it, it was also way
faster in use than the MPC! u c everyone was going on and on about how great the interface of the
MPC was and how the X interface sucks so I though I would greatly improve my music if the
interface was that much better, but all that moving the cursor around that big lcd is a slower
process than jumping from menu to menu and using two hands (one to scroll through parameters
and the other to edit (very fast) its is all on one level and very hands on!!.. and if u get your head
around it its structure its very simple OS to operate.. ..I had limited experience with samplers
and when everyone told me it sucked I had nothing to really compare to it .. so I assumed other
samplers must have even Greater way to interact with their functions... so out I went to get the
might MPC just to find out that it's a simple sampler with a sequencer in a box! no magic.
and it occurred to me last night when I was working on a remix when I wanted to put delay w a
lot of feedback on a vocal, resample it, loop the delay & do some chops and filtering and make it
fall in a rithmatic way to my 909 beat!!....i need my X back!
I know when I posted that I was going to sell it to get a MPC.. u kilo said "don't do it".. I should
have given that reply more respected... the X is one of the most creative innovative instruments
out there.. its the king in ChopFu i.e. Recycle on wheels!! send a loop to any number of pads
without taking up Ram (the X automatically does parameter copies) quickly set up looppoints go
in record and throw down your "chops" then punch out of record (the x allows u to go in/out of
record without ever stopping playback (never killing the moment (but so can the mighty MPC)
then go and adjust "sample start point loop"/ "loop end point" AND "loop start point" while the
seq plays back i.e. in REAL-TIME!!!! each chop (note) has its independent fx bus and sampling
parameters (Imagine), and with two button presses u'll have the loop resampled on the scratch
pad!! way superior to any other resampling system out there.. fantastic machine .. only flawn by
its unprofessional feel.. what a great stand Ensoniq made with this unit!!
...yhea I feel really stupid but I had to find out if the MPC was the God everyone said it was and
I'll forgive my stupidness cos I'll have magical powers with the X and a RM1X (a way superior
system to the MPC,. this is :: the interface between my mind and my music...
yhea I know I have 2 much time on my hands ...
Message 6/18 31-Mar-00 @ 12:13 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
hey jondl, u seam well informed, prehaps u can answer this:
is the sequencer timing problem software related or is it true that the prossessor isn't fast ennough to run the system?
I asked a Ensoniq rep and he could not coment ..typical..
if it is the prosessor there is no light at the end of the tunnel!!!!??
OS4.o will not do anything to improve upon the sequencer.
wait for a ASR X ultra I guess...
is the sequencer timing problem software related or is it true that the prossessor isn't fast ennough to run the system?
I asked a Ensoniq rep and he could not coment ..typical..
if it is the prosessor there is no light at the end of the tunnel!!!!??
OS4.o will not do anything to improve upon the sequencer.
wait for a ASR X ultra I guess...
Message 7/18 31-Mar-00 @ 02:34 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
It's the latter - the CPU doesn't have enough oomph to keep up with all the housekeeping simultaneously. Don't confuse the CPU with the ESP2 chips - they're not one in the same. I believe I read the CPU is a variant of the Motorolla 68030 series, i.e., the chip designation is not a 68030 per se but comes from the same family.
OS 4 will probably introduce the promised new features - some of which might be nice ;-) and hopefully some bug fixes. I'd like to see the Save and Load routines cleaned up some. They work oaky but that 'rewrite aiffs?' prompt drives EVERYBODY nuts!
Read you post - well said! Some of it I've heard from others, i.e., SCSI problems and lock-ups. More later when I've time...
OS 4 will probably introduce the promised new features - some of which might be nice ;-) and hopefully some bug fixes. I'd like to see the Save and Load routines cleaned up some. They work oaky but that 'rewrite aiffs?' prompt drives EVERYBODY nuts!
Read you post - well said! Some of it I've heard from others, i.e., SCSI problems and lock-ups. More later when I've time...
Message 8/18 31-Mar-00 @ 09:14 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
druma,
sorry your not 100% satisfied with the MPC. I understand what you're saying about the Q80/MMT-8 situation. Do you seq on your computer yet? I had a MMT-8 about 12 years back. Stopped using it and sold it off after I bought a Korg T3. I could push buttons on the T3 faster than it could keep up - locked up on me all the time (user abuse of course!)
Just over a year ago when I bought the ASR-X Pro I was reading the web news on the RM1x and even priced them out when they hit the U.S. Decided a new sampler was more in line with my plans. I too discounted it as a result of the "groove image" thing. Ever hear "don't judge a book by its cover?" I'm as guilty as the next guy...To be honest, I've not spent much hands on time with the RM1x - the interface just left me head scratching. I need to find a Quick Start PDF or something to take with me next time I visit Guitar Center. In contrast, the MMT-8 was the EASISET sequencer I've ever used (that doesn't say much though.)
I've heard other X user say the same things about SCSI load errors and lock-ups on the black-X. Did you ever check to see if the SCSI card was seated properly? Obviously it wasn't a termination issue or you would never of had anything load ;-) I posted a question to the X list to find out if the SCSI card for the black X (optional user add-on) is the same one used on the red-X (standard & installed at the factory). Curious about that now...
If I follow your post correctly it sounds like you just don't gel with the MPC user interface. You know, sometimes a piece of gear can be really great and still leave you going 'ugh'. Nothing wrong with that. Me and my Korg Wavestation were like that - I lived with that beast for 5 years too! It replaced my T3 - neither of which are purchases I look back on fondly - ha haha (I'm laughing with me NOT at me!) I *hated* using the WS (but the keyboard action was nice.)
It seems our opinions of the ASR-X features and sounds are along the same lines. Your post inspired me last nite and had me doing my best Norman Cook impersonation ;-) Whipped up a crappy little seq; resampled it; started a new seq to trigger my loop and pumped the whole kitnkaboodle through the DDL->EQ Effect. Massive! Thanks for getting me off my butt - I haven't done anything the last few weeks with music :-)
jondl
sorry your not 100% satisfied with the MPC. I understand what you're saying about the Q80/MMT-8 situation. Do you seq on your computer yet? I had a MMT-8 about 12 years back. Stopped using it and sold it off after I bought a Korg T3. I could push buttons on the T3 faster than it could keep up - locked up on me all the time (user abuse of course!)
Just over a year ago when I bought the ASR-X Pro I was reading the web news on the RM1x and even priced them out when they hit the U.S. Decided a new sampler was more in line with my plans. I too discounted it as a result of the "groove image" thing. Ever hear "don't judge a book by its cover?" I'm as guilty as the next guy...To be honest, I've not spent much hands on time with the RM1x - the interface just left me head scratching. I need to find a Quick Start PDF or something to take with me next time I visit Guitar Center. In contrast, the MMT-8 was the EASISET sequencer I've ever used (that doesn't say much though.)
I've heard other X user say the same things about SCSI load errors and lock-ups on the black-X. Did you ever check to see if the SCSI card was seated properly? Obviously it wasn't a termination issue or you would never of had anything load ;-) I posted a question to the X list to find out if the SCSI card for the black X (optional user add-on) is the same one used on the red-X (standard & installed at the factory). Curious about that now...
If I follow your post correctly it sounds like you just don't gel with the MPC user interface. You know, sometimes a piece of gear can be really great and still leave you going 'ugh'. Nothing wrong with that. Me and my Korg Wavestation were like that - I lived with that beast for 5 years too! It replaced my T3 - neither of which are purchases I look back on fondly - ha haha (I'm laughing with me NOT at me!) I *hated* using the WS (but the keyboard action was nice.)
It seems our opinions of the ASR-X features and sounds are along the same lines. Your post inspired me last nite and had me doing my best Norman Cook impersonation ;-) Whipped up a crappy little seq; resampled it; started a new seq to trigger my loop and pumped the whole kitnkaboodle through the DDL->EQ Effect. Massive! Thanks for getting me off my butt - I haven't done anything the last few weeks with music :-)
jondl
Message 9/18 01-Apr-00 @ 12:51 AM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
wow.. I feel like the man..hehe I'm so glad that my post inspired u to get up
and dance ').. and Thank u! for your great replies!! really informative and
help clear allot of thins up for me/ and others..
"user abuse" glad to c I'm not the only bully in town
"on a note" the MPC
excels in this!! it feels like I can abuse it as much as I want without
worries, a very versatile unit (("Pro feeling")) and it really keeps up with
button pressing offering instant command action...
one thing that bugs me is that so many Pros love their MPC, Underworld
has like 6 of em, and almost every other Pro producer has one, and
everyone gives it top marks!! this was one of the reasons I gave in.. what
am I missing ?? (any MPC head outhere that can xplain what it is that is so
great about this box?):: to me its just a simple sample player & sequencer
in a box, I'll admit it's extreamly Pro feeling tight timing and overall very verstyle ..but nothing to rave about
as a innovative tool.. ..
""I've heard other X user say the same things about SCSI load errors and
lock-ups on the black-X.""
So I take it that lock-ups and SCSI problems on the PRO arn't a issue, any
problems after 3.04!?
""you just don't gel with the MPC user interface""
hehe "gel" dig the lingo.., no its quite cool actually: by holding down
shift and pressing one of the nine numeric buttons u can access any main
group of menus (only two accessible during play: "Mixer & Program",
they can also b used to enter in values (I didn't think much of that at first
but I've come to really dig it (very useful), but I think the X Pro allows the same with the essentials (right?), u get a nice mixer, waveform display,
dedicated undo/redo (instant!) & erase buttons (although this is the same as
hitting the record button + a pad on the X)., track mute, seq select, open
window and main screen buttons with 6 function keys under the lcd and a
fader make out as a GREAT setup of key commands. and the ability to
name anything u want (via letters under pads, fast!) and graphical file
management keep the user very organized., not to many menus as the screen can handle allot of info, but u still have to surf around that big lcd with the cursor (can lead to allot of pressing) but all in all: a REALLY GREAT INTERFACE
..BUT what I miss so much about the X besides: the super cool scratch pad and the ton of sampling parameters and the great Filters and the sweetest FX around (the MPC FX r ok. but quite simply stink next to the FX on the X), is the highly inspirational way u could chop (Realtime-Recycle) (is there any other sampler out there that can do
this??), the fact is that by the time I've set up the "auto chop" zones on the MPC on one sample (u can't btw select samples by hitting its pad in Trim, have to scroll between samples with the data wheel, on the X u just hit the pad)) I will already had choped up my sample/s with loops and sequenced
on the X !!
to me the X is a sensational instrument.
and dance ').. and Thank u! for your great replies!! really informative and
help clear allot of thins up for me/ and others..
"user abuse" glad to c I'm not the only bully in town
"on a note" the MPC excels in this!! it feels like I can abuse it as much as I want without
worries, a very versatile unit (("Pro feeling")) and it really keeps up with
button pressing offering instant command action...
one thing that bugs me is that so many Pros love their MPC, Underworld
has like 6 of em, and almost every other Pro producer has one, and
everyone gives it top marks!! this was one of the reasons I gave in.. what
am I missing ?? (any MPC head outhere that can xplain what it is that is so
great about this box?):: to me its just a simple sample player & sequencer
in a box, I'll admit it's extreamly Pro feeling tight timing and overall very verstyle ..but nothing to rave about
as a innovative tool.. ..
""I've heard other X user say the same things about SCSI load errors and
lock-ups on the black-X.""
So I take it that lock-ups and SCSI problems on the PRO arn't a issue, any
problems after 3.04!?
""you just don't gel with the MPC user interface""
hehe "gel" dig the lingo..
, no its quite cool actually: by holding down shift and pressing one of the nine numeric buttons u can access any main
group of menus (only two accessible during play: "Mixer & Program",
they can also b used to enter in values (I didn't think much of that at first
but I've come to really dig it (very useful), but I think the X Pro allows the same with the essentials (right?), u get a nice mixer, waveform display,
dedicated undo/redo (instant!) & erase buttons (although this is the same as
hitting the record button + a pad on the X)., track mute, seq select, open
window and main screen buttons with 6 function keys under the lcd and a
fader make out as a GREAT setup of key commands. and the ability to
name anything u want (via letters under pads, fast!) and graphical file
management keep the user very organized., not to many menus as the screen can handle allot of info, but u still have to surf around that big lcd with the cursor (can lead to allot of pressing) but all in all: a REALLY GREAT INTERFACE
..BUT what I miss so much about the X besides: the super cool scratch pad and the ton of sampling parameters and the great Filters and the sweetest FX around (the MPC FX r ok. but quite simply stink next to the FX on the X), is the highly inspirational way u could chop (Realtime-Recycle) (is there any other sampler out there that can do
this??), the fact is that by the time I've set up the "auto chop" zones on the MPC on one sample (u can't btw select samples by hitting its pad in Trim, have to scroll between samples with the data wheel, on the X u just hit the pad)) I will already had choped up my sample/s with loops and sequenced
on the X !!
to me the X is a sensational instrument.
Message 10/18 01-Apr-00 @ 08:14 AM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
well, u know I love my MPC Druma, but the thing is, Akai r the biggest bunch of cunts going - the took the S2ks basic, but workable sampler/synth engine and crippled it so it became a phrase sampler. I think the reason so many people like theirs is because they have well-specced racksamplers in their rig too 2 make up 4 the MPCs serious sampling shortcomings (and u and I both know, it has many of them). Persaonlly, I love the intuitive, rock-solid sequencer and the crisp , punchy drumsound (I havta b carefull not 2 fully normalize samples in my emu b4 sending them 2 that MPC though, else it sounds disgustingly harsh - I love u akai!.........cunts). It does the job 4 me bigtime, and I cant see meself ever selling it unless its 4 another MPC, its just a shame akai make it cos it sould do so much more. I don`t blame u 4 wanting shot of it, cos as your only sampler..............well, thats a bit of a hellish prospect really, get the ASRX dude.
Message 11/18 01-Apr-00 @ 10:39 AM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
Garth at RCS confirmed for me that the SCSI Port on the original ASR-X (optional, user installed) is the identical card used in the ASR-X Pro (standard, installed at the factory). So many things come into play with a SCSI chain I don't know that we can reverse troubleshoot the occasional glith you described.
I've heard of X-Pro users having problems with SCSI chains but they were also using older, discontinued products like SyQuest eZflyers, etc. I know that the Orb drive doesn't work at all with either X. I don't hear many of many X/Zip drive problems - aside from disks going bad or drives crashing. Since I share my Zip between my Mac and X I get the occasional device not found error in Peak and I have to 'reset' the SCSI chain - no big deal - just a nuisance. I don't think 3.04 makes a difference as far as SCSI connections. The pre-3.04 releases were beta/developer only so I can't comment on practical use. Typically, I'd use short SCSI cables to keep my SCSI chain within the theoretical limits. That said, for my X, I'm using a decent quality 6 ft. SCSI cable and much to my surprise it's been very reliable. My Zip is about 18 months old too (about five-six months older than my X.) Did you ever check to see whether the SCSI card in your old X was seated in its slot firmly?
So what are you going to do? R-Tek seems to be dialed into the MPC+2nd sampler combo scenario. It's obvious you miss the ASR-X and we know you can get a deal on eBay (are you in the U.S. or Europe?) or trade. Are you going to keep the MPC and buy another X or will you go for an X / RM1x combo. I know there were one or two X'ers on the mailing list using both the RM1x and X. If you go the latter route, than you'll need to spend time getting over the learning curve associated with a new piece of gear. Not that you're not up to that ;-) but do you have the TIME to fit that in amongst your other activities? Geez, I haven't even made time to put up that demo copy of Logic I spent so much time tracking down :-(
I've heard of X-Pro users having problems with SCSI chains but they were also using older, discontinued products like SyQuest eZflyers, etc. I know that the Orb drive doesn't work at all with either X. I don't hear many of many X/Zip drive problems - aside from disks going bad or drives crashing. Since I share my Zip between my Mac and X I get the occasional device not found error in Peak and I have to 'reset' the SCSI chain - no big deal - just a nuisance. I don't think 3.04 makes a difference as far as SCSI connections. The pre-3.04 releases were beta/developer only so I can't comment on practical use. Typically, I'd use short SCSI cables to keep my SCSI chain within the theoretical limits. That said, for my X, I'm using a decent quality 6 ft. SCSI cable and much to my surprise it's been very reliable. My Zip is about 18 months old too (about five-six months older than my X.) Did you ever check to see whether the SCSI card in your old X was seated in its slot firmly?
So what are you going to do? R-Tek seems to be dialed into the MPC+2nd sampler combo scenario. It's obvious you miss the ASR-X and we know you can get a deal on eBay (are you in the U.S. or Europe?) or trade. Are you going to keep the MPC and buy another X or will you go for an X / RM1x combo. I know there were one or two X'ers on the mailing list using both the RM1x and X. If you go the latter route, than you'll need to spend time getting over the learning curve associated with a new piece of gear. Not that you're not up to that ;-) but do you have the TIME to fit that in amongst your other activities? Geez, I haven't even made time to put up that demo copy of Logic I spent so much time tracking down :-(
Message 12/18 01-Apr-00 @ 01:48 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
hey R-tek thanks for not burning my head on a stick for turning my back on
the MPC cult.. glad to c u backing me up actually...
Jondl: thanks for the SCSI research.. concerning "the learning process" I
have a job opportunity to go on the road with a theatre play so I'll just take the RM1x with me and when I come back a month later I'll b set to hook it up to the rest of the kit)....besides my real gain is that: my 4 years of ASRX experience is put 2 use again.
my only fear is that I'm making the wrong choice:: everyone loves their
mpc,, heck R-Tek can't go on without it!! I've only had it for a 7 weeks,
with the standard 2mb of ram, (vs. my 4 years on the ASRX which makes
me wonder if I would do what I'm doing if I had 4 years on the mpc????),
but within that time I've sampled quite a bit, and often found myself crying
for a High Pass or Resampling.. and like I said I dearly miss the way the X
can chop in real-time!! I really bond with that method...is there any other
sampler out that can do this!!???
concerning ASR X VS MPC work speed/interface: : the MPC has
dedicated buttons and a big lcd which make u think it would b faster/easier
in use. but the fact is: there r allot of shortcuts on the X and second
functions by holding two buttons down, u also don't have to go through
trim & programs and sampling is done with a touch of a button, with
imitate access to all sampling parameter on any sound via touch of a pad, all that really makes up for those dedicated keys..
and R-Tek u do all your sequencing and drum sampling on the MPC, perhaps u can enlighten me of its magic and how it helps u make music? cos if the only reason people buy it is cos of its reability and tight timing, I'll b sadly disappointed in the standard the market has fallen to, its great to carry your kit live but besides
that its just another box. basicly I'we xpressed why the ASR X is so fantastik, can u do the same with the MPC prehaps that will open my mind.
the MPC cult
.. glad to c u backing me up actually... Jondl: thanks for the SCSI research.. concerning "the learning process" I
have a job opportunity to go on the road with a theatre play so I'll just take the RM1x with me and when I come back a month later I'll b set to hook it up to the rest of the kit)....besides my real gain is that: my 4 years of ASRX experience is put 2 use again.
my only fear is that I'm making the wrong choice:: everyone loves their
mpc,, heck R-Tek can't go on without it!! I've only had it for a 7 weeks,
with the standard 2mb of ram, (vs. my 4 years on the ASRX which makes
me wonder if I would do what I'm doing if I had 4 years on the mpc????),
but within that time I've sampled quite a bit, and often found myself crying
for a High Pass or Resampling.. and like I said I dearly miss the way the X
can chop in real-time!! I really bond with that method...is there any other
sampler out that can do this!!???
concerning ASR X VS MPC work speed/interface: : the MPC has
dedicated buttons and a big lcd which make u think it would b faster/easier
in use. but the fact is: there r allot of shortcuts on the X and second
functions by holding two buttons down, u also don't have to go through
trim & programs and sampling is done with a touch of a button, with
imitate access to all sampling parameter on any sound via touch of a pad, all that really makes up for those dedicated keys..
and R-Tek u do all your sequencing and drum sampling on the MPC, perhaps u can enlighten me of its magic and how it helps u make music? cos if the only reason people buy it is cos of its reability and tight timing, I'll b sadly disappointed in the standard the market has fallen to, its great to carry your kit live but besides
that its just another box. basicly I'we xpressed why the ASR X is so fantastik, can u do the same with the MPC prehaps that will open my mind.
Message 13/18 01-Apr-00 @ 03:11 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
Druma, I do all my sequencing on my MPC. Drums r lifted b4hand on my emu and treated 2 whatever processing they need (filtering, efx, whatever) b4 being resampled and sent 2 the MPC that kinda magically adds a topend sheen 2 the drums. I like the way it forces u 2 work - in little sections, no graphical interface so it kinda trains yer ears 2 liten 2 whats going on rather than look. Very intuitive and lightning quick 2 get ideas down, the only thing that is shit about the interface IMO is when u add swing and shift 2 the notes - too damn fiddly.
Its true that I feel I cant manage without it, but, I could never mange with it being my only sampler either.....cos....well, its not really a sampler is it?
Something I would suggest though is the ASQ10 - an MPC60 without the sampler - 4 midi outs, 2 ins, rocksolid timing and pretty much the same interface as the MPC2. Not as good a sequencer as the RM1X (so I`m told, Ive never used the Yam), but u get a seriously healthy amount of timbrality which I feel, could b a winner in the live arena, and team that up with the ASRXs superb sampling abilities and u may well find yerself in music-making nirvana. Just a thought anyway, I`m not sure if the Yams 16 part timbrality would b a good idea in the long run.
Its true that I feel I cant manage without it, but, I could never mange with it being my only sampler either.....cos....well, its not really a sampler is it?
Something I would suggest though is the ASQ10 - an MPC60 without the sampler - 4 midi outs, 2 ins, rocksolid timing and pretty much the same interface as the MPC2. Not as good a sequencer as the RM1X (so I`m told, Ive never used the Yam), but u get a seriously healthy amount of timbrality which I feel, could b a winner in the live arena, and team that up with the ASRXs superb sampling abilities and u may well find yerself in music-making nirvana. Just a thought anyway, I`m not sure if the Yams 16 part timbrality would b a good idea in the long run.
Message 14/18 01-Apr-00 @ 09:02 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
R-Tek,
It's interesting that you mention the ASQ10 - a friend and fellow ASR-X user just brought that up with me last week.
Didn't the ASQ10 go out of production in the late '80's / early '90's - or am I'm mistaken? Any idea how it would compare to current gear?
jondl
It's interesting that you mention the ASQ10 - a friend and fellow ASR-X user just brought that up with me last week.
Didn't the ASQ10 go out of production in the late '80's / early '90's - or am I'm mistaken? Any idea how it would compare to current gear?
jondl
Message 15/18 02-Apr-00 @ 04:17 AM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
yeah, it went out with the MPC60....which was early 90s I think. How does it compare 2 current gear? Well, its the same old MPC basically that Akai r flogging 4 all its worth - resolution is 96pqn compared 2 the RM1Xs 480pqn but u get swing quantise which cant b underestimated, no graphical interface whatsoever, but that all so simple and easy interface (IMO) that lets u get the job done. I`m not saying druma *should* get one, its just a suggestion, but how many other 64part H/W sequencers r outthere? I think a lot of the time we try and tell ourselves that we *need* this or that feature in our sequencer, when really all we need is the basics, and we ned them 2 b done well.
Message 16/18 02-Apr-00 @ 12:20 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
the ASQ isn't as great live as the MPC2k cos u can't do any live seq triggering or muting via pads!
what am I going to do..hmmm well its brand new and I think there's a waiting list for it at the music store that I bought it at! its only 7weeks old, and I'm pretty sure I can walk into the store and return it for almost full refund and walk out with a 01v + cash (can u beleve I paid over $31oo CND for it!!! there is no competison here in Canada, they all team up to gether to phock the customer, sorta like a gang bang (I can't beleve I just said that) but I'm hopeing I can get great deal in a trade for a X pro! cos prices on Ebay r dirt cheap and the XL is new!
but I was using the MPC last night and the feel of it is sooooo good, and everything it does it does sooo well the timestreatching is of way higher quality so is the bit-reduction (called resample on the Akai, it does take hell of alot longer than on the X, hence the quality (it truly resamples, while the X just reducts bits), I'm not worried about frezzes anymore after 1.10 ( hed up R-tek 1.1 is out) it loads/saves very fast, and I get around the windows quite clearly. I can c myself really diging it after few more months!
R-tek has the force ..hes got the E5ooo + the MPC.. man what a combo! ..but there's no way I can afford another sampler, and the MPC sampling abilities really depress me.
but if u r not having any problems with your X pro jondl?? I'll pick up a X! is it safe to go back? r u running 3.04 (is 3.04 same as 2.67?) is the seq better on the pro?? and all in all does the pro have a better feel?, one thing I've always wonderd is: how does that stomper come out? and do the essentals help living the X life?..
and in the long run 64 tracks will come in handy, I just wish we had thouse great features of the RM1x like group mute/recording, spliting a drum track into seprate tracks + tons more of very usable features., and all thouse realtime twist.. man Akai what a bunch of cunts! the reason they didn't inqlude the S2000 engine is cos that would hurt the sales of the S2000 and the up coming MPC5000, talk about buissnes ethics!! ...
what am I going to do..hmmm well its brand new and I think there's a waiting list for it at the music store that I bought it at! its only 7weeks old, and I'm pretty sure I can walk into the store and return it for almost full refund and walk out with a 01v + cash (can u beleve I paid over $31oo CND for it!!! there is no competison here in Canada, they all team up to gether to phock the customer, sorta like a gang bang (I can't beleve I just said that) but I'm hopeing I can get great deal in a trade for a X pro! cos prices on Ebay r dirt cheap and the XL is new!
but I was using the MPC last night and the feel of it is sooooo good, and everything it does it does sooo well the timestreatching is of way higher quality so is the bit-reduction (called resample on the Akai, it does take hell of alot longer than on the X, hence the quality (it truly resamples, while the X just reducts bits), I'm not worried about frezzes anymore after 1.10 ( hed up R-tek 1.1 is out) it loads/saves very fast, and I get around the windows quite clearly. I can c myself really diging it after few more months!
R-tek has the force ..hes got the E5ooo + the MPC.. man what a combo! ..but there's no way I can afford another sampler, and the MPC sampling abilities really depress me.
but if u r not having any problems with your X pro jondl?? I'll pick up a X! is it safe to go back? r u running 3.04 (is 3.04 same as 2.67?) is the seq better on the pro?? and all in all does the pro have a better feel?, one thing I've always wonderd is: how does that stomper come out? and do the essentals help living the X life?..
and in the long run 64 tracks will come in handy, I just wish we had thouse great features of the RM1x like group mute/recording, spliting a drum track into seprate tracks + tons more of very usable features., and all thouse realtime twist.. man Akai what a bunch of cunts! the reason they didn't inqlude the S2000 engine is cos that would hurt the sales of the S2000 and the up coming MPC5000, talk about buissnes ethics!! ...
Message 17/18 02-Apr-00 @ 07:53 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
No, I'm not having problems with my ASR-X Pro. As I mentioned earlier - if you buy/trade for an ASR-X Pro make certain to check out how much memory it's configured with. The symptom of a Pro not working with the full 66 MB (2 MB std. plus 2x32 MB SIMMs) installed is a dead give away - it won't boot with 2 x 32 MB SIMMs installed - if it boots okay with only one 32 MB SIMM installed be prepared to play the 'memory swap game' to find a working pair. My advice, try and find one working with the full 66 MB installed and working.
OS 3.04 and 2.67 are essentially the same. The only difference is in the Pro specific features - no big deal. There's no difference in the seq between the red & black X.
It's not actually the sequencer per se that's a problem - it's the CPU that's underpowered. The Seq timing is actually okay during playback only - as you probably already know - its the real time mutes, etc. that put strain on the CPU and of course the Seq pays the price! :-# It was a dumb a** cost cutting measure to manufacture with a lesser CPU. Maybe OS 4 will optimize some of the seq code and improve things - modestly - but I doubt it seriously.
Stomper works fine - just have to remind yourself the 'stomped' sound defaults to the Scratch Pad and needs to be assigned to Pads - but you're already familiar with that too. I'm certain it's not as nice as the PC version but since I'm a Mac user at home I'm glad it's there to fool around with. You can definitely create cool analog like drum sounds with it!
BTW - I took a quick peak at eBay tonight and I noticed most of the ASR-X Pro that have been up FA the last two weeks didn't actually meet the reserve price! Most of them appear to have been stock models, i.e., no output expander, EXP card or extra RAM. Bidding seems to max out at $700+ (U.S.) If it were me, I'd place a reserve at $900, start bidding at $650 and through in the RAM and a Zip drive. I recently saw a similar config go for $1100. We can discuss that offline if you'd like ;-)
Whew, I think that covers it?!
OS 3.04 and 2.67 are essentially the same. The only difference is in the Pro specific features - no big deal. There's no difference in the seq between the red & black X.
It's not actually the sequencer per se that's a problem - it's the CPU that's underpowered. The Seq timing is actually okay during playback only - as you probably already know - its the real time mutes, etc. that put strain on the CPU and of course the Seq pays the price! :-# It was a dumb a** cost cutting measure to manufacture with a lesser CPU. Maybe OS 4 will optimize some of the seq code and improve things - modestly - but I doubt it seriously.
Stomper works fine - just have to remind yourself the 'stomped' sound defaults to the Scratch Pad and needs to be assigned to Pads - but you're already familiar with that too. I'm certain it's not as nice as the PC version but since I'm a Mac user at home I'm glad it's there to fool around with. You can definitely create cool analog like drum sounds with it!
BTW - I took a quick peak at eBay tonight and I noticed most of the ASR-X Pro that have been up FA the last two weeks didn't actually meet the reserve price! Most of them appear to have been stock models, i.e., no output expander, EXP card or extra RAM. Bidding seems to max out at $700+ (U.S.) If it were me, I'd place a reserve at $900, start bidding at $650 and through in the RAM and a Zip drive. I recently saw a similar config go for $1100. We can discuss that offline if you'd like ;-)
Whew, I think that covers it?!
Message 18/18 02-Apr-00 @ 10:25 PM - RE: ASR X PRO = Pro ?
Praise to u jondl!!
thanks agian for great replies,
u coverd every angle mate.
thanks agian for great replies,
u coverd every angle mate.
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