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Forums - Synths & synthesis
Subject: Roland sucks
Viewing all 42 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4 5
Original Message 1/42 30-Oct-99 @ 03:27 PM - Roland sucks
not saying i believe this totally, but maybe it will bring some attention to this forum..but maybe roland does truly suck ass compared to
Message 2/42 30-Oct-99 @ 03:54 PM - RE: Roland sucks
I dont `ave any Roland gear but a couple of me mates do and they sound good an` that but why do they make the gear so user-unfriendly? When I was shopping 4 a sampler I was heavily tempted by the S760 but the interface put me right off so I played safe with an EMU. And they REALLY need 2 get someone that can actually speak English propely 2 translate their manuals.
Message 3/42 30-Oct-99 @ 04:00 PM - RE: Roland sucks
Meesa got a rack Alpha Juno 2... Dark shit coming out of it... Point is: they used to rule, but now they suck, because they dropped all cool technology like analogue, fm (did they ever use that?) and now only have standard pcm and overhyped virtual analog. And their ads (groove approved etc) suck big time too.
Message 4/42 31-Oct-99 @ 10:02 AM - RE: Roland sucks
fully. they seem to want to live in the past, or at least do everything possible not to catch up (maybe)
their new products feel like toys to me, although some do sound pretty good. i feel empathy for anyone who falls prey to their marketing strategy..
their new products feel like toys to me, although some do sound pretty good. i feel empathy for anyone who falls prey to their marketing strategy..
Message 5/42 31-Oct-99 @ 11:45 AM - RE: Roland sucks
yeah - those alpha juno's have some tuff sounds in huh?...
Message 6/42 31-Oct-99 @ 12:04 PM - RE: Roland sucks
I think they`re jus` cashing in on their (previously) good name. They don`t make any proper samplers anymore do they? Its a shame `cos I`m still in love with the 760. They should really b ashamed of themselves. Juno 106 too.
Message 7/42 01-Nov-99 @ 11:19 AM - RE: Roland sucks
I think all that cool stuff was prior to them changing to different ownership (Japan?). I mean, different ideas about the company's direction etc. They went all L/A and lost their way.
I've got that MKS-50 too. Very tuff sounds. And it'll cut right through a mix....
I've got that MKS-50 too. Very tuff sounds. And it'll cut right through a mix....
Message 8/42 01-Nov-99 @ 12:18 PM - RE: Roland sucks
What pisses me off though is that, u get these people who r looking 2 get into making some tunes and don`t know a great deal about gear, they c, say, the EG-101, MC303 and think "thats great" especially if they see the Future Music reviews (something dodgy goin` on there, I`m sure) and waste their money on these....well toys. Its not on.
Message 9/42 01-Nov-99 @ 04:10 PM - RE: Roland sucks
It's a bit sad because Roland spends all of this dosh on basically toys, and you rarely ever hear about their hyigh end equipment. The S760's supposed to be a killer machine, but I haven't seen evidence thereof. They also used to do a very high end hard disk recording system, much higher end than these portable toys they are making right now, I think call the D-800 system or something to that effect. But you never hear about it or things like it. You also don't hear about how coniving those bastards are. There's a post a few months old about some editor, or conversion system or something or other for a roland piece, where one guy designed the unit, another guy steals the idea and manufactures knock-offs, Roland markets the knock-offs, the original creator gets wind and informs Roland of the stolen designs, and Roland in no uncertain terms tells the guy to fuck off in no uncertain terms, and threatens him with a lawsuit if he opens his mouth. FUCK ROLAND. Buy old used. Don't support this new blood sucking corporation. Besides, Waldorfs sound better to me anyway.
Ape
Ape
Message 12/42 19-Nov-99 @ 08:53 AM - RE: Roland sucks
On a Religiose theme the word could be "Cthonians".
Message 13/42 25-Nov-99 @ 02:11 PM - RE: Roland sucks
Now hold on--I've got one of those "toys" you keep referring to, the mc-505, and I've made some really goddamn cool music with that and my Kurzweil. I'm not saying it's any better than anything else, but I've done hellified things with this baby.
Message 14/42 25-Nov-99 @ 02:40 PM - RE: Roland sucks
Great, you bought some toy that tries feebly to emulate some of the great tools that roland used to manufacture when they weren't sitting, er dying on their laurels, along with a cheezy gadget or two thrown in and with a shit interface. Congradulations, you just encouraged Roland to keep doing the same old shit instead of giving the consumer some real modern sound sculpting tools. Nice one. Proud of yourself?
Look, for what they could be investing in R+D, they put into advertising, and cheap labor for mass distribution of product. They are pulling in a massive amount of profit from every sale, and giving us shit products for the money. For what you pay for comperable units form other manufacturers you get TONS more in quality, flexibility, ease of use, whatever. Roland has slacked, and fucked too many people over. You like supporting assholes, go ahead, be one with them. Or wake up and force this company into submission and repent. Boycott their product, and encourage eveyone you know to do the same. "Yeah sure, it's just business." Bullshit! Companies, especially large ones need to be held accountable for unethical actions. Otherwise, they just keep fuckin you and gettin stronger, while you have absolutely no power whatsoever to do anything but bend over and say "please don't take too long, my (signifacant other, whatever....) will be home soon". Keep supporting Roland!!
Ape
no I don't like Roland corp a bit. Do like some of their old stuff, though.
Look, for what they could be investing in R+D, they put into advertising, and cheap labor for mass distribution of product. They are pulling in a massive amount of profit from every sale, and giving us shit products for the money. For what you pay for comperable units form other manufacturers you get TONS more in quality, flexibility, ease of use, whatever. Roland has slacked, and fucked too many people over. You like supporting assholes, go ahead, be one with them. Or wake up and force this company into submission and repent. Boycott their product, and encourage eveyone you know to do the same. "Yeah sure, it's just business." Bullshit! Companies, especially large ones need to be held accountable for unethical actions. Otherwise, they just keep fuckin you and gettin stronger, while you have absolutely no power whatsoever to do anything but bend over and say "please don't take too long, my (signifacant other, whatever....) will be home soon". Keep supporting Roland!!
Ape
no I don't like Roland corp a bit. Do like some of their old stuff, though.
Message 15/42 26-Nov-99 @ 10:36 AM - RE: Roland sucks
yeah...i was even going to buy one of their controllers, but they seem to feel the need to combine pitchbend&modwheel in one horribly unusable bendy deal. hmm...nice feeling semi-weighted keys, but that's it. fuckers
Message 17/42 28-Nov-99 @ 05:47 AM - RE: Roland sucks
they charge a fortune 4 that 505 thing though dont they? I cant believe people r still buying it......u could get an MPC2000 4 that money and start making proper music........
Message 18/42 22-Dec-99 @ 08:23 AM - RE: Roland sucks
True i hate roland, they used to be the shit, but we can still enjoy theyr old gear that they have no control over, and also think no one wants. The mc-303's and 505's i see as appealing to the people who cant make real music, so let em buy those useless shitboxes. That means people with real equipment can sift thru the crap and see the real talent. I myself and diggin waldorf, access of course, and yamaha even, the rm1x and a3000 are ths shit, seems yamaha has the time to make tv's motorbikes, and killer music gear, and roland cant even do one of those.
syrusate
syrusate
Message 19/42 22-Dec-99 @ 11:30 AM - RE: Roland sucks
You know what its all in the matter of opinion. You have no proof that Roland sucks or not. Alls your going by is ads and what you got out of it. Have you ever hear one mans garbage another mans Gold. Its all opinions I see no Hard proof. So your all talkin crap get over it and buy what you like dont piss and wine cus Roland did this or that leave them alone and get a real life. Roland bashing or any bashing is for the ignorant. And no I dont work at Roland I am just a person with a more reasonable realistic view at life and things.
Later
Later
Message 20/42 22-Dec-99 @ 11:38 AM - RE: Roland sucks
you're so full of shit, dude. I've tried their shit. Fuck the ads try some of their gear next to waldorf gear at the same price. Bzzt, sorry, wrong answer, you eat shit, so does roland. Youtthink I'd say this without trying their stuff out? Cummon, dude, wake up. they are fuckers, plain and simple. Any company that spends that much on advertising can't afford to put that much into product in the first place. Duhhh!!! Bashing is not ignorant. A head in the sand and just plain tunnel vision 'oh, it's not politically correct to offend anybody, eeven if thet are exploitative, greedy, and corrupt, it's bad Karma' don't cut it. It's bad Karma to sit by and watch the masses be fucked royally and do nothing about it. Open your eyes, kid.
Ape
Ape
Message 21/42 23-Dec-99 @ 12:17 AM - RE: Roland sucks
Not to keep reiterating the same thing...but Roland sucks my ass these days. Try walking in a studio with an MC-shit box, or DR-fuck head and see where it gets you. One set of outputs on a plastic box and it supposedly does it all. My ass. Get some quality shit piece by piece rather than blowin the wad on some all-in-one shit box. I got an FR-777, that's quality, I got a Virus, that's quality, I got a Jomox X Base, that's quality. I had the JP-8000 and played with the all the other toys but they are just big piles of cheap plastic and crappy knobs. The DR-202 is huge and hollow, how's that for a piece of crap. I do not forsee Roland making anything quality in the near future. As long as there are kids that need something cheap Roland will be in business. It is just sad that the kids that actually enjoy making music are stuck trying to sell there shitty shit box a month later.
Peace
Peace
Message 22/42 23-Dec-99 @ 08:03 PM - RE: Roland sucks
well, that's 'marketing' for ya !! - and as the world moves to even more rediculous levels of capitalism, share-value targets rule all - no-ones interested anymore to make a quality product or company - it's all quick money and profit rules... i mean c'mon... the people who rule that world reckon 200 million unemployed Chinese is 'UNAVOIDABLE' and a price WOTH PAYING if China is to 'modernise' and enter world capital/labour markets fully... 200 million unemployed Chinese !!! - there goes the 100 year plan !!
well anyways - you have to know it fully that 20 years ago they were having the SAME conversations about the USA & Europe too !! - so if Roland have found a new bigger market in a sorta techno-variation to home-organs - well i guess the shareholders will have their say...
well anyways - you have to know it fully that 20 years ago they were having the SAME conversations about the USA & Europe too !! - so if Roland have found a new bigger market in a sorta techno-variation to home-organs - well i guess the shareholders will have their say...
Message 23/42 23-Dec-99 @ 11:25 PM - RE: Roland sucks
come on...NO ONE is interested in making quality or products? there have to be some
Message 24/42 25-Dec-99 @ 04:59 AM - RE: Roland sucks
Roland is Roland there always make neat stuff. The MC series are just tools to make music. The People who sells them are just people who found there not what the wanted or they need money or they felt that its not enough. Its also because some people see others like you say it sux or its not good they are going to find this out or people who bought these and finding them selfs wanting more simply because they are not happy with what they got the gotta have more. I understand Im like this. But you cant say that these tools are lame its your opinion like I say. If you bought one of the MC series or the JX 305 and you like it then thats fine but dont drop them at some ones door step simply cus some said somthing about them. Be Happy with what you get if you cant then move on thats all I can say. The MC series delivers many options and sounds and is very quality with the drum sounds and sequencer at least. The Jp 8000 is says Roland all over it. The sounds your going to get is Roalnd sound if you like this sound buy it if you dont dont buy it if you want more get somthing else. Like I said leave Roland alone let people buy what they like. If you think Roland is lame then more power 2 U. Many people hate the Fizmo well as for the Fizmo I heard this thing in life and its neat to me but from all the fears of it braking down on you I may stay away from it.
later
later
Message 25/42 25-Dec-99 @ 01:37 PM - RE: Roland sucks
Jason - you`re missing the point mate, the list price of the 505 untill recently was £950!!!! U could get an atari, rack sampler and a synth 4 that money. Roland r fleecing people who want 2 get into music but don`t know the coup yet. If they charged £150 4 it, then that`d b OK - noone expects quality and flexibilty at that price, so as it stands, they`re just making out of their previous achievments. U gotta understand, these things r only one step above "home keyboards" in use.
Message 26/42 26-Dec-99 @ 11:58 PM - RE: Roland sucks
At least its not that much more from out dated pricy TB 303,Juno's,jupiters,moogs,oberheim etc. But yes your right the price is steep but you know people are buying out dated gear back when braking down analog for the same money if not more. Give me a break. I think most of you dont like to spend big money on stuff. well well well isnt that news I know nobody who likes to spemd big on anything including my self but thats life deal with it. later
Message 27/42 28-Dec-99 @ 01:22 PM - RE: Roland sucks
i was talking about large shareholder owned companies
Message 28/42 03-Jan-00 @ 09:06 AM - RE: Roland sucks
Ok, Roland used to have cool gear and now they suck but if you take a look at the MC505 features how can you say it is only a toy?
I would like to write much more but i rather make music ;-)
I would like to write much more but i rather make music ;-)
Message 29/42 04-Jan-00 @ 01:55 PM - RE: Roland sucks
Um, the JP-8000 and (especially) the JP-8080 are very cool synths. They're definitely not overpriced "grooveboxes", and are well worth the money. And these are made today, so Roland doesn't completley suck. (Oh, and they make some cool guitar synth equipment too.)
Message 30/42 04-Jan-00 @ 08:23 PM - RE: Roland sucks
of course not... but they have definately found a market highly visible in the dance music arena, and it is that one that draws criticism here, personally i think they do some great stuff, just like say Korg comes up with some gems or yamaha... each sucks and doesnt with a range of products,... but also there is yamaha in that home-music market too.. but, roland are like the Nike of the synthworld , there LOGO is synonymous with a certain chic.. heh heh - - the jp?.. i'd love one thanx !! - or the 8000 or a jd800 etc... plus they do other kit like fx, pedals, h/d units, they do a nice 24 track rack system etc.., portastudio's ..wicked basses !! , big corp Roland.. heh heh ..although they dont do motorbikes or tractors as far as i know tho :-)
Message 31/42 05-Jan-00 @ 05:18 PM - RE: Roland sucks
The JP8000 ain't all that. Owned one for over a year and ditched it. If that is the best thing Roland can offer when their competitors are Waldorf, Access, and Novation then that's pretty sad. Not to mention it was $1300 when it first came out. You can easily get one on the Web for $700 because everyone wants to spend another couple hundred and get a virus. Fuck Roland. Even the 8080 is a big plastic piece of crap. The pads are nice, but it has only one part timbral. For that kind of cash you are wasting your time. No single sound out of the 8080 or 8000 is worth $1200 so you'd be a fool to buy it you are playing anything live.
Message 32/42 06-Jan-00 @ 11:23 AM - RE: Roland sucks
The JP-8080 is actually 2 part, and is most definitely worth the money. It sounds amazing, has a bunch of nice effects, an excellent vocoder, tons of memory (and expandability) for patches. Oh and it's actually made of sturdy metal.
Message 33/42 07-Jan-00 @ 12:23 PM - RE: Roland sucks
WOWWWW!!!!!It's 2 parts, that's amazing. Who gives a crap, that's suppose to impress me. The second part is just so you can make a performance patch or a split.
As for the plastic part.. sorry I got carried away. The 8080 is metal unlike it's plastic buddy the 8000. I owned one for a year and sold it. Got the $1300 receipt to prove my stupidity. Why would you pay the money for an 8080 when you could buy a Virus (this is the access chat room isn't it??). Do you even own any access or waldorf gear or are you just here to feel better about the money you wasted. You don't need both because the Virus can do everything the 8080 can do on one channel. Then you still have 15 more to go.
Sorry, you're not convincing me, and neither is that big ass rack mount that loses the one thing the 8000 has going for it - a ribbon controller. Don't get me wrong, as I said above it doesn't sound half bad. Just not nearly worth the cash and doesn't come close to its competition.
As for the plastic part.. sorry I got carried away. The 8080 is metal unlike it's plastic buddy the 8000. I owned one for a year and sold it. Got the $1300 receipt to prove my stupidity. Why would you pay the money for an 8080 when you could buy a Virus (this is the access chat room isn't it??). Do you even own any access or waldorf gear or are you just here to feel better about the money you wasted. You don't need both because the Virus can do everything the 8080 can do on one channel. Then you still have 15 more to go.
Sorry, you're not convincing me, and neither is that big ass rack mount that loses the one thing the 8000 has going for it - a ribbon controller. Don't get me wrong, as I said above it doesn't sound half bad. Just not nearly worth the cash and doesn't come close to its competition.
Message 34/42 07-Jan-00 @ 01:04 PM - RE: Roland sucks
Okay...
The business person in me has this thought.
I am president of Roland. I make products that people buy in droves and people like the sound of. I have been making these produtcts for 20 years, and have stood the test of time. My company is making money, I am getting return customers and new customers every day. Yet there is a section of the population that doesn't like my product. They say it relies too heavily on the success of the past and is not "innovative" enough. They say my corporate strategy sucks and my marketing is cheesy and I have no ethics.
Now, I can do two things. 1. I can continue as I have been doing for 20 years or 2. I can change my direction to satisfy the vocal malcontents (no offense). Option 1 seems very logical. Option 2 seems very logical but you run the risk of losing your existing customer base - which is the worst business decision someone can make (think about it. Roland stops making the gear that has been successful for them for 20 years, so their users throw their hands up and say "they aren't going to support me anymore!" Word spreads, noones buying roland gear, the company flounders.)
If you don't like their gear, fine. But there are alot of people who like what they make and are willing to pay for it. A lot of people like Akai samplers, and a lot of people don't like Akai samplers. What's the difference?
I read that piece about the guy getting shafted by Roland and that sucks. Have we verified the truth of that story? I am not calling the guy a liar because for all I know, he could be telling the truth. But do we know he is not telling the truth? Are we sure that we got the whole story? I am not. Something like that is he said she said and I am not a fan of that.
Now why don't put this argument to rest?
The business person in me has this thought.
I am president of Roland. I make products that people buy in droves and people like the sound of. I have been making these produtcts for 20 years, and have stood the test of time. My company is making money, I am getting return customers and new customers every day. Yet there is a section of the population that doesn't like my product. They say it relies too heavily on the success of the past and is not "innovative" enough. They say my corporate strategy sucks and my marketing is cheesy and I have no ethics.
Now, I can do two things. 1. I can continue as I have been doing for 20 years or 2. I can change my direction to satisfy the vocal malcontents (no offense). Option 1 seems very logical. Option 2 seems very logical but you run the risk of losing your existing customer base - which is the worst business decision someone can make (think about it. Roland stops making the gear that has been successful for them for 20 years, so their users throw their hands up and say "they aren't going to support me anymore!" Word spreads, noones buying roland gear, the company flounders.)
If you don't like their gear, fine. But there are alot of people who like what they make and are willing to pay for it. A lot of people like Akai samplers, and a lot of people don't like Akai samplers. What's the difference?
I read that piece about the guy getting shafted by Roland and that sucks. Have we verified the truth of that story? I am not calling the guy a liar because for all I know, he could be telling the truth. But do we know he is not telling the truth? Are we sure that we got the whole story? I am not. Something like that is he said she said and I am not a fan of that.
Now why don't put this argument to rest?
Message 35/42 07-Jan-00 @ 02:18 PM - RE: Roland sucks
No one is saying that Roland is going to change, that's the point. Hopefully newcomers to the world of synths can read chats like these and think twice about getting sucked in to buying a product that is made not to be innovative or quality, but to bring in the big sales. That is why Access is doing so well. That is why Future Retro has had a 7 week waiting list since it hit the market and why Jomox is taking thousands of orders for the Sun Syn which no one has even touched. These companies are the "high end" of a market that has many levels of quality. Roland sucks because they charge high end prices for mid grade gear. Plain and simple. No one can argue that the construction of Roland goods;ie. plastic, is better than that of wood, metal, and rubber knobs. If Roland put out a real analogue beast, people would buy it up. hell, I would buy it! But they don't because they suck. Sorry
Message 36/42 07-Jan-00 @ 02:18 PM - RE: Roland sucks
No one is saying that Roland is going to change, that's the point. Hopefully newcomers to the world of synths can read chats like these and think twice about getting sucked in to buying a product that is made not to be innovative or quality, but to bring in the big sales. That is why Access is doing so well. That is why Future Retro has had a 7 week waiting list since it hit the market and why Jomox is taking thousands of orders for the Sun Syn which no one has even touched. These companies are the "high end" of a market that has many levels of quality. Roland sucks because they charge high end prices for mid grade gear. Plain and simple. No one can argue that the construction of Roland goods;ie. plastic, is better than that of wood, metal, and rubber knobs. If Roland put out a real analogue beast, people would buy it up. hell, I would buy it! But they don't because they suck. Sorry
Message 37/42 07-Jan-00 @ 02:48 PM - RE: Roland sucks
I just don`t like the way they make these toys (and I`m not including JPs in that sweeping statement), charge a LOT of money 4 them, and try and market them as "serious" music making tools.
Yam and Korg have looked at the money Roland r making out of it and followed suit, but the difference is they make sure its a quality, useable piece.
Yam and Korg have looked at the money Roland r making out of it and followed suit, but the difference is they make sure its a quality, useable piece.
Message 38/42 07-Jan-00 @ 03:38 PM - RE: Roland sucks
they make a lot of products too..maybe if they could just focus a little more on one thing. like those overpriced hard dick recorders. or those horrible pitchbend/modwheel-in-one thingys...bla bla bla bla bla 
(
(
Message 39/42 07-Jan-00 @ 11:29 PM - RE: Roland sucks
Yamaha makes motor cycles and they make damn good samplers (from what I hear - never used one myself). My Korg has a modwheel/pitchbend thingy. I'm sorry, but I just don't see the "cheapness" to their products. I have to qualify that with the fact that I don't own any of their products, but from the complaints out there about build quality, I can't say they sound any different. People critized the RM1X for having crappy knobs, but I don't see it. Mine feels fine to me. I couldn't pick the unit up by a knob, but I wouldn't try that either. The modwheel/pitchbend is kind of anying at times, but I can't complain. Respectfully, I don't see Roland doing anything different than other companies. If that's the complaint, well, I guess I should start a thread that says "Korg sucks!" and "Yamaha sucks". I'm not trying to dis anyones opinion here, honestly, I just disagree. Access, Waldorf, Jamox et. al. are great products, but they won't always appeal to everyone. Some companies are agressive, others conservative, others in the middle. Roland appears to be on the conservative side, but I can't hold that against them. I have to say I don't care for their products, but if they come out with something new, I'm gonna give it a chance and not just say "hey - another shit 'groove' box from Roland." I paid around the same money for my Korg as I could have on a Roland synth, but I liked the sounds of the Korg more. (funny, I am thinking of ditching the Korg for a Microwave XT :-)
Is it really "Roland sucks!" or "I really hate the sound of Rolands gear and the knobs on the front!"?
Is it really "Roland sucks!" or "I really hate the sound of Rolands gear and the knobs on the front!"?
Message 40/42 08-Jan-00 @ 10:55 AM - RE: Roland sucks
No, its: "I hate the corporate attitude of Roland". People deserve more 4 their money.
Message 41/42 08-Jan-00 @ 05:14 PM - RE: Roland sucks
hey, defector, i think that korg's modwhell/pitchbend in one are cool as shit. roland's just plain suck
just kidding. i don't care. people should buy european, especially german when it comes to dsp synths, then get on with life. my thought. no offense roland users. offense to the company
just kidding. i don't care. people should buy european, especially german when it comes to dsp synths, then get on with life. my thought. no offense roland users. offense to the company
Message 42/42 09-Jan-00 @ 11:02 AM - RE: Roland sucks
guys... i think we just lost the Roland contract - :-)..
heh heh - reminds me of a joke - Bernard Matthews, (a huge brit turkey-meat product company owner) goes to see the pope, and says:
"Your Holiness, if you could just change the Lords prayer to say... 'Give us this day our daily TURKEY' ... we'd make alot of money, and we'll give you a million..."
:
the pope says he can't do that
so Bernard Matthews says the same request, but offers him 5 million... again the pope refuses, and again and again, until Matthews reaches an offer of 20 million $'s, then the pope accepts the ofer and promises he'll change the Lords prayer...
anyways - the Pope call's a meeting of the cardinals, and says: "I got good news and bad news" -
"give us the good news first" says the cardinals...
"ok, we just won a 20 million contract"
"and the bad news?"
"we lost the Hovis account"
heh heh - reminds me of a joke - Bernard Matthews, (a huge brit turkey-meat product company owner) goes to see the pope, and says:
"Your Holiness, if you could just change the Lords prayer to say... 'Give us this day our daily TURKEY' ... we'd make alot of money, and we'll give you a million..."
:
the pope says he can't do that
so Bernard Matthews says the same request, but offers him 5 million... again the pope refuses, and again and again, until Matthews reaches an offer of 20 million $'s, then the pope accepts the ofer and promises he'll change the Lords prayer...
anyways - the Pope call's a meeting of the cardinals, and says: "I got good news and bad news" -
"give us the good news first" says the cardinals...
"ok, we just won a 20 million contract"
"and the bad news?"
"we lost the Hovis account"
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