Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: That Mysterious Professional Sound
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Original Message 1/43 22-Aug-00 @ 07:00 PM - That Mysterious Professional Sound
Thanks!
Azazello
Message 2/43 23-Aug-00 @ 02:19 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
I'm not really into drum & bass.
/Secluded
Message 3/43 24-Aug-00 @ 04:13 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR SOUND.
it will consume you in the end, it will stop you from making tunes, just because you want THAT sound.
either invest in highend machines like a TC finalizer, Drawmer tube compressors,a lexicon reverb, and a eventide harmonizer as well as an aural exiter and prof cd mastering software/
hardware or forget about it.(and i am talking mega bucks here;i am not sure where u live but to put it in euro's:around 6000/8000 will get you somewhere.)
maybe i am exagurating slightly, but to really get THAT sound it is what you need.just make your tunes sound as good as you can, cos when u get signed the record company will master it for you. they have alkl the stuff that you need.
man it stops so much creativity, searching and trying and remixing and looking for that sound...
this is good advice.my friend has a finalizer from the company he works for,
and just put a rough mix trough that machine already makes you desperate for wanting one yourself.
let your creative juices flow, instead of getting frustrated.
but it must be said; a few cheaper
solutions: a compressor, a gate, a dbx denoiser, a bbe sub/high enhancer and a good equalizer will satisfy you good enough.but it is not THAT sound.ask any engineer.
driftkicker.
Message 4/43 24-Aug-00 @ 08:48 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Message 5/43 25-Aug-00 @ 02:32 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
But i would be still worrying and wondering how much better i would be if i bought this and that... but now i think i need EQ and compressor.................................... shit
Message 6/43 25-Aug-00 @ 01:19 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
if you want it on the cheap, use soundforge multiband compression and then run it through the waves L1 maximizer.
the multiband compression is what "tightens" up the whole thing and polishes it.
the limiter (L1) makes it as loud as possible, use it sparingly or it will make your stuff sound rubbish (as they say in the UK)
i personally feel that mastering is something i want to know how to do because afterall, i am making the track and i want to know how it sounds from beginning to end.
i have sent stuff off and had it mastered and it was "ok" but nothing special.
i am interested in the creative uses of mastering for enhancing the style and things i like about my music so that is why i am learning to master.
but to cyclop's point i haven't made much music in the past year since i started playing with mastering!
but i have a desire to know how to do it all so i will continue the long slow process.
my next twist is to buy some expensive outboard gear (not much more expensive than plug ins thought) so i don't have to screw with the computer for mastering.
if you do decide to play with mastering make sure you record off your original track unmastered because if you do get signed they probably won't want your master unless you have it dead on or they are too cheap to have it mastered professionally.
so if you want to learn mastering, do it because it can only add to your knowledge and abilities. just keep in mind that it will take away from your music time.
good luck
jamey
Message 7/43 25-Aug-00 @ 03:39 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
And parametric EQ is essential for mastering, really. I use the four band EQ on the stereo buss of my 01V which works well, the graphic curve display makes it easy to set up. The three main fixes I use are:
1) Roll of everything below 60Hz unless you've got a 5-grand monitoring system and a good room. Use a HPF for this, tune it around 60Hz (± 5Hz) according to the material. This can make a huge difference in clarity. Lots of muddy, undefined bass can occur if your speakers don't go down that far and/or your room is playing tricks on you, so cutting it all out is the best way to go.
2) Cut the mids - a broad bell curve (Q of about 1) on the mid range with a 3dB cut does wonders for many mixes. Everything becomes more open.
3) High end shelving boost of 2-3dB. Adds air and a touch of sparkle. An exciter can usually give better results here, unless you've got a ten-grand mastering EQ that is.
Another parametric band can be used to EQ out problem frequencies, usually around the low-mid area where you can get a 'thunk' that stands out. Use a sharp Q setting with several dB of cut and tune it until you hit the spot. Then ease up on the cut - you should rarely go over 3 dB either way.
Try some of those techniques on an old track. You should really separate the mastering process from everything else - get the mix down on CD or DAT first, make sure you're satisfied with the musical side of things before you start mastering, otherwise it gets confusing and muddled.
Message 8/43 25-Aug-00 @ 07:37 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
did you see the new focusrite mixmaster? its pretty sweet looking... 3 band multi compressor, eq, limiter etc all analogue and it only costs like $1100us
i am thinking about getting one from santa this year and running my o1v into it :-)
www.focusrite.com
later
jamey
Message 9/43 26-Aug-00 @ 05:17 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
I'd say go for it - mastering is a great skill to have, and very satisfying too. Plus you can do other people's tracks as a favour, or for a small fee...
Message 10/43 26-Aug-00 @ 01:15 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Message 11/43 26-Aug-00 @ 04:25 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
i haven't seen behringer here in the states since all of those lawsuits.
jamey
Message 12/43 27-Aug-00 @ 04:51 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Sound is subjective, but I'd rather stick with TC's algorithms. They have a history in mastering (M5000's multiband programs are used in many mastering suites) and the technology has trickled down into the Finalizer series. Same with Focusrite - their Blue series is used in lots of mastering facilities.
Message 13/43 30-Aug-00 @ 05:57 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Anyone used Ultrafex? How is it? I considered it but ended up buying vitalizer...
Message 14/43 01-Sep-00 @ 08:35 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Using a compressor on the bass sounds alone makes mixing the whole track that mutch easier, mainly I can get the kick to sit over a really bassy line and not lose it's definition.
Message 15/43 01-Sep-00 @ 08:45 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
There are no pre-sets on the one I'm using...
Message 16/43 02-Sep-00 @ 05:31 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
How many bands is it? Can you adjust the crossover frequencies? What other settings can you adjust? What ranges do they have?? Tell me more and I can help...
Message 17/43 02-Sep-00 @ 06:51 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
otherwise i will try to remember to go in and write down what all the settings are.
jamey
Message 18/43 02-Sep-00 @ 08:05 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
It's 4 band, and I think each band has it's own frequency parameters - which means it should cross-over.
Message 19/43 02-Sep-00 @ 08:42 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Those are the basics, but try your own settings to tailor it to your own material.
Message 20/43 04-Sep-00 @ 04:50 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
the black art is being exposed! :-)
chris, did johnny sort you out or you still want me to email the preset?
jamey
Message 21/43 04-Sep-00 @ 05:53 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
(serious head on now).........
But in all seriousness, mastering seems to be the last facet of recording that's still perceived as being 'best left to the pros only'. Over the years advances in technology have brought many processes to the masses (synths, samplers, mixers, FX, recorders) that were once deemed 'pro only' and the skill level of those using them has increased accordingly, to the extent that there are many more competent home-studio based engineers/recording artists than there ever were. I think it's started to happen with mastering now - the technology is there to be used, but as always the skill of the person operating it has a large say in how 'pro' the results are, no different to using synths, samplers, mixers and such. Given the tools anyone can do it, but like anything else only few can do it really well. It's also something you can mess with when the compositional juices are running dry - leave a stockpile of old mixes to polish when you feel like a change. That's the best way to learn how to do it, trial and error - see what parameters do what.
Home mastering, the next big thing.
Message 22/43 05-Sep-00 @ 02:22 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Formant - yeah, I'd appreciate your presets: chris@purusha.demon.co.uk
It'll be nice to have a starting point.
I'll give all this a try after the weekend, since I've got a gig coming up on Friday.
Cheers!
Message 23/43 05-Sep-00 @ 05:06 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
jamey
Message 24/43 05-Sep-00 @ 09:58 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Where do I get one of them new-fangled multi-band do-hickeys for VST? Hmm? On the cheap - if not free. Heh-heh.
Message 25/43 06-Sep-00 @ 03:30 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
A few more questions though (hopefully of interest to others too)...
I guess that before the multi-band compression is used, the audio track should be normalised by peak? Otherwise the compression mechanism might not hit suitable threshholds...
Would you suggest re-normalising after the compression too?
Any advantages / disadvantages to doing this?
What advantage is there in using a limter at the end of the process (as suggested by Johnny)? Is there something special about the Waves L1?
Any other processes people can recommend?
Message 26/43 06-Sep-00 @ 01:44 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
With fast enough attack/release times you can limit by several dB without any side effects, resulting in a much louder track.
Normalizing should be done before compression for the reason you mention, in any situation gain optimization is always best done as early as possible in the processing chain. If the compressor and limiter is set up correctly, you shouldn't need to apply normalization after compression/limiting because the track will be regularly peaking at 0dB, with no headroom left to be exploited.
Hope that makes some sort of sense...
Message 27/43 06-Sep-00 @ 08:17 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Message 28/43 07-Sep-00 @ 02:32 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
--------------------------------------
-Behringer Composer (compressor) - 299 pounds
-Behringer Dualfex EX-2200 (sound processor) - 199 pounds
-Behringer Ultrabass PRO EX-1200 (bass booster) - 199 pounds
--------------------------------------
Peace.
Message 29/43 07-Sep-00 @ 08:56 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Message 30/43 07-Sep-00 @ 01:34 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Message 31/43 12-Sep-00 @ 05:03 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Message 32/43 12-Sep-00 @ 07:32 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
the ideal setup? all behringer!?! I kinda doubt it.
Message 33/43 19-Sep-00 @ 08:07 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
later
jamey
Message 34/43 19-Sep-00 @ 04:06 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
/thanks in advance
Message 35/43 05-Oct-00 @ 05:21 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
own a Finalizer96k and TC works Spark
1.5 software which are the very best for
home mastering.You need high end
monitors not super high end I use fostex
ps3 system and it sounds great but put
it in a small system like a ghetto
blaster w/o much bass and it still
sucks.I'm deciding between Hafler
TRM-8,KRK V8,or HHB monitors has anyone
had any experience w/ these monitors?I
know mastering w/ a sub sucks because a
system w/o a sub sounds
tinny................
Message 36/43 05-Oct-00 @ 06:04 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
most likely the room you are in doesn't have perfect acoustics anyway so just understand how they sounds.
i just upgraded from the alesis monitor ones to the new alesis M1s and they are tons better in the mid range than my monitor ones were. but i still check my mastering on a boom box and in my car to be sure.
hope this helps
jamey
Message 37/43 06-Oct-00 @ 04:58 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
good,at the big studio through several
different monitors and it sounded good
but I put it in a boom box and bam
complete treble.Ispent so much on high
end gear I forgot to budget for speakers
and ended up w/ these.I'm sorry I went
off on you but I had a really messed up
experience when I was small and I listen
to my mom talk about jesus all the time
while she chain smokes drinks and pops
pills.I'm just tired of seeing all the
static that religion causes and it just
hits me below the
belt....................................
Message 38/43 06-Oct-00 @ 05:56 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
Message 39/43 06-Oct-00 @ 07:29 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
sub??????????
Message 40/43 06-Oct-00 @ 01:55 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
anyway, i always mix too bass heavy so i try and overcompensate by cutting a lot of bass... normally to see if i got it right i get in the corner of my room and if you close your eyes it sounds just like a club (well maybe). the bass tends to accumulate in the corners for some reason.
as for mixing with a proper sub monitor, i used the event dealie with the separate mid/tops and then the sub for the lows.
couldn't stand it.
all the bass was coming from below me and the mids and highs from the normal spot. drove me crazy.
i am lucky enough to get to play my stuff in a club when i actually finish a track (doesn't happen that often) and it always matches up with however it sounded in my car. (except the car sounds a bit better :-)
jamey
Message 41/43 08-Oct-00 @ 10:38 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
H
Message 42/43 09-Oct-00 @ 01:08 PM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
put up a 1 min 44.1 and i will re-download it and give you an opinion of how it sounds on my monitors.
jamey
Message 43/43 11-Oct-00 @ 04:16 AM - RE: That Mysterious Professional Sound
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