so whats this scale? - Theory / composition / technique forums

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Subject: so whats this scale?

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Original Message 1/27 12-Feb-01 @ 07:38 PM - so whats this scale?

0/d

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I just finished 2 tracks with the scale above,got some lovely strings,pads and chords out of it,anyone know what it is? it would be nice to know what it is and what kind of relevance it has.

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Message 2/27 13-Feb-01 @ 12:23 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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Transpose it down one semi-tone, and it will be clear :
C D E F G A Bb

I'm not sure, but I think the following is true:
C E G Bb is C7
C E G Bb D is C9
C E G Bb D F is C11
C E G Bb D F A is C13

If this is right, the scale you have is C#13

Heck if I know. Does it matter what it's called ?

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Message 3/27 13-Feb-01 @ 12:25 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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Trying again:Transpose it down one semi-tone, and it will be clear : C D E F G A BbI'm not sure, but I think the following is true:
C E G Bb is C7
C E G Bb D is C9
C E G Bb D F is C11
C E G Bb D F A is C13
If this is right, the scale you have is C#13
Heck if I know. Does it matter what it's called ?

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Message 4/27 13-Feb-01 @ 01:26 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

pict

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C# Mixolydian mode.It's a very commonly used mode in Celtic music and Jazz.If you raise the B note in the scale you get a C# Major scale.Mixolydian mode sounds good with dominant 7th chords.Listen to Miles Davis' album "A kind of Blue" and you'll get a good idea of how modes can be used.

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Message 5/27 13-Feb-01 @ 01:54 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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I suppose C#13 would be the name of the chord you get if you hit all those notes at once.

A scale consisting of those notes would be a F# major scale.

I'm still guessing here.

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Message 6/27 13-Feb-01 @ 12:38 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

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The scale of F# Major has the same notes as the C# Mixolydian mode and the A Flat Dorian mode and the B Lydian mode etc. but as the scale O/d has shown starts on C# then I presume that to be the root.If that is the case then the scale shown is the C# Mixolydian mode.

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Message 7/27 13-Feb-01 @ 01:07 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

casparproject

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yeah, it could be a C#13 or a C# mixolydian.

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Message 8/27 13-Feb-01 @ 09:48 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

0/d

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funny,its a jazz scale?The track was a real jazzy house electro mish mash(!),just one thing i was wondering,is why does the B only work with the piano and keys,i had on string that used B for a bar or so and it just about destroyed the whole progression of the track.why is this? (and what does Mixolydian mean?)

(sorry about this,my theory other than ear is non existant)

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Message 9/27 15-Feb-01 @ 03:02 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

pict

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It's not a Jazz scale per se but it is used a lot more often in Jazz than it is in other forms of popular music.

The modes are basically just scales if you played the white keys of the keyboard starting on C and played only the white keys until you came to the next C an octave higher you would have played the C Ionian mode also known as the C Major scale.If you then started on the D and played only the white keys until you reached the next D an octave higher you would have played the D Dorian mode.If you look at the C Major scale you can see that it has a pattern of gaps between each note in the scale so C D E F G A B C has a pattern starting from the root note in this case C of 2 2 1 2 2 2 1
(2 notes between C&D 2 notes between D&E 1 note between E&F etc.)

If you then look at the gap pattern between the notes of the D Dorian mode you will see that it has a gap pattern of 2 1 2 2 2 1 2 now if you take that gap pattern and start from the C note you will be playing the C Dorian mode which has a totally different sound from the C Ionian mode or C Major scale as it is now called.The different tonalities you get from each mode are very useful for coming up with interesting melodies.

So to figure out the gap or step pattern for the different modes all you have to do is start from each note of the C Major scale and play only the white keys like so

C to C is the Ionian mode(Major scale)

D to D is the D Dorian mode

E to E is the E Phrygian mode

F to F is the F Lydian mode

G t G is the G Mixolydian mode

A to A is the A Aeolian mode(The Natural minor scale)

B to B is the B Locrian mode

The modes are named after the most important of the ancient Greek tribes look at the keyboard diagram above for an example of the D Dorian and the E phrygian modes the D Dorian is at the lower end of the keyboard in this example does that make it any clearer?

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Message 10/27 15-Feb-01 @ 04:05 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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D Dorian

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Message 11/27 15-Feb-01 @ 04:08 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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C Dorian

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Message 12/27 15-Feb-01 @ 04:10 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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This is C Dorian not the above one

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Message 13/27 15-Feb-01 @ 04:14 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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E Phrygian

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Message 14/27 15-Feb-01 @ 04:16 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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C Phrygian

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Message 15/27 15-Feb-01 @ 10:08 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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Pict, that's an excellent and easy to understand description. Thanks.

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Message 16/27 15-Feb-01 @ 02:19 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

0/d

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pict,thats excellent,thanks for taking the time to go through all that.

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Message 17/27 15-Feb-01 @ 03:21 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

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Glad to be of service.

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Message 18/27 16-Feb-01 @ 11:54 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

0/d

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This is hard to explain,but i was just reading through all that again,i was just thinking about all this root note stuff,how does a root note work,is it the note which actually holds the track(melody,even to the pitch of the drums),like something everything else works off,or is it the note which defines the scale and the actual tone of the following notes to be used.for example,the song that used the scale at the top was held by F#,would this make it the root note (as just about every other note in combination with it would work)what is this called?

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Message 19/27 17-Feb-01 @ 03:38 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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In a C Major triad(3 note chord) the root note would be C the 3rd would be E and the 5th would be G.The root note in the key of C Major is C that is the note that all other notes in the scale of C Major relate to.

A simple way of figuring out what triads occur naturally in a scale is to use the following method.If you take the C Major scale as an example we have the notes C D E F G A B C now if you start with the C note then miss out a note then take the E note miss a note and take the G note,combine those three notes with C being the lowest in pitch followed by E followed by G and you have a C Major triad.Now start with the D note and then miss out a note choose F miss out a note choose A and combine those notes in same way as you did with the C and you will have a D minor triad.

Start on the E now and do the same thing you will get an E minor triad do this with the remaining notes and you will get an F major triad,G major triad,A minor triad,B diminished triad and then again a C major triad an octave higher and you have discovered all the triads in the key of C Major.

Now if you take the notes C D E F G A B C again and assign each of them a number(normally using Roman numerals I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII,I = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1)you can then use those numbers to understand chord progressions as in a I,IV,V(1,4,5)progression consists of a triad built from the first note of the scale in this case the key of C Major or 1st chord is C Major(C,E,G).followed by a chord built from the 4th note of the scale in this case F Major(F,A,C)then a chord built from the 5th note of the scale in this case G Major(G,B,D).

In a I,IV,V(1,4,5)chord progression in the key of C Major we then have the I chord(C Major C,E,G)the IV chord(F Major F,A,C)and the V chord(G Major G,B,D).Starting with the C chord if you play that followed by the F chord then the G chord and then back to the C chord you will hear how these chords naturally work together and the G chord always sounds like it naturally comes to rest(resolves) at the C chord that is because the C chord is the root chord in that key.The sound of the 5th chord moving or falling to the 1st chord is called the perfect cadence(from the Latin word meaning "to fall").If you use this method with all the Major scales you will be able to find all the naturally occuring triads in any key and it also means that you can easily transfer(transpose) a chord progression into another key very easily.Try it what would the chords in a II,V,I chord progression in the key of C consist of?

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Message 20/27 17-Feb-01 @ 11:58 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

dieter.vansteenwegen

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Is there anyone who has/knows a decent website where I could learn chords etc...
I only need the basics right now, so that I could start learning.
Thanx,

Dieter,
Belgium

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Message 21/27 17-Feb-01 @ 12:15 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

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Dieter,

I'd say go to a bookstore and see what you can find about harmony. This sort of thing is easier to get from a book than from a computer. That's my experience anyway.

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Message 22/27 19-Feb-01 @ 07:00 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

0/d

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Its difficult to understand that reading it on the screen,i'm gonna print it out and use the keyboard in front of me while reading it.

Go raibh maith agat...

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Message 23/27 19-Feb-01 @ 07:56 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

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'S E do bheatha a bhalaich.(Na abair e)

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Message 24/27 19-Feb-01 @ 08:12 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

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Jalla jalla

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Message 25/27 19-Feb-01 @ 08:29 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

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It's Scots and Irish Gaelic gb.

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Message 26/27 19-Feb-01 @ 11:01 PM - RE: so whats this scale?

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Ifrinn an Diabhuil! A Dhia, thoir cobhair!

Oidhche mhath, cha ghabh mi 'n c�rr, tapa leibh, mo br�thair.

Jalla jalla.

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Message 27/27 20-Feb-01 @ 01:45 AM - RE: so whats this scale?

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The Gaels are starting to howl;)

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