Forums - Drums / rhythms / programming
Subject: Drum'N'Bass Area
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Original Message 1/89 16-Oct-99 @ 07:30 PM - Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 2/89 17-Oct-99 @ 12:58 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 3/89 17-Oct-99 @ 01:55 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
I've only jst had my setup, and belive me trying to programm tunes that the top artists do is not easy at all. It's not just programming the tune, it's programming the actuall sound aswell. I know someone who releasesn records, but i wont say who. he gets a straight drum loop from Warefare, then a bass loop then just puts them together. thats what i don't want to do.
What bout you? You do Drum'n'bass?
Message 4/89 18-Oct-99 @ 04:39 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
I work with all kinds of teens/young adults and all they listen to is 2 step. These are the people who buy the records and go to the d n'b events. Jungle at present is being ignored by the clubs/larger record co.'s in favour of garage/house and it's main popularity seems to be with the youth (or with the advertising people for some reason. Even they associate it with "youth" culture).
sox
Message 5/89 18-Oct-99 @ 12:10 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 6/89 18-Oct-99 @ 06:22 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 7/89 18-Oct-99 @ 06:31 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
The 2 step programm can get a little boring, so try it with some variation. Sorry my groove won't fit on the grid cus it's in 8th's i think, but i've included a midi file.
get a drum loop sample, slice it with kik c1, snare c#1, hats d1. And tell me what you think
Message 8/89 19-Oct-99 @ 08:16 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 10/89 21-Oct-99 @ 03:53 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 11/89 23-Oct-99 @ 08:24 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 12/89 26-Oct-99 @ 08:37 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
gabba under some nice minor 7th chords?
Message 13/89 27-Oct-99 @ 03:28 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Do you think he use breackbeats or it's a single instrument midi programming???
See Ya!!!
Message 14/89 27-Oct-99 @ 03:51 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 15/89 27-Oct-99 @ 04:20 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 16/89 27-Oct-99 @ 05:49 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 17/89 27-Oct-99 @ 06:23 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 18/89 27-Oct-99 @ 11:59 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 19/89 28-Oct-99 @ 02:12 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Other than that though, everything else is done on Cubase VST (PC).
Message 20/89 28-Oct-99 @ 07:47 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
sounds???that's(my!!!)question!!!
Message 21/89 28-Oct-99 @ 11:37 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Since your a real drummer rather than exclusively programming, can you offer us any hints into getting our grooves to sound more human?
Message 22/89 28-Oct-99 @ 01:26 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 23/89 28-Oct-99 @ 06:54 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
The stuff I do is based on having a live feel to it and isn't quantised to death. So when I play it for the hardcore junglists their first comment is usually "the drums sound weird. They're not quantised" I hope to post an MP3 soon to the site so people can check out our material.
Helpful Hints:
1)Try to play the stuff in half time (ie. 85 BPM) then double time it. Do this via MIDI so when you speed it up you don't change the pitch of the samples (assuming you're using a sampler and then you can control their pitch. I use an s950).
2)Use "Iterative quantise" and not "over quantise" or "note on quantise". This will gradually move your beats into place and not slot them in all at once.
3)Try and play the beats in as much as possible (don't forget you can slow the sequencer down to a tempo you can handle. Record it, put it at the tempo you want and then sample it)
4)Learn the Funk!! Cold Sweat by James Brown is the premier beat to mess around with for jungle. Learn it and then do a version of your own. Proper jungle kicks because it's got the funk, only sped up. (Listen to the original jungle stuff and slow it down by 50%=Funk/Hip Hop).
5) If you write the beats in, don't be afraid to kick the snares forward slightly (turn quantise off is best) to make the groove feel anticipated. Like the drummer is sitting on the beat rather than relaxing with it.
6) Probably "THE" most aspect of getting a live feel is the velocities of the beats. A drummer is constantly hitting things at different velocities (hard and soft).
Randomise your velocities or spend hours doing it by hand (fnarr fnarr). The results will be well worth it.
Experiment with the different accents and find your own voice.
And like Kilo says in another part of the site: "Learn to play a drum. Any drum." It will help you in so many ways as a musician. Whether you're a vocalist/guitarist/keyboardist or whatever. Nothing will improve your playing more.
Message 24/89 28-Oct-99 @ 11:01 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 25/89 29-Oct-99 @ 03:13 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 26/89 30-Oct-99 @ 02:07 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
With the snare, you can add a bit of bottom, low mid etc..personal preferencve really, but i like my snare to sound wodden, if you know what i mean.
Can't wait to hear your demos Sox
Message 27/89 30-Oct-99 @ 05:31 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 28/89 30-Oct-99 @ 07:51 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 29/89 30-Oct-99 @ 07:58 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 31/89 31-Oct-99 @ 03:57 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 32/89 31-Oct-99 @ 07:14 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
I'm an Ultra user aswell.
My friend,s just bought an Akai CD3000xl, there's things you can do on that that the emu can't. but there's things on the Emu that the Akai can't.
It all comes down to what features you like and if your gonna use,em. Oh yea, the Akai is not as user friendly as the Emu.
I love my ultra, but i think i'm gonna get an Akai aswell, so i'll have the best of both worlds.
Message 33/89 31-Oct-99 @ 08:17 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 34/89 31-Oct-99 @ 09:08 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
I wanted a real simple and friendly interface for sampling...Ahhh, ESI-4000 w128MB with ZIP drive...E4 next. Just waiting for my stock options to get more vested.
About the EQ: suck out the region between the fundamental bass and the kik drum to clear up minor problems.
Message 35/89 01-Nov-99 @ 09:53 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Does anyone have any good recommendations for what equipment would be good ie - drum machine or sampler for producing a wide range of sounds (beats, jungle, etc)?
Someone has informed me that the MPC2000XL is easy to use and you can basically take the sounds from any drum machine.
Anyway your input is appreciated.
Thanks Cal.
Message 36/89 01-Nov-99 @ 10:44 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Drum machines offer portability and lots of tricks in one box. The sampling drum machines are very fast and intuitive also. If you want full flexability and to sound like whatever you want then look at some high end samplers like the rack mount EMU's and AKAI's. The MPC's are a bit lacking in the filter area.
Message 37/89 02-Nov-99 @ 12:10 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 38/89 02-Nov-99 @ 07:49 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
I have started cutting breaks from jazz drum solos ,snares sounds good,Kicks not so much and groove is missing.What is your way of working?
See ya!
Message 39/89 02-Nov-99 @ 09:22 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
thanks
Message 40/89 02-Nov-99 @ 11:15 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Check out Emus also, far easier to use, better filters, better synth capabilities you programm it like a modular synth.
But there are little things that Akai do that Emus can't, and there are things Emu's do that Akai can't.
If you want Breakbeats, check out sample cd's which are the essential source for breaks, unless you have thousands of 70's rare groove/ hip hop/ soul/ jazz records to sample from.
If you send me an e mail, i'll link you to someone in the uk selling original cd's at knockdown prices
Message 41/89 03-Nov-99 @ 05:47 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
What I wolud would like to know is the way you work to obtain a breackbeat,if you use groove with drum only or not ,drum solos and so on .
To begin what do you exactly mean with breackbeat,coz I guess there is a litlle misunderstoodment in terminology.
Thank you again,see you soon.
Message 42/89 03-Nov-99 @ 06:05 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 44/89 03-Nov-99 @ 06:52 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Can you suggest me any BreackBeats records?I suppose yes!
And how do you works on them ?Do you use Recycle?
Excuse me ,but I'm hungry of information!!
Message 45/89 03-Nov-99 @ 07:05 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 46/89 04-Nov-99 @ 11:02 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 47/89 04-Nov-99 @ 12:15 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 48/89 04-Nov-99 @ 04:13 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
See ya.
P.S:I mean records to sample from.
Message 49/89 04-Nov-99 @ 07:42 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Hey old miss penny wickle, how about sending me a midi file of your bass lines? I'll add my breaks to them, as i'm more of a drum programmer.
Message 50/89 04-Nov-99 @ 08:26 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
penny
Message 51/89 05-Nov-99 @ 01:37 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Peaceout
Message 52/89 05-Nov-99 @ 01:38 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 53/89 05-Nov-99 @ 05:53 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 54/89 05-Nov-99 @ 07:13 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 55/89 05-Nov-99 @ 11:16 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
P.S.-I'm not trying to patronize or brown-nose you or anything but I've run into you in threads all over the place and you know your shit. Post a groove some time.
Message 56/89 06-Nov-99 @ 05:36 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 57/89 07-Nov-99 @ 05:05 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Peaceout
Message 58/89 07-Nov-99 @ 07:14 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 59/89 07-Nov-99 @ 09:34 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
One thing that I do to come up with good sounds is to sample other peoples drum n bass breaks that I really like and put em on my trigger board. Then I just use them as reference in order to get similar qualities out of my own samples on adjacent keys. I keep them in my sampler but never use em for my own work. Try it sometime. You'd be suprised how much more you can get out of your own stuff if you can A/B to commercial releases that easily.
So what does Sox do that you cant? (perhaps I missed something there).
Message 60/89 07-Nov-99 @ 05:54 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
my grooves and don't program them in which gives my stuff a completely original feel.
'Nuff respect to R-tek. He's hit the nail right on the head "it don`t make what I`m doin` any less valid". There is no such thing as good or bad music, only different. (That comment will probably start off a whole new thread now
Message 61/89 07-Nov-99 @ 06:34 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 62/89 07-Nov-99 @ 07:17 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
You should sample your friend(or maybe you do already) and use the grooves. It would be quite interesting to hear his pots and pans in the music. You'd probably be surprised how many #1 hits have snare drums that are actually cardboard boxes.
Message 63/89 07-Nov-99 @ 09:06 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Would you be able to do breaks like that? It seems all the drum groove cd's that are coming out, they're too clean if you know what i mean, they don't sound anywhere like the Amens, Funky Drummer's etcv..
Message 64/89 08-Nov-99 @ 11:48 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 65/89 08-Nov-99 @ 05:42 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
I think the best way to recreate this (short of having V-Drums) is to go and use very old equipment to record with. CD's and the like are cleaned up and eq'ed up for maximum sonic quality. But like you say, it loses something in the translation.
What you're asking is an interesting question which I think I'm going to try. Can I recreate the feeling of the 60's/70's loops via my MIDI kit? I can (and do) recreate that feel/sound on my live kit and I think I can do it via the MIDI kit (Yamaha DTX v.2) but it's something I've never really thought about. Kilo and I will be getting together soon so hopefully we'll be able to get that kind of sound that everyone is searching for.
You should also check a book called "The Big Beat" by Max Weinberg (Bruce Springsteens drummer) in which he interviews all of his drumming heroes from the 60's and 70's. They talk a lot about the recording techniques used at the time. I think it's out of print but you should still be able to find a copy. I know you can still find it on Tottenham Ct. Rd (Foyles?). I also think he did a sequel "The Big Beat 2". Although I've never seen a copy I'd like to get one (the sequel that is, I've got the other one)
Message 66/89 08-Nov-99 @ 08:19 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
It's great to hear from a live drummer.
One more thing, have you heard a track called Second Movement by Krust? Drums on that are real DOPE!!
Shit knows how he did it, i mean the sequencing's easy to do, but it's how the drums actually sound.
Especially the snare, like nothing i've heard b4, not on a D+B tune anyway.
Message 67/89 08-Nov-99 @ 09:04 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 68/89 09-Nov-99 @ 10:48 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 69/89 09-Nov-99 @ 12:34 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 70/89 09-Nov-99 @ 02:35 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
When I'm getting old school style loops I normally use an acoustic kit. I normally use either PZM's or SM58's for mic'ing it up. One or two mic's only and then add crackle and pop from a couple of vinyl samples. For that truly gritty feeling I'll play onto tape and then transfer it into the PC.
I haven't heard the Krust track but my DJ mate (Filthy Rich, he does the www.pirate-radio.co.uk on Thurs 9pm till 10, check it) is going to bring it in for me. Maybe once I've heard it I can explain how he did it.
Message 71/89 09-Nov-99 @ 08:05 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Looking forward for your comments Sox.
Message 72/89 10-Nov-99 @ 12:17 PM - Da BEATS!!!
Here are my thoughts: Some times using loops give's you a sound that you can't get any other way....but there's a lot to be said for building your own drum tracks...I use sequencers from time to time to trigger samples. This let's you create beats exactly the way you want em...but it's hard to keep that open "feel".
Lately I got into creating my own drum tracks by hand using samples. It is the most time consuming...but it let's you have the best of both worlds. On my last track I sampled some "war sounds". Mostly cannons and gun shots...added effects to the drum sounds.
Then I built the entire drum track using these samples...the final result was just what I was looking for...not exactly a DnB track...but the track (Disorder) has great SOUNDING drums and a wild beat.
I created a new band name called "Master Please" for these tracks using the custom drums....if yer curious you can check out the Disorder track here:
http://download02.amp3.net/songs/u04/236/4986/Master_Please-Disorder.mp3
I am just finishing a track called DRUGS...built TWO crazy drum tracks for this song...they are both playing at the same time in stereo....this created a wild effect....I'll post the url to that song when I get it uploaded
Hopefully I'll have a true DnB track ready by that time too. Thanx to all who have been posting in here about how THEY go about creating their stuff....learning some new tricks
Laterz.......Overdrive
Message 73/89 11-Nov-99 @ 12:09 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 74/89 11-Nov-99 @ 04:50 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 75/89 11-Nov-99 @ 05:58 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 76/89 11-Nov-99 @ 07:45 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 77/89 12-Nov-99 @ 11:55 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 78/89 07-Dec-99 @ 11:30 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
I love breabeat and drumandbass and jungle and every genre and sub genre that comes with a half speed big bass line and frenetic beats
My problem is i never knew how to do it .
Thanks some one in the thread for the idea of cutting a 4 bar rythmn in eights and going nuts on your sequencer.
and thanks to the person somewhere on this page who figured out "funky drummer" so that i can play it in my little ol hammerhead.
Just a little something i was doing in order to get good break beats
take a loop...
any loop....
make sure it starts on a kick drum...
call it loop 1
now take that same loop copy it and paste it at the end
cut it just right so that the 4 bar loop starts on a snare and finishes on that same snare
call that loop 2
any other interesting hits in the loop
follow above proceddure to creat loops that start and finish on that hit.
now.
load into your sequncer..
every time you want a kick...loop 1
every time you want a snare ...loop 2
etc..
you can make some very nice rithmns when you use a simple 4/4 beat but eliminate the 2 and 4 kick and use the snare loop at 2 and 4
call it destructo-broken-beaten-houser-of-doom?
Any way my knowledge has increased ten fold because of you guys ... thanks a large bunch
Message 79/89 08-Dec-99 @ 08:51 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 84/89 19-Dec-99 @ 08:17 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
And another thing I glad that I'm getting over my how do I make that sound, b-line, beat sound like dnb producer X. now I'm starting to sound a bit more like me. The big guys and girls aren't there to be emulated they are there to inspire, don't forget that the one constant in dnb as in most electronic music is the need to experiment, break new ground and evolve.
having said all that does anyone know how they get that washy, cymbal sound (used a lot on the amen break)
Message 85/89 20-Dec-99 @ 12:12 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 87/89 10-Jan-00 @ 09:21 AM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 88/89 11-Feb-01 @ 12:59 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
Message 89/89 11-Feb-01 @ 02:59 PM - RE: Drum'N'Bass Area
thought it was long gone
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