 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - Drums / rhythms / programming
Subject: 7/8 sequencing?
Viewing all 19 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2
Original Message 1/19 28-Nov-99 @ 08:19 AM - 7/8 sequencing?
I wanna sequence a jungle rythym in 7/8 time. I read the man like K`s little piece on 3 time but I`m still having a little bit of bother getting me head round it. Is it like: 123,1234,123,1234,123,1234,123,1234,1234 to give 8 bars? Or have I (as I suspect) got this completely wrong? Any help would b appreciated. Ta muchly.
Message 2/19 28-Nov-99 @ 10:18 AM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Generally, a 7/8 rhythm is two 2/4 and one 3/4 put together, i.e. one bar is either 12-12-123, 12-123-12 or 123-12-12. Oh, well I may have gotten it all wrong too.
Message 3/19 28-Nov-99 @ 10:40 AM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
..I was kinda thinking Kick-kick-snare,kick-snare-kick-snare...but it wouldn`t b phrased properly 4 mixing.......I`ve got some 3/4 tunes and even a 5/4 somewhere but I`m not sure this`ll work......I want 2 plat it at 145-150 BPM 2 give the beats more room 2 breath and let in skank along a bit more. Bugger, guess I`ll have 2 wait 4 Sox 2 make an appearance......
Message 4/19 28-Nov-99 @ 02:52 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Yeah, sorry to let you down boyz but you've both got it wrong. What you're actually trying to do is a 7/4 not a 7/8. When you work in a /8 time signature what you're actually doing is doubling what the beats are worth. 7/4=7 beats in a bar and the 1/4 note gets one beat. 7/8=7 beats in a bar and the 1/8 note gets one beat.
Example:in 4/4: each 1/4 note is worth 1 beat (think house bass drum; boom, boom, boom, boom=1 2 3 4)
In 4/8: the 1/4 note bass drum is worth 2 beats. boom-space-boom-space=1 2 3 4. (1/4 note equals crotchet for my UK compatriots).
Where you put the accent is subjective and entirely up to the composer. Example: 1 2 1 2 1 2 1=one bar of 7/4.
1 2 3 1 2 1 2=one bar, 1 2 3 1 2 3 1=one bar etc etc(I think you get the idea).
I've done a bit of experimenting in the past with 7/4 jungle and it seems to work ok. Messes the heads up of the punters though! I think people are so used to having the beat handed to them on a silver platter (ie house/garage, 2 step D'nB) that they don't know how to move their butts to the different groove.
Try dropping in the odd bar of 7 or 5 in the middle of the track to really f**k them up!!
Example:in 4/4: each 1/4 note is worth 1 beat (think house bass drum; boom, boom, boom, boom=1 2 3 4)
In 4/8: the 1/4 note bass drum is worth 2 beats. boom-space-boom-space=1 2 3 4. (1/4 note equals crotchet for my UK compatriots).
Where you put the accent is subjective and entirely up to the composer. Example: 1 2 1 2 1 2 1=one bar of 7/4.
1 2 3 1 2 1 2=one bar, 1 2 3 1 2 3 1=one bar etc etc(I think you get the idea).
I've done a bit of experimenting in the past with 7/4 jungle and it seems to work ok. Messes the heads up of the punters though! I think people are so used to having the beat handed to them on a silver platter (ie house/garage, 2 step D'nB) that they don't know how to move their butts to the different groove.
Try dropping in the odd bar of 7 or 5 in the middle of the track to really f**k them up!!
Message 5/19 28-Nov-99 @ 03:27 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Cheers Sox, think I understand now. I dont need 2 worry about fucking peoples heads up cos I`m a long way from ever getting something out so I can experiment all I like. How about setting the BPM for the track though? I guess just play around with it till it sounds right........
Message 6/19 29-Nov-99 @ 10:17 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
yo, sox...you ever do anyhting with 7/4 9/8 time signature...ya know 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.1234567891.2.3.4.5.6.7.123456789 where a dot or a number represents an eigth, and the number is the count of the beat....switching back and forth and back and forth is what gets people to feel the beat...to bad melodie gets all fucked...i am just a drummer.....oh well...
Message 7/19 30-Nov-99 @ 12:06 AM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
I've tried pretty extensively to get my beats into odd time signatures only to get pretty frustrated. I just keep going back to the standards because it seems easier to dance to and flows. I've also tried to incorporate alot of melodic passages into dance music but then it just loses it's rhythmic focus. It was real hard for me to be able to write dance music at first because I came from doing theatrical scores and I had to drop the melody. I rarely even do triads now.
Message 8/19 30-Nov-99 @ 03:14 AM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Mr.Soma.
Be glad you are a drummer. Percussion is the most important part of Dance music...
My collaborator is a Hand-drummer...Djembe, Tablas, Bongos, anything...
He's always pushing MY envelope....
He's like "make the cowbell go ratah tat tatah tatah tat"
and I'm like "1.0, 1.24, 1.72, 2.48," etc....
A good drummer thinks with his soul while guys like me (crappy garage bass guitarist) think music in numbers and gate times, velocities, decay time. I find House music to be very difficult, while Techno comes easy...so....if that tells you anything....
(We just made a cheesy ass latin house track today... I spent twenty minutes finding the right Conga noise because he didn't like any of them... I'm like "this is a real one, this is a real one"
He's like "I like THAT one"
I'm like "THAT one is synthesized!!!"
oh well....ratatat tat puh diddly boppity rata tat tat.
Be glad you are a drummer. Percussion is the most important part of Dance music...
My collaborator is a Hand-drummer...Djembe, Tablas, Bongos, anything...
He's always pushing MY envelope....
He's like "make the cowbell go ratah tat tatah tatah tat"
and I'm like "1.0, 1.24, 1.72, 2.48," etc....
A good drummer thinks with his soul while guys like me (crappy garage bass guitarist) think music in numbers and gate times, velocities, decay time. I find House music to be very difficult, while Techno comes easy...so....if that tells you anything....
(We just made a cheesy ass latin house track today... I spent twenty minutes finding the right Conga noise because he didn't like any of them... I'm like "this is a real one, this is a real one"
He's like "I like THAT one"
I'm like "THAT one is synthesized!!!"
oh well....ratatat tat puh diddly boppity rata tat tat.
Message 9/19 30-Nov-99 @ 02:09 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Mr Soma:
Nah, I've never tried to go between the signatures like that to create a tune. Sounds like a good thing to practice more than write a tune around. Never know unless ya try though ;)
Nah, I've never tried to go between the signatures like that to create a tune. Sounds like a good thing to practice more than write a tune around. Never know unless ya try though ;)
Message 10/19 30-Nov-99 @ 07:32 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Funny that this thread crept up - I was actually going to ask if anyone made music in odd time signatures. Currently I'm doing a 5/4 dnb track, but it isn't finished. I think most people prefer 4/4 because you seldom hear anything else played, except for that odd 6/8 blues or waltz. This includes us (musicians ...and drummers ;) , at least I have problems writing decent rhythms in odd time. It definitely doesn't flow less than straight 4/4 beats - ever heard folk music played at incredible signatures like 21/16 or 14/8 (or even the lowly 3/4) by good musicians? It can swing like hell, and be easy to dance to as well. I'm fond of 3/4 myself, and melodies in this can have this strange accelerated feeling, since the phrases are shorter and accented differently.
Try to do techno/house in 3/4 with a beat like this kick - kick - kick+clap instead of the usual kick - kick+clap - kick - kick+clap; sounds a bit different...
Try to do techno/house in 3/4 with a beat like this kick - kick - kick+clap instead of the usual kick - kick+clap - kick - kick+clap; sounds a bit different...
Message 11/19 05-Dec-99 @ 05:57 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Hello, here is a way to make a silly 7/8 + 7/8 + 2/8 groove. Together this will form a normaal 4/4 beat.
I don't know how it will sound because I made this with the 16step drum-matrix from scratch. Play it on 85 BPM (or 170 BPM for a junglism-chaos).
Please let me know if you like or hate this 7/8 groove.
I very busy with R.Sized groove-games, and use a lot of the above concepts. Bye!!!
I don't know how it will sound because I made this with the 16step drum-matrix from scratch. Play it on 85 BPM (or 170 BPM for a junglism-chaos).
Please let me know if you like or hate this 7/8 groove.
I very busy with R.Sized groove-games, and use a lot of the above concepts. Bye!!!
Message 12/19 13-Dec-99 @ 12:31 AM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
To hear some cool beats in wierd time signatures:
check Lamb, especially Fear of Fours (Get it! thats funny huh...)
but also check first album too...some of the beats are very jungly and in very wierd time signatures...count it...
FAB
check Lamb, especially Fear of Fours (Get it! thats funny huh...)
but also check first album too...some of the beats are very jungly and in very wierd time signatures...count it...
FAB
Message 13/19 26-Dec-99 @ 11:11 AM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Hey R-Tek...Hope I'm not too late here. In Indian music, the predominent 7 cycle "tala" is broken up like this: 123,12,12. Now when you put an accent (say a kick) on the second "1" and third "1", it very naturally leads back into the first 1 (which is the 1 of the 123). But in Indian music there is no accent (or a soft accent) on the first 1. This tala is called "Rupak Tal". Interesting that the first beat of the cycle has a soft accent. maybe so that it is not so jarring at the beginning of each cycle. Let me know if you want to know a few lead-in tips to keep the cycle interesting. I wonder if it is danceable? Why don't we make it danceable would be a good answer. Also 10/8 is a very engaging cycle. Can be magical. Shouldn't take much math to sync LFOs to 7s and 10s. What possibilities!!! And just want to point out that this is North Indian music.
Message 14/19 26-Dec-99 @ 11:24 AM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
But then a kick or some accent on all all three "1"s in the 7/8 can definately work.
Message 15/19 26-Dec-99 @ 04:20 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Cheers bud, I`ll definately look into that, I had put that project on the back burner (where all my projects seem 2 end up) but I`ll start trying 2 lay that one down tomorrow. At least I was kind of there - 12,12 instead of 1234. I actually grew up listening 2 a lot of music from the Indian subcontinent - every other person in my home town originates from that part of the world and most of the others Irish (like meself) so I guess the answers been under me nose all along. He he, I used 2 watch all those Bollywood films round my mate Gurdeeps house man - fucking mental, those films were crazy.
Message 16/19 26-Dec-99 @ 05:08 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Tell you the truth I can't stomach films and film music from India but I know they are a big thing. Unless they are the films of another level like Salaam Bombay. I would try making a simple loop of 7/8. let it repeat over and over and just see what you feel like playing into it. I'm might give it a try as soon as I'm done with something I'm working on now. I know about back burners all too well. I must have about 150 virtual stoves. A "tehai" is a big subject in Indian rhythm. Basically it is a phrase repeated 3x with an equal number of rests between each. The last note of the 3rd time lands on the downbeat of 1. They can be short and simple or long and elaborate. They can be used like a "fill" is used rhythmically to lead into the beginning of a chorus section or new verse section.
Tehais 1 & 2 in 4/4 time. The notes of the each tehai are 16th notes. These are very simple ones used as fills or to end rhythm solos. Notice that they both end on 1 and have equal spacing separating the 3 parts.
They can start from any beat. I like the second type because the second of the 3 feels syncopated. This is sometimes called turnturtle. Don't ask me why. I guess because the 2nd one is flipped over rhythmically. Of course they can be put together as 128th note rolls or dotted 8ths or one could take out the middle note of each of the 3 in tehai 1 to make it feel different. Just as long as they are all identical. That's the basic idea anyway.
Tehais 1 & 2 in 4/4 time. The notes of the each tehai are 16th notes. These are very simple ones used as fills or to end rhythm solos. Notice that they both end on 1 and have equal spacing separating the 3 parts.
They can start from any beat. I like the second type because the second of the 3 feels syncopated. This is sometimes called turnturtle. Don't ask me why. I guess because the 2nd one is flipped over rhythmically. Of course they can be put together as 128th note rolls or dotted 8ths or one could take out the middle note of each of the 3 in tehai 1 to make it feel different. Just as long as they are all identical. That's the basic idea anyway.
Message 17/19 02-Jan-00 @ 05:54 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Instead of using an odd-meter like 5/8, 7/8 0r 9/8 from the start,it's much easier to start with a nice driving 4/4 meter (1 or 2 measures).
By taking of some eight notes you create an odd-meter drum-loop. for example:
4/4 minus 1 eight note gives 7/8
2 bars 4/4 minus 6 eight notes gives 10/8
It's possible to cut,copy and paste whatever you like and stick it to getter to get a strange new beat.
Happy 2000/1 (odd or even!)
By taking of some eight notes you create an odd-meter drum-loop. for example:
4/4 minus 1 eight note gives 7/8
2 bars 4/4 minus 6 eight notes gives 10/8
It's possible to cut,copy and paste whatever you like and stick it to getter to get a strange new beat.
Happy 2000/1 (odd or even!)
Message 18/19 02-Jan-00 @ 06:29 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
Yea. You can come up with pretty neat stuff like that. I did a 7 over 4 at 100bpm with an ambient kit that has some spacey sparkly watery sounds for drums. Really dreamy sounding. I played that in on the keyboard. I've had years of training in those kinds of rhythmic things but it can also be done mathematically in midi, and then if you listen to it back enough times you can easily feel it I'm sure, and then play it in yourself with your own feeling. Take the number 28-divisible by 4 & 7. You'll get 7 rounds of 4 and 4 rounds of 7 every time it cycles. If you decide a quarternote is 105ms, take 420ms as a cycle. So your 4/4 will be 4 105ms quarternotes and 7 60ms notes. Just another idea.
Message 19/19 02-Jan-00 @ 06:59 PM - RE: 7/8 sequencing?
"time creates feel"
the foundation of all riddim it time...and the time between events of both different and like nature....just food for thought...
the foundation of all riddim it time...and the time between events of both different and like nature....just food for thought...
Viewing all 19 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2
There are 19 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
