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Subject: 3/4 house

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Original Message 1/39 02-Jan-00 @ 06:54 PM - 3/4 house

eliipsis

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yyaha.mid

hey all, this is me, and my basic 3/4 house riddim... please tell me what you think, morph, change, embelish it, and use it...i am trying to get past the 4/4 of house...anyway...yea, this is for us 3/4 lovewrs out there...lets get a rythm goin...

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Message 2/39 14-Jan-00 @ 10:53 PM - RE: 3/4 house

ameoba

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you mind dropping that to one of the groove templates? I may be one of the few guys here who's got a midi-phobia.

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Message 3/39 15-Jan-00 @ 01:38 AM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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hmmm....i'll try, but the efect is nowhere near the same...use 30 percent quantize....tell me what you think....the three barrs loop...expand/embellish as you like..

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Message 4/39 15-Jan-00 @ 11:50 PM - RE: 3/4 house

goingtocali

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Yo !! I am just a beginner! That was a good beat you dropped. Where can I pick up some hard core techno/house drum midiz? I am using midi orchestrator plus and a yamaha DJX

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Message 5/39 16-Jan-00 @ 06:20 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Kierkegaard

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No way was that 3/4 - that beat is 6/8, not 3/4.

They both have 6 eighth-notes in a bar which is why the sequencer allows it, but in 3/4 the accent is on the 1st, 3rd and 5th; 6/8 has the accent on the 1st and 4th.

One bar of your beat (slowed down considerably as you read it)- [(BUM, d-da)(DA, da)]

The bits in brackets are the two 'beats' the CAPS are the accented hits. See how it falls into two? If it was 3/4 it would fall into three.

It's good to see someone breaking away from 4/4 tho. Try 5/8 - it's great fun ;-)

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Message 6/39 16-Jan-00 @ 09:20 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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i disagree...in 3/4 the downbeat falls on one, and the upbeats fall on two and three...i geuss i did synchopate it too heavilly..."base" three four is boom chick chick...then i went too (boom) chick(chick) (chick)...then boom chickchick boom chick...the reason why i think it isnt in 6-8 cause in =6/8 you count one- two, two-two, three-two, (three bars of 6/8) where the upbeat is on the second beat of the measure...wheras in 3/4 it is count one -two-three, two-two-three, three-two-three (three bars of 3/4) and the upbeat is on the second and third...if you listen to the the beat, you can almost hear the um pah pah um pah pah...only the drumz is synchopated...as for 5/8...that shit is fukt...i can, however, improvise in 7/4 and 9/4...7/4 is basically two 4/4 bars - the last beat..and 9/4 is 2 4/4 bars + 1 beat...really cool sruff...but often 9/4 ends up being one bar of four four and one bar of 5/4...*sigh*...5/4 is cool...

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Message 7/39 17-Jan-00 @ 01:47 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Kierkegaard

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I know a 6/8 rhythm when I hear one.

In 6/8 you count ONE,two,three,TWO,two,three for 1 bar. Two distinct beats each split into threes, which is exactly what your rhythm does, syncopation or not. I even opened the MIDI in a score editor. Each bar lasts 1 second, when you play the MIDI and watch the real time display ticking, can you honestly make out three distinct beats per second? I hear two split into three, hence 6/8. This makes the tempo 120bpm too. 180 is not consistent with what you hear as the basis of the beat is not the quarter note, but the dotted quarter.

I don't mean to be argumentative, it's just a fact that the beat is 6/8. Any 'classicaly trained' musician would recognise it as such.

Leftfield have a track on their latest opus entitled 6/8 War. Give it a listen.

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Message 8/39 17-Jan-00 @ 11:08 PM - RE: 3/4 house

bvogel

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Well what I see is a lack of information, you divided each bar by 4 and there are 4 bars, if this is the case then this would be 4/4 and each bar has 4 quarter note beats. In your chart you need to give the duraton of the beats. anything less is an assumption on our part. As for 6/8 this is a common mistake there are 6 eight notes in each bar and the count is one-and-dah-two-and dah the beat falls on the numbers, 2 beats in a bar. 3/4 has 3 quarter note in each bar and the count is one-two-three, the beat falls on the one. Both of these are waltz. Fell it for yourself.

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Message 9/39 17-Jan-00 @ 11:32 PM - RE: 3/4 house

sage

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hmmm, could the "educated" musicans, or the 'classicaly trained' musician post some midi files of what they are talking about. i would like to try work outside 4/4.. but i dont seem to like anything i play. oh, that midi file is to fast for me, i put it to 135, and i liked it better
peace

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Message 10/39 18-Jan-00 @ 03:28 AM - RE: 3/4 house

Jojo the dog faced boy

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Just like to advertise my ignorance on this subject and my complete and utter admiration for any one who can tell me whats going on....

How in the world can House be any thing BUT 4/4 ? I thought that's what first and fourmost (bad pun excuse me) House was defined by.

What would it sound like ?
where do ya put ya hi hats ?
ahh it's all too zany for me.

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Message 11/39 19-Jan-00 @ 01:35 AM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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yesyesyes....Kierkegaard...you count it ONE TWO, TWO TWO...and so on...(usualy too fast to count all 6 eight notes...)...but i am tellin ya, i feel that groove in 3/4....di dyou try out that second groove i posted...now that is definately 3/4...here is another...more house-type beat....
bvogel@emced.msstate.edu

pompass ass...any dolt could see i was ignoring the fourth beat...

anyway...

these last two grooves are most definately in 3/4...do i need to write a whole midifile to demonstrate...???...do you honestly feel one two one two in that last groove...this one is most definately one two three. two two three....this groove is undoubtedly 3/4 house...bum ba dah bum bah dah...or 1-e-and-uh-2-e-an-duh-3-e-an-duh.(showing 16 note subdivision of three beats)....
this riddim should be quantised heavily...

now do you aggree with me..

btw...i am a classically trained drummer..i know what i am talking about...although...the feel of that top groove is a not definate, and up for discretion...the melodic parts would decide if it is in 3 or 6/8...

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Message 12/39 19-Jan-00 @ 04:14 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Kierkegaard

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WHOA THAR BOY!!!

I was only on about the yyaha.mid thang you posted...

Erk...

That one *is* 6/8 as it stands

The groove-matrices are certainly 3/4, they can't be anything but 3/4 (I know the last beat is omitted).

My ignorance clearly knows no bounds, sorry etc.

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Message 13/39 19-Jan-00 @ 11:01 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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soorry, i was on at like 2 in the mornin both times (dance music addict) i am willing to say that the first is 6/8 since you admitted the matrix's were 3/4...but lets get some music made in 3/4...c'mon you obviously have the know-how...

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Message 14/39 20-Jan-00 @ 02:25 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Kierkegaard

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I don't like 3/4 for beats...5/4 is miles better, more relaxed. 3/4 has an uncomfortable urgency about it in this style, its like a new bar starts before the old one's had time to finish. It just never settles down, IMO.

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Message 15/39 20-Jan-00 @ 02:29 PM - RE: 3/4 house

R-Tek

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I think it depends on the tempo; a real slow 3/4 sounds real chilled 2 my ears.

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Message 16/39 20-Jan-00 @ 05:21 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Kierkegaard

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Now this is getting crazy...real slow 3/4 house?

(%�}

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Message 17/39 20-Jan-00 @ 06:18 PM - RE: 3/4 house

R-Tek

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Not house. I can`t even stand 4/4 house. I mean like that (dancehall???) tune that got caned on the radio 4 a while, u know the Jamaican thing. Very cool, can`t remember how it went though.

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Message 18/39 21-Jan-00 @ 06:06 PM - RE: 3/4 house

damballah

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I saw a movie recently where a bunch of people were dancing to some music that I think was in 3/4 time. They wore big poofy outfits. I think they called the music a WALTZ, sort of 17th-century house music. Is that what you guys are thinking of writing, techo-WALTZES?

;)

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Message 19/39 21-Jan-00 @ 06:49 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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no, a waltz has both rythmic and melodic implications...as well as feel implications...just as house is not disco....polka is often in 3/4, but polka and waltz's do not sound the same...just as 50's big band in 4/4 does not sound like NiN in 4/4...

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Message 20/39 21-Jan-00 @ 07:03 PM - RE: 3/4 house

damballah

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Yeah, I know. Sorry, I was being a smart-ass.

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Message 21/39 22-Jan-00 @ 03:58 PM - RE: 3/4 house

paradiddle16

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I think it's all relative how you ear things and how they are written. For instance, Just in 3/4, you can easily imply many different rythms. For instance, try this is in 3/4

x xx xx xx x Clap your hands
1...2...3...

If you listen to the hands, it sounds like a shuffle.
Try doing this drum beat on top of that:
1..2..3..4..
x xx xx xx x Hi-hat
x x snare
x x x x x bass-drum

(i wrote in 4/4 triplets instead of 12/8).

It's sort of a rythmic illusion.

Here's a gogo-groove (Ricky Wellman inspired)
You must swing the notes from 16th notes to 16th notes triplets (or in between). Play with a funky feeling and slam hard.

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Message 22/39 27-Jan-00 @ 05:00 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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that confused the hell outta me...can you write a small midi of it, and post it so i can see it on the piano roll (i am very visual, even tho i'm a drummer...wierd)

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Message 23/39 28-Jan-00 @ 03:45 AM - RE: 3/4 house

ModAsBlue

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3/4 House eh???

Well, I must admit that I've experimented....

But I've never heard any 3/4 house viable for actual play on a dancefloor....and house is the genre of electronic music most closely tied to the dancefloor. (And of course I don't mean that there is no intelligent house nor do I mean that no one listens to house music at home...that's absurd...what I mean is that you rarely hear an Orb or a Squarepusher track at a party save special remixes.) I go to a lot of parties and I've never heard a track played in an actual party environment....and this is with good reason....you can get a "groove" with 3/4, of course, but most people aren't comfortable with it. Hardfloor has some really good 3/4 acid on this album I have, but it's definitely not party-worthy.

Also, House IS Disco. It is totally just disco's reincarnation. I don't care what formal argument someone can wage against me, it's all just disco!!! Ok, some timbres are different, acid doesn't really remind one of disco and tek-house has a different aesthetic....

But house is disco and in the era of the Sex Pistols (Limp Bizkit/Korn) I'm definitely wearing a leisure suit (rave pants) and listening to the Bee Gees (Gene Farris) ....

But then....hmmm....hard techno and jungle are way more punk rock than those stupid rock bands out there.... hmmm....where are my loyalties....
time to go to bed..

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Message 24/39 29-Jan-00 @ 12:38 AM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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i thot the high hats were different between the two...and there are melodic implications as well that differ the two...but you must remember house is just disco evolved, but it is it's own thing...

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Message 25/39 29-Jan-00 @ 05:05 AM - RE: 3/4 house

R-Tek

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One thing woth bearing in mind with huose music though is that its made 4 DJs. Now I play jungle (in my studio, I`m a bedroom DJ heh heh) and mixing in a 3/4 rythym aint a problem cos ryhtymically jungle is a lot less rigid so as long as I keep the first beat of the bar on top of the first beat on the tune I`m mixing into then it sounds cool. But because of Houses general 4 to the floor beat, mixing a 3/4 tune in could b very problematic - the first and last beat of the 3/4 would b phrased correctly, but the middle beat I should imagine will cause problems and prolly kill the mix stone dead. So the DJ would have 2 chop and segue the tune 2 avoid looking like a prick.

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Message 26/39 30-Jan-00 @ 02:18 AM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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you mean dj's actually having to do some work??? no way (heehehee, j/k)

playability is a concern...thanks for pointing that out...could you maybe post a 3/4 jungle riddim for all of us jungle-unaware folks to listen to?

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Message 27/39 30-Jan-00 @ 07:49 AM - RE: 3/4 house

R-Tek

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I think K actually covered the jungle 3/4 in another thread - either "D+B forum" or "creating beats", I`m not too couped up as 2 the more interesting time signatures, I had a stab at 7/8 but goddit horribly wrong so I`m just concentrating on boring old 4/4 as my groundwork. Definately check Ks 3/4 piece though cos it was excellent and informative.

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Message 28/39 30-Jan-00 @ 07:55 AM - RE: 3/4 house

R-Tek

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Apologies, its actually in the "Jungle Beats" thread on this board - geddit 2 show topics in the last 90 days and you`ll find it - enlightening stuff, 2 me at least.

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Message 29/39 30-Jan-00 @ 11:05 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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thx

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Message 30/39 31-Jan-00 @ 04:19 PM - RE: 3/4 house

the butt fucker

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who gives a fuck 6/8, 3/4....
as long as the beat has some type of human feel to it-
its all a question of expression!
unless your some kind of robotic dumb mutha fuk.
its only off beat if its a mistake

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Message 31/39 31-Jan-00 @ 06:10 PM - RE: 3/4 house

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how enlightening

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Message 32/39 31-Jan-00 @ 11:29 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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i play a lot of my own drums, thank you

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Message 33/39 01-Feb-00 @ 02:53 PM - RE: 3/4 house

R-Tek

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Where can I buy a buttfuck drum? Damn, maybe thats what my music has been missing all this time.

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Message 34/39 01-Feb-00 @ 03:34 PM - RE: 3/4 house

damballah

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Try Sam Ass.

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Message 35/39 01-Feb-00 @ 03:42 PM - RE: 3/4 house

R-Tek

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LOL.

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Message 36/39 01-Feb-00 @ 10:30 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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hahahahahaha

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Message 37/39 03-Feb-00 @ 02:52 PM - RE: 3/4 house

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3/4 house?.. do you mean like house with a triplet feel/swing (with a 4/4 kik standard style)

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Message 38/39 05-Feb-00 @ 08:44 PM - RE: 3/4 house

SLAVIDICUS

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if one or more instruments in the beat are in 3/4 or 6/8 you get some o dat shuffle

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Message 39/39 10-Feb-00 @ 11:07 PM - RE: 3/4 house

Ellipsis

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k, i was talking about 3/4 kik with swing feel

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