ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??! - Drums / rhythms / programming forums

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Subject: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

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Original Message 1/21 08-Oct-00 @ 04:34 PM - ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

RUMLADMAFF

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HELLO TECH-HEADS! I'VE JUST TODAY DISCOVERED THIS TIDY SITE AND WAS WONDERING IF ANY OF YOU CAN HELP ME OUT?? I'M SEARCHING (IN VAIN) FOR THE PERFECT KICK DRUM!! I HAVE A FAIRLY LARGE AMOUNT OF GEAR (INCLUDING A NOVATION DRUMSTATION AND SHITLOADS OF KICKS ON SAMPLE CD'S) BUT GENERALLY ALL MY KICK DRUMS SOUND LIKE A BAG OF SHITE.........I HAVE TRIED LOADS OF TECHNIQUES LIKE RADICAL EQ'ING, LEAVING EQ FLAT, COMPRESSION, ETC, BUT TO NO AVAIL. I SEEM TO HAVE A HARD TIME WHEN IT COMES TO EQ AND MAKING GOOD SOUNDING FINAL MIXES - PERHAPS MY EARS ARE JUST SHAGGED??!? I MONITOR THROUGH A SERVO AMP AND KRK K-ROKS, AND THE KICK ALWAYS SOUNDS SHIT! I REALISE THAT WHEN YOU LISTEN TO STUFF RECORDED OFF THE RADIO THAT'S IT'S HEAVILY COMPRESSED, ETC, AND SO IS THEREFORE BOUND TO SOUND PHATTER, BUT THEN YOU LISTEN TO SOME CD OF TRACKS THAT AREN'T OFF VINYL/RADIO, ETC, AND THEY HAVE THE MOST PERFECT, THUMPING, PUNCHY, DUBBY KICK THAT MAKES ME SICK WITH ENVY!!! AAARRRGGHHH! (THE TYPE OF DRUM YOU COULD LISTEN TO ON IT'S OWN FOREVER) PLEASE, PLEASE HELP ME.......SHOULD I SAMPLE OFF VINYL, GET A PHD IN SOUND ENGINEERING, START STALKING TIMO MAAS OR FUCK IT ALL AND JUST BUY A 909?!?!?!?? ANY HELP AT ALL WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED, THANKS LOADS, MAFF!

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Message 2/21 08-Oct-00 @ 05:42 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

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What kind of music are you doing?Sampling a kickdrum that you like is not likely to get you a lawsuit.And turn off your caps lock key please:0

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Message 3/21 09-Oct-00 @ 12:25 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

Jasper

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I've got the worlds best kick drum.. no shit.. last week we were all up in the city and for some reason everyone forgot their credit cards and cash... well not everyone, good old worlds best kick drum, came up trumps with a mastercard.. and later on we couldn't get into gods kitchen hard house night.. until one of the bouncers spotted worlds best kick drum and let us all in for free!!!

three cheers for worlds best kick drum... hip hip hoo *sound of bloke getting shot*

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Message 4/21 09-Oct-00 @ 03:31 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

RUMLADMAFF

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ERRR.....NO, I DON'T BELIEVE SAMPLING A KICK THAT I LIKE WILL RESULT IN AN IMPENDING LAWSUIT......BUT THEN, THAT WASN'T EXACTLY WHAT I ASKED WAS IT?? AND NO, I LIKE CAPS LOCK.

AND JASPER, IF THERE'S ANY CHANCE YOU COULD ASK THAT KICK DRUM TO POP (THUMP) ROUND TO MY HOUSE FOR 5 MINUTES, THAT'D BE HANDY!! (FAILING THAT AN AUTOGRAPH WILL DO)

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Message 5/21 09-Oct-00 @ 04:29 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

Jasper

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no problem.

on that kick tip though, I've got about 8 kicks that sound really good in tracks but they don't sound great in isolation. my trick is to have some really low volume background noise under the kick if I'm playing it solo. sort of lifts the kick away from it's place on the sonic canvas (if you will).

have you tried a bit of overdrive mixed back in? also something like an aphex 104 or the vitalizer will really beef up a kick in all the right places.

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Message 6/21 09-Oct-00 @ 05:59 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

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TAKE THE FUCKING CAPS LOCK OFF THO COS I CANT READ IT SO FUCKING EASY!!!

my first thought was: "how can piss little speakers like K-roks get a decent kik or bass sound?".. but mebbe they can - you dont give any info at all.. what s/w plays the kiks, or are the kiks from a sampler, sample CD, drum box, drum s/w etc etc etc ???... NO details are added.

Also, is you monitor system/speakers wired in phase ?.. cos 'out-of-phase' wiring kills kik drums' 'punch' & 'impact'.

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Message 7/21 09-Oct-00 @ 07:39 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

0/d

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how should speakers be wired to get them in phase?

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Message 8/21 09-Oct-00 @ 08:06 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

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correctly!

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Message 9/21 10-Oct-00 @ 12:57 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

Jasper

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aah, this is a dancetech favorite.

you see your speakers?, you see the positive connector (may be red) and the negative connector (may be black).

you see your amp? basically make sure the positive on the amp goes to the positive on the speaker and likewise for the negative.

if you've wired your speakers wrong and you crank them up you may damage your speakers. plus as k says it sounds shit.

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Message 10/21 10-Oct-00 @ 02:31 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

RUMLADMAFF

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hey! some suggestions, nice one! first off, sorry for the lack of info (and bitching about caps lock!).....pretty much all of my beats come out of my akai s30000 which is hooked into a studiomaster p7 which is in turn fed into a servo 170 amp. i use sample cd's as the source for my drum sounds....i dunno, perhaps my monitors are out of phase, i'll check them in a bit. i do tend to have a hard time when it comes to recording stuff though - i can get something sounding pretty good on this system, but when i record it and stick it through my hi-fi, car, etc it sounds terrible!! i understand that things are supposed to sound 'flat' on these monitors, but i find it amazingly off-putting when i listen to what i've just spent ages on and it's sounds like a bag of shit......i am starting to use audio in cubase vst more and more (mainly due to the lethal addictivity of plug ins), but am then sat here thinking 'well if that's not eq'd right, it's ponitless recording it.'

maybe i need to use a different amp and monitors, i used to use some big dodgy memorex speakers and a hi-fi amp, and the stuff i DAT'ed then sounds superior to what i'm achieveing now! i've even tried lugging my hi-fi in here for a more inspiring sound and even when it sounds ace through it, it will still sound bad in my car.....whereas EVERY FRIGGING CD I LISTEN TO sounds good on ANYTHING!!!!! NNNNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

i've just realised i should be in the mixing forum!!!! haha!!!! that kick is just part of the problem......

right, i'll get off now as you're all probably comatosed.......so, any more suggestions are appreciated! i just want my monitoring set-up to represent what i am actually recording!!!! any tips on eq'ing different sounds would be cool aswell......

P.S. do you reckon some posh headphones might help? i've got a cheap shit pair, but surprise surprise, they sound different again to everything else!! ahhhh....you really do have to laugh!!!

cheers lads (and lasses), hope to hear from you soon! yours, maff.

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Message 11/21 10-Oct-00 @ 02:44 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

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ah well.... it just goes to show what utter bollox is written in speaker advertising copy.... you used to 'know' your old memorex speakers & how to mix on them, but you obviously dont yet 'know' the k-roks i guess.... oh and dont eq stuff BEFORE recording it, eq AFTER it is recorded, that way you always have the full eq spectrum available to try a new eq setting, but if you record the kik with say a big 80hz cut, then you cant add 80hz boost if you try to re-eq it after recording..

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Message 12/21 10-Oct-00 @ 08:48 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

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k,damballah you think I should go with ns10s i saw a picture of playfords rig and he had em with some full size monitors to boot is this how i should set up my studio if I'm gettin serious?

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Message 13/21 10-Oct-00 @ 09:03 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

0/d

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Ns10's=no bass(real bass),they are brilliant for rock n roll and all that but when it comes to drum n bass you should look elsewhere.

so there is no magical way of cutting the cable out of its housing or doubling it up in the insert,why don't my speakers work at all if i wire them out of phase,is there some sort of phase resistance in my preamp?(just wondering)

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Message 14/21 10-Oct-00 @ 09:43 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

damballah

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Talking about NS-10s is a good way of getting people fighting. I hear a great deal about ear fatigue from people who use them lots. Some people swear by them. Some use them in conjunction with large monitors (like that playford photo you saw). Some hate the shit out of them.

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Message 15/21 10-Oct-00 @ 10:18 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

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I sat and chatted with playford for about 30 mins. at Zen97 I was the only person who recognized him.He seems like a real cool guy.He gave me his email but I lost it oh well.Good conversation though.After he spun his set people started talking to him then.Everybody was pissed Goldie didn't show but later on i read they had trouble that week.The first thing i said to him was I didn't really care if goldie showed because i knew who the brains were anyway.I guess that disarmed him he didn't walk away we just finished our conversation and parted ways after he spun I told him wicked set and went about tripping to the dots

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Message 16/21 11-Oct-00 @ 06:17 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

0/d

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yeah he seems like an intelligent chap,didn't he start moving shadow with a 48 page "how to start your own record label" book?

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Message 17/21 11-Oct-00 @ 06:58 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

ggehiere

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Hey y'all.

I write progressive trance, which I know alot of people
don't like and will immediately discount what I say.

Regardless, I've been listening to and disecting sounds
and I've found a way to make some kick ass uh, kicks
for hard italian-style trance or techno.

The base is a 909 kick, of course. You need to
over-drive it hard, so it's a little distorted. Keep it
down to a short decay. Now add some reverse reverb and
pre-delay (reverse sample, add effect, record effected
sample and reverse again.) When you're done you should
have the reverb then a short pause then the kick. The
reverb should fall exactly between the bass kicks,
almost like a pedal bass effect. Split up or edit the
sample to make sure this is the case.

Lastly, add a sharp closed hi-hat with a really short
decay onto the kick. It's been used alot, but subtle
mixing and EQ'ing can creat lots of interesting
combinations.

Experimenting with different reverse reverbs can create
some awesome punchy kicks that really get people off
their asses and onto the dance fl

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Message 18/21 12-Oct-00 @ 12:06 AM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

RUMLADMAFF

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thanks for the advice everyone, it's all part of the learning curve i suppose! actually, since i've been messing around recently, i powered up the novation drumstation again, wrote a quick drumtrack and recorded it all (flat) into vst audio.....i then added a small and extremely subtle dark reverb, and added shitloads of compression (slow attack, medium release) with the kwik-comp plug-in i downloaded off this very website............i then re-recorded another two takes of the wav, but with varying eq's - roll the bass off slightly, etc - i finally burnt them quickly onto a cd, whacked it in the car stereo and BANG!!! i have found a nigh-on perfect kick!! (bearing in mind the oversized subs in my car) it sounds tight and punchy, more like the solid pure 909 kick that you hear on all those old f*cked up detroit techno tracks...the ones where you just knew the bloke was sat there with nowt but a 909, 303 and a juno 6!!! it also has a similar sound to the cleaner, more melodic stuff on some of sasha's compilations......ace!! i do think that i am now starting to realise how important compression, etc, is. right, i'm off... (looking forward to that reverse reverb trick gg, and thanks h, k and jasper for the suggestions) all the best, maff.

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Message 19/21 12-Oct-00 @ 08:56 AM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

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I'm not sure about his book I thought that was the KLF?Ilike Rob very much and ou always know you'll get quality out of moving shadow.Although some dj/producers are assholes.I showed up at Dom&Roland's gig with my camera after talking to a local promoter and when I got there he said it's in their contract not to be videoed.I just wanted to ask him some intelligent questions about production techniques instesd of the usual wher ya from what kind of sneakers you wear dribble.I'm sure Rob would have had no problemw/ free publicity.The original intention of illjamz.com(my url) was to provide useful info for people like us who have almost got our foot in the door all the way down to those of us who ask questions like what is the best mixer for trance.Rockstar attitudes suck.I promise that as long as i live when i blow up you will still be able to walk up to me and have a conversation w/ me about my music without trying to act like I'm the star and you should just run along.My inspiration has come from the people in the club scene so why should i, just because i have been given a gift to make people dance turn my back on the very people who make it possible for me to express myself w/ technology?

Hank D(electro/acid) alter ego Dubtronik(drumnbass/dubby2step)

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Message 20/21 12-Oct-00 @ 12:26 PM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

RUMLADMAFF

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HALLELUJAH!

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Message 21/21 15-Oct-00 @ 06:02 AM - RE: ANYONE OUT THERE GOT THE PERFECT KICK DRUM??!

Pongoid

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Xbase has a pretty good kick, and if you dial it right, it fits just about anywhere.

Ape

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