Forums - Drums / rhythms / programming
Subject: that Maasive timo groove
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Original Message 1/18 08-Jan-01 @ 12:02 AM - that Maasive timo groove
Message 2/18 08-Jan-01 @ 08:12 AM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
Seriously... there is no magic trick that all the pros use to get that pro sound. It's about having years of experience, loads of talent and hopefully a studio that doesn't limit you. Especially with things like "groove" or "funk" or "swing" that can't really be measured.
Instead of looking for the magic trick you should look how the different sounds, rhythms and melodies interact. The groove is often about the way all the drums and the bass work together. A little bit of swing quantization will help but personally I prefer to just place the notes where I want them to be, instead of letting the computer move them about to create an artificial groove. Having a few channels worth of decent eq and compression will also help a lot, so that you have loads of control over the dynamics of the groove. 4 channels of compression should be enough, one for the kick, one for the snare, one for the hats and one for the bass. The real trick to compression (imho at least) is to eq the sounds correctly before and after the compression.
Hmm, that doesn't help much I suppose. I'm way too tired to do this.
Message 3/18 11-Jan-01 @ 10:48 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
Message 4/18 18-Jan-01 @ 12:58 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
I havn't really spent much time, but if you sample a few bars worth and then bring the wave into logic, you can create a groove template. This is a midy file that you can drop onto any track, it will include velo data as well as all that slight positional data that is apparently so essential (fuck if I get even an ounce of what really makes groove groove) to grooven. If you've the chance, please let us know what happens.
Message 5/18 19-Jan-01 @ 10:13 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
Message 6/18 20-Jan-01 @ 08:09 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
Message 7/18 28-Jan-01 @ 10:28 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
It kind of annoys me how compression adds that little sparkle of professionalism to your tune because it takes you ages to figure it out...itmakes it suitable for an overall sound system...
Message 8/18 30-Jan-01 @ 11:39 AM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
if you have kick, snare, hats, claps, etc. what sounds receive the swing treatment. this is an essential question i've wondered for ages.
help resolve
cheers
Message 9/18 31-Jan-01 @ 06:51 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
Message 10/18 31-Jan-01 @ 10:37 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
Message 11/18 31-Jan-01 @ 11:06 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
http://www.icrunch.com/stream.m3u?i=timomaas_der_schieber_radio_edit
http://www.icrunch.com/stream.m3u?i=timomaas_funkin_for_hope_in_ny_mix
like that?... it's deep, it's got latin crossovers, and much little touches and subtleties... the best advice is to checkout as much world beats as possible, nothing obscure, just regular world beats, especialy samba cos it's a mix of latin & african all in one, alot of the 'marching' feels are in it....
also checkout how the bass underpins the kik with some offbeat notes to make the pumping part but it compliments of course the rise in the hats & clack & other percussion sounds ('Der Schieber' (Rapid Eye Remix)) - and always there is this layered -da-d-da - da-d-ad triplet in the drums and synth riff's - a skip -
on 'Der Schieber' (Radio Edit), you got an absolute square up-hat & kik, boom-tish... over that is the offbeat with a shaker... d-d-da - d-d-da - d-d-da..... the synth riff follws this.. the velocity gives it the lilt on the offbeat with the hat is like a little rounded congo sound like a ringing wood-bucket doing the offbeat with the open hat... boom-da - boom-da - boom- didle-oom-da - :-) - etc...
there's about 6 layers of hats shakers & riddim over the hat-slice & kik (boom-tish) before the drums hit - at the breakdown/end, that sound like a pattern being triggered from a loop-start shows the offbeat phrase pattern revealed which is the last layer pushing the feel besides the synths - innit? - all i can say is if youi just study some basic african & s'american drum & music styles & carribean... there's all your patterns & feels then when you think in those patterns, you can hear them over anything, and flow with your beasts. - it's all about what you listen too... listen to the source materials and not try to hear this stuff happening hidden inside a dance track where it sounds mysterious...
Message 13/18 13-Feb-01 @ 10:22 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
He was unwilling to go into alot of detail, but what he did say was he uses Logic Audio Platinum, only analogue gear, tons of compression and one of the best producers/engineers in Germany.
I also agree with other respondents to this question. It takes years of practice and experience. If you listen to Peace Divisions first track on Low Pressings, nearly three and a half years old, it is extremely basic (only 11 drum parts). Look where they are now!
Message 14/18 13-Feb-01 @ 10:27 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
Message 15/18 13-Feb-01 @ 11:14 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
I made a point of listening to the regular african drummers in Leicester Square today on my lunchbreak and it was so interesting how they built layer upon layer and crossed over poly-rhythms..though it was freestyle so I don't think they had a structure figured out...
anyway, I wish I had my mini disc on me to be honest to sample them....I was hypnotised...nothing better than the real thing.
it was funny cos I was chatting to Terry Francis at Fabric on Saturday night and he told me he always uses a multi-band compressor on his stuff and gates his snares..he said it was best to compress drums individually...it also says how to use compression in the mix in the new Computer Music mag which is worth checking out (for once!)...he'd never even heard of an Alesis 3630 so I was a bit gutted..
he said that at the end of the day his engineer does that sort of stuff for him but over the years he's picked it up...he says he'd never have figured it out himself..
I don't think we would have without a site like this to be honest!
he did say also that it is a complex combination of adjusting the correct velocities and LFO attacks and releases etc...along with the compression...if you just have a dry and linear drum pattern going (i.e Rebirth synced with Cubase) with a compressor over the whole mix you won't get such a pumping effect...
therefore it takes a lot of intricate programming and careful listening to get things pumping in that certain way...
I think your looking for more of a deep house groove than a hard techno one though Timo Maas sort of blends a lot of styles which is the current trend with progressive house being big and all that...I think theres a lot of difference between each genre of house and techno when it comes to compression..
buy something on Drop records and something by the Liberator DJ's..and a speed garage tune and the use of compression for each style is very different...
at the end of the day there is no 'rule'...like Terry said:
'as long as it sounds alright do it'...
Message 16/18 15-Feb-01 @ 02:25 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
of course it don't really start to groove until the sounds are working well together and the whole thing is compressed a bit.
Message 17/18 16-Feb-01 @ 03:38 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
Anyway there are hardly any DJs (apart from BUSHWACKA!) who produce their own tracks.
And another thing all this prog/tribal house is boring, its just drums, there's never any music in it.
Prime boring candidates are Steve Lawler (Yawn), Lee Burridge, Craig Richards and most of the old men Fabric DJ's.
To me the most exciting, cutting edge DJ's are Danny Howles, Sister Bliss, Timo Mass and Alison Marks. They actually blow the roof off and play records that have cutting edge music in them and make the girls dance. I won't see you at Home!
Message 18/18 16-Feb-01 @ 06:28 PM - RE: that Maasive timo groove
'the old men fabric dj's'...haha..I spose they are really..
I think Craig Richards is a great DJ and largely plays some really experimental deep house and techno tunes that no-one will play...no cheese..he plays stuff really slow which is perfect at 3am when you're spaced out and comin down...I would'nt get into his stuff if he played at 11...
yeah deep house and tech/house has a different vibe to prog house...it's mostly more about a steady groove and attitude than building a set to a peak...
anyway mate..stop slaggin and give us some tips! DJ's only play records at the end of the day so who gives a fuck about em?
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