Forums - Drums / rhythms / programming
Subject: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
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Original Message 1/41 27-Feb-01 @ 02:06 PM - BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
NOW LETS GET ONE THING STRAIGHT, I'M NO EXPERT PRODUCER, JUST A POOR MUSIC MAKER WHO WORKS IN HIS BEDROOM 5 DAYS A WEEK AND AS AN ASSISTANT ENGINNEER 2 DAYS A WEEK. BUT LIKE MOST OF YOU GUYS I'M QUIETLY PLUGGING AWAY LEARNING A FEW NEW THINGS EVERY COUPLE OF WEEKS AND HOPING TO MAKE IT ONE DAY. NOW'S THAT'S SORTED OUT, BACK TO MY POINT-BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DOMAIN !
TIMO MAAS, PEACE DIVISION, FUTURE SHOCK, 16B AND MOST OF THE OTHER TEC/TRIBAL/PROG PRODUCERS ALL OPERATE USING THE ANALOGUE FORCE (THE GOOD SIDE).
I,VE BEEN READING ABOUT SOME OF YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT DITCHING MOST OF YOUR OUTBOARD IN FAVOUR OF VST/LOGIC AUDIO AND ALL THOSE WONDERFUL PLUG-INS. DON'T DO IT UNLESS YOU WANT THAT THIN,CLEAN,LITE,UNWARM SOUND. LETS KEEP THINGS TUFF,DIRTY AND ORGANIC-ESPECIALLY DRUMS!
OK, SO SOME OF THE PLUG-IN EQ'S, GATES AND DELAYS ARE USABLE, BUT THE REVERBS,COMPRESSORS,DISTORTION BOXES AND CHORUS UNITS SOUND HORRIBLE. THEY SOUND TOO CLEAN AND LACK DEPTH.
THIS IS A CALL TO ALL BEDROOM PRODUCERS WHO ARE THINKING OF MAKING THE SWITCH, DON'T DO IT! I KNOW ITS TEMPTING, ALL THOSE PLUG-INS, THE AUTOMATION CAPABILITIES AND THE ECONOMIES OF AN ENTIRE STUDIO ON SCREEN.
BUT IF YOU WANT THE SOUND OF ALL THE TOP PRODUCERS THEN YOUR BEST TO STAY WITH AN ANALOGUE DESK, OUTBOARD COMPESSOR,GATES AND LEXICON REVERB UNITS. PLEASE GUYS STAY HERE ON THE GOOD SIDE, USE THE ANALOGUE FORCE AND REMEMBER, THE GRASS IS NOT GREENER OVER THERE!
Message 2/41 27-Feb-01 @ 04:34 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
also, turn off the caps, it's difficult to read and most people won't even bother.
I suppose most people here wouldn't say no to a nice analogue desk, lexicon reverb (I suppose you do mean the top end rack unit) and various 5000 pound compressors to use on the hats.. but mate, you've got to be realistic.
Message 3/41 27-Feb-01 @ 05:52 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 4/41 27-Feb-01 @ 05:54 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
kinda-sorta agree with you, analog does sound
better for most things, but all those "top producers"
also use K2000's, wavestations, DX's, VA's.....it's
all about having a balance. A jup 8 can't do a
k5000 and a k5000 can't do a jup 8. Different
species, different DNA.
Message 5/41 27-Feb-01 @ 06:37 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Analogue Anal
another baiter I guess.
Message 6/41 27-Feb-01 @ 06:44 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 7/41 27-Feb-01 @ 11:12 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 8/41 28-Feb-01 @ 09:45 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
anyway, your chatting shit cos all the best producers these days covert their midi to audio, and use a combination in most cases of outboard compressors and plug-ins..it just depends on the sounds your using..there is no 'standard' these days..and why spend 900 quid on outboard when you can get all the plug-ins you want for free these days (all of us have our dodgy hacker mates and you know that!)...save the cash and go to australia instead for two weeks...
Message 9/41 01-Mar-01 @ 06:50 AM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 10/41 01-Mar-01 @ 02:36 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 11/41 01-Mar-01 @ 09:03 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 12/41 02-Mar-01 @ 12:19 AM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
mentioned are digital: 2 160x mono compressors
(wicked on kicks and basses) and a Lexicon PMC
70. still, the mathmatics in the lexicon units are
great. i've got an mpx 500 and to me it does sound
better than reverb plug ins. i also have a k2000
which is also digital and it makes some
outragously warm bass. and i used to use it for
drums too, but now i've been working more with
reason for drums. i also have a juno 60 which to
me sounds better than the partialy digital 106 that
used to reside in my studio. what does all that
mean? i don't limit myself to analog or digital.
they're both valid means. and there are PLENTY of
top producers that use mainly digital. besides, alot
of "pro" tracks these days are multi-tracked audio
for final mixdown anyway. there are some sounds
that you can only get from analog gear (roland
space echo...mmmmmm)...but i wouldn't say the
whole studio, or even the majority of the studio,
should be analog.
Message 13/41 02-Mar-01 @ 01:01 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 14/41 02-Mar-01 @ 01:55 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
I know what its like, I sat in my bedroom for two years, getting really fustrated about why my tunes never sounded like the people I was listening to. It wasn't until I got a job in a studio making tea and doing shop runs that I really started to learn the tips and tricks and now I reckon I moved up to division 2. Maybe we can exchange some ideas. Oh and JP both dbx compressors (766 & 160x,s)I talked about are analogue, not digital. Take care.
Message 15/41 02-Mar-01 @ 05:24 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 16/41 02-Mar-01 @ 07:46 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
166xl and i like the way it sounds. i guess i
thought it was digital 'cause it doesn't use a tube.
you sure it's not digital?
Message 17/41 03-Mar-01 @ 01:52 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 18/41 03-Mar-01 @ 03:55 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
fuck me, small world..that was a great night. Ended up down there cos Home was a pile of shite.
I was the one behind the DJ booth trying to chat up Sarah Cox but getting shamelessly turned away...haha. Did you see her mate? She was mashed...I think she's going out with the guy from Futureshock...dunno though..ah who cares..
all I can say is that you must all have dollars cause I'm not going back to outboard FX now...I'm gonna get a new pc asap, sort out my latency problems with my soundcard and just covert all my midi to audio and use plugs...but then again my outboard was pretty poor in retrospect..I had a zoom 1201 and 1204 and an alesis 3630...I really liked the zoom's but their outputs were a bit too noisy..so once I had my track as a .wav file to be mastered I always ended up using denoiser and declicker plugs in soundforge to sort out the noise which got a pain after a while...with Timeworks reverb you get no noise and the quality of the reverb itself is top class...not to mention the compressor...so smooth. But then again most people have to pay for a package like that...
I'll be on miami beach in the summer with the money from my outboard gear...not.
Message 19/41 03-Mar-01 @ 04:16 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 20/41 03-Mar-01 @ 04:25 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 21/41 03-Mar-01 @ 07:08 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
I'm doing a bit of recording at Swag studio's in Croydon soon...you may heave heard of Terry Francis, Dave Mothersole and Colin Dale...well they all record there...but I'm still looking to get my stuff released...my plan is to do all my midi and programming at home..then get it all into audio and take it into Swag and use VST 32 in there with an engineer cos I can't mix that well...
Recently I have been caning it a bit to be honest..last weekend I went to five parties in one weekend but only paid to get into one...it's just that I know a lot of people who run the nights from various parties, ex-girlfriends or whatever and the London underground house and techno scene is always kicking and friendly so there's always places to go...I'm not really a reclusive studio type..although you have to change to that mode if you wanna get something done..
And I do try and keep the bean intake down to minimum...but if your at a great party then they need to be botched...simple as that..
gimme you e-mail address mate.
all the best. Jez
Message 22/41 03-Mar-01 @ 07:11 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 23/41 05-Mar-01 @ 07:41 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 24/41 06-Mar-01 @ 12:05 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
I've bought all sorts of syths lately, and sold em on again to return to my trusted sampler.. all my good tracks are purely sample based.. for some reason the synths just don't want to play with me.
apart from my now dead bass station, a simple and dirty sound.
jez - bought 'sounds of the first season - sven vath' yet? - do so.. that's an order.
starts off mellow - and then rapes your eardrums.
Message 25/41 06-Mar-01 @ 03:08 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
I'll give it a listen and I did like that album he did years ago called 'The Hralequin' or something like that...
Message 26/41 06-Mar-01 @ 03:49 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
just my thoughts.. and i guess i will never be a proper PROFESSIONAL producer, but who cares.. i have my sound, and my technique.
regards,
johan
Message 27/41 06-Mar-01 @ 10:02 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Hey Jez! I remember going to that pub in woolwich, funny place, right next to a police station. Ironic considering what goes on inside. I've had some top Wiggle, Whoop Whoop!, Heart and Soul nights in there. Dave Mothersole is one of my favorite DJ's. Proper cutting edge, underground house.
Hey R-tek are you in to Wookie's stuff?
Take care.
Message 28/41 06-Mar-01 @ 11:00 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
so have you got any stuff up to demonstrate your belief that analogue is better than digital then?
Message 29/41 07-Mar-01 @ 02:01 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
PS. Can I listen to your tune with just a pair of minijack headphones out the back of the computer?
Message 30/41 08-Mar-01 @ 01:27 AM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
you've only just started using the internet? Where have you been the past few years? Stuck in that mad club over in Woolwich botching til your hearts content by the sounds of it...
oh listen to my tracks and I'll forgive you...haha
they are streamed in MP3 format...just get Winamp for free and then you can download tracks in mp3 format and listen..if your soundcard out is'nt connected to a set of speakers or an amp or whatever, then just plug your phones into the phone socket and you should get some sound...
all the best.
Jez
Message 31/41 08-Mar-01 @ 01:29 AM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 32/41 08-Mar-01 @ 03:21 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
cheers!
Message 33/41 08-Mar-01 @ 03:21 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 34/41 08-Mar-01 @ 08:38 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
analogue, I'm no net wizzkid either but you either have to have Real Audio installed or wniamp...my tracvks are'nt up for download now so you can only listen...so I think you need winamp..not sure though...k?
as far as your last post, depends on the quality of the plug-ins your using really...
you can't generalise these days..my Timeworks reverb plug-in sounds way better than my zoom or lexicon reverb units did when I owned them though its hard to explain why..they just sound smoother and more controllable..and what plugs are you using BTW?
..if your just using free ones then you've got no right to slam digital FX at all cos I will agree that a lot of the free plug-ins are pretty shite and lifeless, with no character...but the Waves ones, Timeworks, Canam ones I've got kick arse big time. You got or tried them?
I know what youre saying...a lot of outboard can really not just add the effect to a sound, but also add new dynamics and character than an 'equivalent' plug-in can..like a 'wholeness' to the sound or as you say:
'a real sense of space in the mix'
...depends on the unit...but you can't just say they are all wank cos thats just not true...
I'm having a few problems at the moment using pulgs as inserts on over 20 tracks of audio because my system is a bit old...so I'm gonna use a few more midi tracks..but lucky for me, I have an a3000 with 3 fx blocks, a nova with fx and a proteus 2k for effects...so sometimes I use those FX, and sometimes convert to audio and use plugs...it just depends how I feel at the time really...it certainly makes you more flexible and you can't argue with that..I've found that mostly I onlu use plugs on the drums, vocal samples and thats it... keys and other stuff is done on the outboard cos its quicker to set-up..and I don't mess with the bass to much..maybe a tiny bit of reverb, chours and compression...thats it...
Message 35/41 08-Mar-01 @ 08:41 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Jez
Message 36/41 08-Mar-01 @ 09:36 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 37/41 08-Mar-01 @ 09:37 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 38/41 09-Mar-01 @ 01:42 AM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
(p)
right
(p)
cheers
(p)
for
(p)
that
(p)
Message 40/41 09-Mar-01 @ 01:58 AM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
Message 41/41 09-Mar-01 @ 12:00 PM - RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE
like I said.. replace the ( ) with < > ... if I put em in directly it'll jusr paragraph the text rather then display the < >
ok?
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