Forums - Drums / rhythms / programming
Subject: I thought we were talking about drums
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Original Message 1/12 09-Mar-01 @ 07:52 PM - I thought we were talking about drums
1. How do you build a grooving drum track?
2. Is groove based around the relationship betweem the hats and the snare?
3. If you have a 16th note closed hi-hat pattern, how much should you swing the 2nd and 4th hat?
4. If I want to make a really grooving 4x4 house pattern, how do I put that driving feel into it?
5. What's the best way to emulate the live feel using a programmed shaker?
6. Is it best to avoid using 16th note swing quantise setings in Logic?
7. Are there any tricks? Is it good to wobble drum sounds by using modulation? How do you do it?
8. Are there any tips on how to make your drum samples really attack?
I know there are no rules in music, but there must be some tried and tested tips and tricks!
Message 2/12 09-Mar-01 @ 10:17 PM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
2. If you mean only drums... then it would be more like kick drum + snare + hihats. But in 4 to the floor beat it's like you said... snares + hats. Kicks are more quantised in that genre but you can experiment with bassline.
3. Test, test, test, test,test... maybe one 64th note... teeeeeessstt.
4. Use also 32th notes with snares and hats + groove.
5. Buy a shaker(they are cheap) or do it your self... then record you playing it... cut and quantise if you can't play it good.
6. Don't know. I use Cubase.
7. Pitch modulation sounds very bad in drums. But if you do some experimental stuff and modulate pitch/cutoff frequency/whatever you might find some interesting sounds.
8. Compression = COMPRESSION.
Cheers,
Shpongled.
Message 3/12 10-Mar-01 @ 04:36 PM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
You talk about only using 32 note quantise on hats and snares. What the hell are you talking about? Are you saying that if I was to program in an open hat on every 3rd sixteen (ie-standard hi-hat pattern=4 per bar)then I should pull it back 120 ticks (ie 240 ticks =a sixteen note in Logic). I've tried that and the beat just falls over itself. Swinging the hat by one 64th, as you said, sounds very rigid. Should I be making beats 2 and 4(ie snare stage of beat) come in earlier by say 5 ticks, then try and move everything else accordingly. Please can someone take out 10 mins to help? I'm pulling my hair out!
Ps. I know about the importance of compression.
Message 4/12 10-Mar-01 @ 09:12 PM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
Message 5/12 11-Mar-01 @ 12:07 AM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
Message 6/12 11-Mar-01 @ 12:42 AM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
1. to get your perfect grooves
not only try different time offsets with the 2nd 4th
but also (and most importantly!) vary velocity on the
whole pattern - : make every second of your normal closed hats say half the vel and so on - u'll hear how
that sort of thing injects a new groove into the beat.
2. TUNE your drums so that the whole pattern creates a
melody as well as tight beat.
3.LAYER your drums untill u get the desired sound - layer 3 (or more...) snares on top of each other 2 get 1 fat and chunky sounding snare, do the same with hi hats, etc.
4.STUDY and grab the grooves from your favorite tunes - take your time 2 recycle(!) the sampled beat and study
the structure of it in sequencer (after importing the recycle! generated midi file) and take notice exactly where the different drums are playing and even extract the actual groove from the midi file to apply it 2 your
patterns - u culd easily build a massive library of grooves just by doing the above while learning directly
from your fav top pros!
Question: can u visualize the drum loop when u hear it,
how exactly would it look like on your sequencer grid?
(including velocity and timie offsets)
If no then study and try 2 recreate those drums heard on fav records untill u can and then... Mmmm then comes
the time when u can call yourself a drum god
Happy drumming - dada.
Message 7/12 12-Mar-01 @ 11:20 AM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
7 -- > lfo sounds wikkid on drums to modulate pitch/attack/decay/filter/resonance < -- suck it and see...
you need a sampler that lets you sync the lfo (every sampler has one) to midi and then patch the lfo to various parameters outlined above.. but as with anything, one sounds lfo pleasure will be another sounds lfo poison.
Message 8/12 12-Mar-01 @ 02:26 PM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
with any great and original drum groove you hear there is always a lot of velocity attention and layering of different sounds, like s20 is saying...to be original you can't just stick with say, a plain and 'untweaked' set of 909 samples...sample loads of different drums and make your own banks...then patch the LFO to filters etc...
re-sample the whole sequence from Cubase or whatever sequencer your using, convert to audio, chop up again in re-cycle, then re-sequence and keep doing the same thing til you get the desired effect which will eventually sound totally different from the original...oh and if you can be arsed...
Message 9/12 12-Mar-01 @ 03:30 PM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
Message 10/12 13-Mar-01 @ 03:44 PM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
Message 11/12 13-Mar-01 @ 05:50 PM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
some midi files of beats to look at.... either on this site, or the other 100,000 midi file sites on the net... load them into Logic and look at the structure.....
sure, it's hard finding dance midi stuff, but keyfax and others make dance midi file disks for purchase.... $30 and you're rollin' with lots of material
my d&b tracks got a groovier feel once I started using
triplet timing on my hats... see the 12step.mid
file in the DT files section...
another thing I noticed is that it doesn't take
much to make a beat skip and groove.... even ONE
extra 32nd in a row of 16th hats might just put in the shuffle you need...
I'm not the pro, but if you're making 4floor stuff, i don't think it goes too much beyond that....
starting out, I was overwriting all of my stuff....
as the jazz players say, less is more.
don't give up... especially not after only 18 months...... I tried for 3 years before I had anything worth listening to, only to realize it really wasn't worth listening to.... like any worthwhile creative activity, this stuff takes years to do, and even more years to do WELL.... so, be a masochist....
Message 12/12 14-Mar-01 @ 09:48 PM - RE: I thought we were talking about drums
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