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Subject: Slight of Band

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Original Message 1/8 11-Jun-01 @ 05:05 PM - Slight of Band

sitar

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One of the things I love about Dance Music is in the art of starting a tune which sounds like the downbeat is at one place, but then bringing in a 'missing link' that changes where the downbeat is felt. It's like a magician's slight of hand when, after placing a 7 of clubs face down on his table, he picks it back up and it's the Queen of Hearts. Last night I decided to research exactly what bands will do to create that effect. I went first to Underworld who did this many times not just to technical perfection, but poetically as well IMO. I decided to listen and then reconstruct what they did so that I would know why and how it works. Then I thought why not share this with you guys. It's from a portion of "Cups" from Underworld's album "Beaucoup Fish" You'll hear that the bass and organ are slightly different although close and that the drums samples of the Xbase that I d/l'd from Dancetech. The hat sounds different. Please have a listen. Click view user. It's in my profile.

So I found that the key to the rhythmic effect they used is that the bass and hat start off and you naturally feel that they are starting on the downbeat of 1. Then the kick and snare come in and things feel tight but suddenly not so slid as to how you might dance to this thing. Then comes the organ with it's chords being played. It's the organ that is the missing link. It pulls everything into place. It's then that you realize you've been duped and the bass and hat actually started on the 2nd eighth note of the bar. One factor is that if the kick is to weak in volume or the bass too strong, I don't get the feeling of the downbeat as it is meant to be felt, so dynamics can destroy the effect if not correctly set. Of course the actually song starts earlier with a pad playing some chords and morphs into a driving piece.

One more thing. The way we feel beats is all subjective and it's possible that others may feel these beats in a different way. Still, I thought that sharing this might be of interest to some. Btw, it took me about 40 minutes to listen to Cups and then reconstruct, including matching the bass and organ sounds to some degree of closeness. It's a good type of exercise I think and I certainly know how this particular rhythmic conjuring works. I might do more. I'll post them if there is interest.

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Message 2/8 11-Jun-01 @ 09:53 PM - RE: Slight of Band

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thats a DJ trick, bringing in another beat on the second deck out of sync to push the synth/bassline etc feel back to front or whatever.... basslines etc can sometimes sound much better if you take the basic midi or audio part and set the sequencer 'snap' to say 16ths and drag it around forward/back so it's different... you get suprise results & often radical new synth/bass lines!

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 3/8 11-Jun-01 @ 11:28 PM - RE: Slight of Band

sitar

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Cool. I know it's done a lot in various ways but I haven't had enough exposure to it except through a few cds. I'm doing a few of these for my own learning. Physically entering the notes in even though I'm just copying right now will nail those patterns into my head. The accidents will come along too.

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Message 4/8 12-Jun-01 @ 03:53 AM - RE: Slight of Band

influx

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Ive always loved it when someone would do that. Trickery of that sort is one of the things that impresses me most in music. It tells you that someone really thought out what theyre doing, and that they are in complete control of it all.

nice one, sitar

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Message 5/8 12-Jun-01 @ 05:01 AM - RE: Slight of Band

sitar

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Yea that's hitting the nail on the head. It shows someone thought it out first. Which is exactly what I'm not doing at the moment hitting the play button on my new Korg ER-1 and playing user arpeggios out of my XL-1

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Message 6/8 12-Jun-01 @ 11:22 AM - RE: Slight of Band

agog

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hey sitar, way to go man... i really appreciate when people reveal sonic stunts such as this..i really do- quite interesting. Im hungry for some more theory/compositional knowledge, so if its not any trouble could you post your email address? id love to ask you a few questions, and maybe get a few pointers. Ive been considering taking a rhythm/drum programming type class as well as a basic theory one- i think it should certainly prove useful in the actual arrangement aspects of production. thanks ;)

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Message 7/8 12-Jun-01 @ 03:27 PM - RE: Slight of Band

sitar

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sitarsong@worldnet.att.net

there you go

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Message 8/8 11-Jul-01 @ 02:30 PM - RE: Slight of Band

BJT

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Chem bro's do this at the start of 'Got Glint', the bass starts,
then the BD comes in on what appears to be the off beat,
in the middle of the intro they open up the gate on the bass
so that it begins to fall on the proper 8th.

Confusing the listener is under-rated, think of Doom's night (Azzidodabass),
The LFO on the Bass is on a 3/4 beat, not a beat I'd use often.
Then drums come in as below, this is sort of across b/w a 2-step and a house
beat. 2step beats emphasis is on the snare (beats 2 and 4).

SD: ---- x--- ---- x---

BD: x--- ---- x-x-- ----

But the whole thing doesn't fit untill the another Bass comes (more like a walking bass) which emphasises the 1 and 3: Notice that this bass doesn't overlap with the beat, 'xcept on these beats.

Simple but brilliant.

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